The MSNBC webite has a fascinating piece about the thesis Hillary Rodham wrote as a senior at Wellesley College in 1969. Her subject was Saul Alinsky, a radical activiist of the era. MSNBC breathlessly states that Ms. Clinton's critics view the thesis as "a 'Rosetta Stone,' in the words of one, that would allow readers to decode the thinking of the former first lady and 2008 presidential candidate." I think most of Hillary's serious critics are more likely to see the thesis as a window into the thinking of a very bright 21-year old, in the context of the student radicalism of the day. As one who was part of that culture, the thesis strikes me as fairly thoughtful and tame by that low standard. Although Hillary apparently attempted to limit access to her thesis, I suspect she's secretly relieved that she didn't write "Ho Chi Minh -- Agrarian Reformer" or "The U.S. Army -- Genghis Khan Revisited."
The MSNBC piece speculates that Hillary's thesis will be used to "Swiftvet" her. But precisely because, unlike Mr. Swiftvet reporting for duty, she didn't push a "Genghis Khan" type thesis, I don't see real vulnerability here. Any vulnerability will derive from the radicalism that Hillary continued to display for many years after she wrote her thesis on Alinsky. For a bit more on the subject, visit Power Line.
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 4)
31. Wow wow wow....somebody hasn't been keeping up on statistics!
Just because Christians are the most vocal, doesn't mean they outnumber other religions in this country. While someone was moralizing, the diversity of multiple other religions has proliferated.
Vernella at 4:41PM on Mar 4th 2007
32. I am unable to be a candidate in '08 but I might go for it in '12.
I would pick George Strait for my running mate. It would be wonderful to have Shultz/Strait in '08 but it can't be.
George is a real working cowboy that knows what it is like to work your way up in life without depending on everyone lese other than God and yourself. He is a solid family man.
I was raised by a single/widowed Mom in a small town. I have been blue collar, white collar, management and labor.
I have served in three branches of the military from Viet Nam through Desert Storm 1. No, no purple hearts but a USAF Commendation medal and an Army Achievement Medal.
I was voted most likely to be in jail in High School and graduated 55/57 of my academic class but graduated in the top ten percent of my college class. I now preach in the jail.
I was the only philosophical hippie in my blue collar town and Friday nights were often beat up the hippie night. I am now very Conservative.
I grew up in a Democratic home with a velvet Elvis and JFK tapestry on the same wall. I am now a Republican mainly because a third party will never win until one of the two major parties is totally defeated. Check the history. That is the only way it works. Vote for a third party and you will get the party of your nightmares.
I grew up in a Liberal denomination but believed that Christ was an alien. I am now a Baptist preacher.
I grew up across the creek from the only Black family in town and he and I ate at each other's homes and hung out util he met some radicals from another town. My current church is very ethnically diverse.
I have lived in the SE, NE and now the SW.
I think Mr. Strait and I represent the country far more than all the rich kids and lawyers we have been electing. In fact, if you can get Richard Petty to run than a Petty-Strait in '08 ticket will be the best you can find. I will defer to them and wait until 16 to run.
Dr. Ronald Shultz at 5:47PM on Mar 4th 2007
33. So what? She wrote a thesis in college that does or doesn't apply to her views at this time. Give me a break.
Dormanica at 7:16PM on Mar 4th 2007
34. For more information regarding Hillary's past and present, please read "Hell to Pay" by Barbara Olson. Keep in mind that all the facts are referenced at the end of each chapter. I cannot recall Hillary ever challenging the facts in this book. Think about it!
Jean Bauer at 8:14PM on Mar 4th 2007
35. I like the comment about not neutering the "christian USA" that we have today by letting a bunch of atheists do so.
What happened to " A nation for the people, by the people?"
If the people inhabiting the land are jews,muslims,hindus and all types of religions, doesn't that call for a nation that caters to them as well?
After all they are people of this nation.
If they vote and pay taxes, they are citizens.
Why should I be forced to swallow Christian Values?
Why should anyone be forced to swallow anyone's religious value system?
This country was founded because a certain group of English people wanted to be able to practice their religion without Government Interference.
Regardless of what references you make to what party and such, That is a fact.
So why should that be different today?
Why should the USA be based on Christian principles alone if the sole reason this country exists was in fact the very opposite of what you state or wish for.
You also have a clear misconception of what our country is about.
Its about one thing.
Money.
Read the defination of "capitalize", as this is a Capitalist nation.
I think the ABUSE of religion to gain money is what people fail to see in our country.
Our elected officials use your religious values to gain your vote, shake your hand while the other one is being filled with The one thing that runs our country and that is special interest money.
But again
Money.
The special interest groups run this country by paying off the politicians that lie to you daily about what they are doing for you.
You all sit back and blog and watch television and think you know what's going on.
I think maybe if you just came back from Iraq you might have a point about the war, but until you do, you really don't know anything other than propeganda that is being fed to you at dinner time.
It's all a system that is set in place to get your money.
It's like Las Vegas. An immoral place where no one stands a chance at winning or making change, but are given grand illusions that they can do so.
The biggest problem with the people in this country is communication.
Everyone fights like they are 5 years old.
It's always one against the other.
That's why the prisons are full and it's difficult to find a job unless you follow them to china or india where they've been shipped off to.
Everyone sits here and debates AGAINST each other and it solves ABSOLETLY NOTHING!
Who cares if so and so " has a point".
Is it changing the world?
No.
So while you all waste your time bickering over Hillary's College thesis and religion, remember this
You are doing nothing but wasting time and proving that America is ready for great change.
If you cannot come to an agreement, that change my result in it's final dissolution one day.
You can say what say, but until people can actually get along to SOLVE the problems in this country regardless of their religious beliefs,
You are doing nothing but showing a great example of the problems that exist in America today.
And the problems would be not what you present, but how you are presenting it and the constant battle between the right side and the left side that is solving nothing.
I think if people weren't so simple minded as to think of a country as righ† and left, they might actually get something accomplished instead of being part of the problem.
Isiah Baruch Cohen at 8:44PM on Mar 4th 2007
36. I tend not to argue with the "other side". They are usually closed-minded and don't listen anyway. I will let Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh do my speaking for me.
Hillary is so far off the scale left....she could never speak for the majority of Americans. I dare say that 10% of Americans don't feel the way she does. We don't need a "Village" to raise children. We need responsible parents. Ones who will take control of their kids and teach respect and manners. I have five well mannered children with one on the way. I think that I know what I am talking about. We don't need more rights for convicted fellons. They need to be imprisoned in tent camps without TV and weight rooms. They need to feel the consequences of their actions.
With regard to Jimmy Carter.....he was the worst President we ever had. He won't debate the arguments that his book spews with anyone who could set him straight. He is a money making scam artist just like the Democrat Presidents who followed him.
David Mares at 10:19PM on Mar 4th 2007
37. Wow, is all this simple salesman can say! This all started from my posting #3 in reference... to the thesis of Hillary. All have responded in a most positive manner. While I cannot remember all the names...thank's to all! Reviewing the recent...
Sarah I ask for you to go back and look at your posting. Who are you.. to judge? You did. Why?
Jenny, I must ask, why do you leave it up to the "children" in the second grade.. to choose?
Laurie, some "common sense"... issues may have crossed the line.
I come from an industry... trying to "shoot" each other in the foot...why is America doing the same thing? We all have much in common.
Blair Hess Jr. at 10:16PM on Mar 4th 2007
38. Hey K Gar, don’t beat around the bush here,tell us which party you follow like a brain dead zombie. ‘Murderous, Adultering, Pig”? What in the world are the adjectives you use for our present chimp-in-chief and future war criminal if that’s what you call a basically good man with a big heart who made one admittedly big mistake 40 years ago? Perhaps your God only forgives those who hate and have subpar IQs. Jimmy Carter “the single most dangerous man to ever sit in the Oval Office?” Really? You do read the papers these days, right?
Since most posts on here have left the topic far behind, I’d like to add to something everybody loves to quote but seem to have no clue what it’s actually saying - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." It doesn’t say “Christian religion”. And for quoting founding fathers for their religious beliefs, every time I see Jefferson and Franklin mentioned I have to chuckle since there is a version of the bible known as the Jefferson bible which is one where all mention of divinity, miracles, and ridiculous statements (talking donkies, Noah’s ark, staying alive in a fish’s belly for 72 hours, the sun standing still etc) and the immaculate conception are removed. TJ made the first one himself with a pair of scissors and two bibles. Men like Paine, Madison and Franklin made Jefferson look like an evengelist. Quotes from these men are like scriptures in the bible – anyone who wants to justify their position can cherry pick the ones that work for them. I’ll just supply a few that support a different point of view. Jefferson wrote that he considered the Book of Revelation ‘”merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherence of our own nightly dreams.” James Madison was a key figure in the adoption of the United States Constitution and later, President. In 1785 he wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments: "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."Franklin in his autobiography, “Some books against Deism fell into my hands. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short I soon became a perfect Deist."Thomas Paine in Age of Reason,” "The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.” Just to pick four at random.
We never hear about the fact that throughout his presidency, Jefferson refused to sign any bill that called for a national day of prayer and thanksgiving, saying that the presidency was intended for civil purposes only. Nor do we hear much about the Barbary Treaty signed in Tripoli on Nov. 4, 1796, approved by President John Adams, and ratified by the United States Senate which was largely made up of the same men who worked on the Constitution. One of the articles in it begins. “As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion….” There was no national uproar or denunciations or even debate; it was ratified unanimously by the Senate.
That this is a nation made up mostly of Christians I obviously can’t argue with, that is what intended to be a Christian nation, the facts say otherwise. Thomas Jefferson in his autobiography - "[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom ... was finally passed,...a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination." -- Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
Religion has not been removed from our schools; there is in fact more religious freedom than ever, but it’s freedom for all religions not just Christians ones, which I’m sure is what everybody is actually ticked about. Children are able to pray quietly at any time, and are even able to meet after school as a religous group; the only restriction is that the school district or local and state governments cannot mandate group prayer or allegiance to the christian god and make Moslem children, Hindu children or “infidel’ children pray to a god they believe is not theirs. How leveling the playing field so all religions get treated as equals becomes an attack on Christianity only a Christian can understand, I sure can’t. To say our laws were based on the Ten Commandments is equally absurd – the only two that coincide are murder and stealing and I would suggest they are pretty much universal and prohibitions against both were in force in all civilizations long before Jesus was even a glimmer in God’s eye. Our law system is actually based on Englands civil law system. Neither that set of law nor ours makes coveting our neighbor’s possssions and/or wife a crime, and a good thing for most Americans.
I have no quarrel with anyone’s religion (my father has been a minister for 50 years – and yes, we get along fine: we just don’t talk about religion.) but I abhor those who’d make their beliefs mine. I don’t try to convert people to ‘infidelism”, I only request others show me the same courtesy.
It’s my opinion fundamentalists who revise history, seem to believe Jesus was a Republican, and would drag us back to the day when things were more like they believe they should be --- white males were ‘it’, women didn’t even think of coming out of their man’s shadow, everybody knew their place and child abuse, otherwise known as not sparing the rod was not only acceptable, it was applied for any infraction from being grumpy to wetting the bed – these “American values” and the small-mindedness, intolerance, prejudice and arrogance that goes with them are the things that are ruining this country. Don’t expect all of us to remain apathetic if you insist on cramming “American values, beliefs and morality” (i.e. your values, beliefs and morality) down the nation’s throat. If you’ve got a problem with the nation our founding fathers created, move to another one.
And oh yes, the topic of all this – as another posted earlier. Saul Alinksy was a good man who fought a good fight for workers and the powerless throughout his life. How in the world anyone would use a thesis on the man as a case against Hillary Clinton boggles the mind. The man was what America should be about for crying out loud. The fact it’s even considered a cause for debate says way too much about where certain groups of this country are coming from.
Mike at 10:41PM on Mar 4th 2007
39. Will Rogers once said that the country will get on despite the politicians and the collective common sense of the American people will prevail. Mark Twain would add that "Man is the only animal that walks around embarrassed, or needs to be." Perhaps, it would behoove the American public to sit back and watch these professional comedians of American politics entertain their egos and amuse their respective parties. The American people as voters in general have on the most part have had short memories in the voting boothes, apathy is somewhat of a major commodity, but a good joke is always appealing to the majority of all people everywhere. Think of all the humorists we send to our respective state, local and federal representative bodies. Every time we have the campaigns, it seems we see those elements of the human condition that Shakespeare would be froth to amuse us in any several of his works. Oh, good Will, much overtime would you have now. I remain,
Sincerely yours,
Bruce M. Pierce
Bruce M. Pierce at 1:23AM on Mar 6th 2007
40. I would rather hunt (and I don't) with Vice President Cheney than drive with Bloated Ted Kennedy.
He seriously should have gone to prison. Spineless drunk. I wish Massoftwoshits (Kerry and Bloaty) would secede and fall into the ocean.
slawdawg23 at 12:39PM on Mar 9th 2007
41. WOW....can we get back to some.. "common sense issues"? .. that relate to all parties?. Correct your Children (in fear?).. Partial birth abortions? Remove the words.. "Under God We Trust".. from our currency?.. Re-define the definitian of Marriage? Remove.. what is "etched in stone" from our Federal buildings and court houses?
Let's keep it. "back to basics"...and stop shooting each other in the foot. Most of those above issues should fall into a ..."common sense"..no need to discuss...unite this great land... attitude!
Blair Hess Jr. at 12:38AM on Mar 5th 2007
42. People need to start acting more civil about this. Politics brings out the immaturity in so many people. My views on several issues
Homosexuality - I've never had a serious problem with any gay or lesbian person I've ever met, but there was one thing I noticed about all of them: They all were angry at the world or had insecurity issues. In my experience I don't believe homosexuality is genetic or stems from our biology, I believe it is a cry to fit in to some category or some place. The other thing is, straight people don't walk around trying to let everyone know they are straight. Every gay person I've ever met makes sure that everyone knows very well. And if anyone wants to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm in theatre, trust me, I've met a good number of gay people.
War - Our country and this world has become so fake, with it's politics and it's politicians. WWII is glorified for it's greatness and ridding the world of Fascism and then Vietnam is condemned because of peace movements and such. Iraq is the same way. I'm not saying that I have all the info, but the facts are, if I do it's pretty probable that most the general public doesn't either. I feel as though the media is the reason why all of this turned out glorified or condemned. Either way, I believe what ever our intentions, we have removed evil from this world and that is never something to be condemned.
Abortion - Why are we fighting for animal rights as animals are people too in California when we won't give rights to our unborn children. Can you honestly say that should your mother have deemed it not a good time to have you that she would have aborted you, that you will say it's okay she was practicing her rights? Last time I checked it wasn't legal for someone to infrindge on anyone elses right to live. I went to the bodies exhibit that recently toured Seattle, and the baby that first looks like a real baby is 9 weeks old. The age that abortion is still legal is 24 weeks, a totally alive human being. Choose life, your mom did.
Global Warming - What does it matter? Hydrogen powered cars need fossil fuels. Bio-diesel would overcome our produce economy, and hybrids would be better if they worked off of only electricity. The way I see it, no one has come up with a good way to solve it, and the best plans we have would cost billions of dollars for not much of a big change. The only way to solve this problem is to get car companies to endorse research in solar power or other such energies and convince everyone in the world to start being more Conscientious. Because the fact is, are you still driving your car?
Daniel at 1:48AM on Mar 5th 2007
43. Hillary Clinton and Jane Fonda have a lot in common. There main weakness is that is that they can not fool intelligent people.
Charles Finley at 6:33AM on Mar 5th 2007
44. Mike.....
I am not sure what "America" you live in, but I don't ever want to be there. To say that Saul Alinksy is a great man because he backed the worker and powerless?? This man was a radical troublemaker like so many of the more current ones. He loves to hear himself speak and loves the media attention. The people that he was "so called" helping could have helped themselves. I don't depend on anyone for my well being. I don't need Government giving me anything. Too many people now days are looking for handouts. Government is too big already. Like I said before...we don't need a village. We need a good foundation built by parents who care about their kids and will take the time to teach them how to care for themselves. I didn't get to where I am by laying in a gutter and waiting for someone to come by and drag me to a better existance. I did it on my own. The likes of Saul Alinksy should not be exalted or written about in high regard. They should be treated like a disease and quarantined from a functional society.
David Mares at 5:24PM on Mar 5th 2007
45. Can anyone say "Fair and Balanced,"? Although the tagline for this comment refers to a different new source, with less than accurate or credible news, it does seem to fit this story.
Who cares what Mrs. Clinton's thesis was in College. People's perspectives and opinions change with time; kinda like the weather. It is a substantial waste of time looking at an individual so long ago, when the issues that need attention today go sparingly covered and reported on.
Please desist from your craneo-rectal inversion and stop acting like Fox News.
humbe at 3:36PM on Mar 5th 2007