Yesterday I debated Robert Spencer at the Conservative Political Action Committee annual conference in Washington D.C. The debate was aired live on C-Span. Our topic was essentially, Is Islam the Problem? My book The Enemy at Home says no, locating the problem in the way that liberal foreign policy and liberal values projected abroad have strengthened radical Islam and emboldened it to attack us. Spencer's books collectively answer yes, the problem is with Islam itself.
But Islam has been around for 1300 years and the problem of Islamic terrorism is a recent one. How can Islam be to blame? For me the intelligent question is: what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of a certain kind of fanaticism and terrorism?
Spencer iwill have none of it. He is part of an influential strain of conservatives who blame the teachings and practice of Islam for producing Islamic terrorism. Since the terrorists do what they do on behalf of Islam, Islam must be the source of their convictions and therefore Islam needs to be examined, denounced and reformed. This is how Spencer thinks we can win the war on terror: by demanding that Muslims stop practicing Islam as it has been practiced since Muhammad.
In arguing his thesis Spencer locates all the violent verses in the Koran and all the hideous deeds performed by Islamic conquerors, especially in their early centuries of irredentist expansion. Then he links these to the words and actions of Khomeini, Bin Laden and today's Islamic radicals. Spencer is an effective polemicist.
But his historical argument is dubious. It emphasizes violent passages in the Koran, while downplaying the passages that urge peace and goodwill. It applies a moral standard to Islamic empires (they didn't give minorities full rights! they reduced Jews and Christians to second class citizens!) that certainly could not be met by the Roman empire or the empires established by the Portuguese, the Spanish, the French and the British. In the Spain of Ferdinand and Isabella, for example, Jews had three choices: convert to Christianity, leave the country, or be killed. No Muslim empire legislated or systematically enforced such a policy toward its religious minorities. Yes, the Koran says "slay the infidels" but no Muslim empire actually did that. For example the Muslims ruled North India for two centuries before they were displaced by the British. The Mughal emperors could have killed the tens of millions of Hindus under their control or at least forced them to become Muslims? They did nothing of the sort.
Spencer glibly jumps over entire centuries in linking, say, the savagery of the Ottomans in Constantinople with the savagery of Hezbollah in Lebanon or the Taliban in Afghanistan. How different is Spencer's one-sided reading of Islam from, say, the works of historian Bernard Lewis. Lewis is hardly uncritical of Islam. But he knows that world, speaks the local languages, and exhibits in his work a nuance, judiciousness and balance that, alas, I don't find in Spencer or other conservative Islamophobes.
It is Bin Laden's argument that radical Islam is true Islam. It is Bin Laden's contention that he is doing nothing more than what is commanded in the Koran and the Islamic tradition. And Robert Spencer essentially agress with Bin Laden! Spencer is willing to concede one of the world's great religions--one with more than a billion adherents worldwide--to the murderers of Al Qaeda. At one point in our CPAC debate he asked me to name a traditional Muslim, as if such a creature scarcely exists in the world.
Do we really want to go to war with a billion Muslims? If not, is it realistic to approach the Muslim world with the premise that the only good Muslim is a non-Muslim? Don't all these Western attacks on Islam and the Koran and Muhammad, not to mention Spencer's agreement with Bin Laden that Islam mandates violence and terrorism, have the effect of alienating traditional Muslims and pushing them toward the radical camp? These are my questions for Spencer, and for other conservatives who follow the same line. It's time, I would urge these good folks, to reconsider some basic assumptions. Unfortunately you are part of the reason we are losing this war of ideas.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 5)
16. D'Souza was schooled by Spencer yesterday at the CPAC "debate." Do we want war with a billion Muslims? No, but I guess that's up to them.
Dave at 12:18PM on Mar 2nd 2007
17. I guess those decadent Thais deserve the Muslim terror in Southern Thailand. Ditto the Phillipines. D'Souza has a book to sell, even if this thesis doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
John Sobieski at 12:28PM on Mar 2nd 2007
18. Response to #6:
ANY place in the world where there is trouble"???
You may not find Islamic ties, but you will always find COMMUNIST TIES!
Brian at 12:31PM on Mar 2nd 2007
19. D'Souza asks "But Islam has been around for 1300 years and the problem of Islamic terrorism is a recent one. How can Islam be to blame? ... what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of a certain kind of fanaticism and terrorism?
Oh, about a trillion dollars a year in oil profits that the west (+Japan) has been funding its own attackers. When the countries where this (almost) free money pours in are ruled by amoral savages,
jihad is what you get. Before oil money the savages couldn't afford jihad. And of course, their backward (and getting backwarder) civilizations (using the term loosely) have historically provided only enough funding for them to mutilate each other and never mount a serious attack on real civilizations no matter how those civilizations impugned islam.
How long does it take for some people to realize Mr. Johnson's law? When those in power got there by being the most ruthless and power-hungry, how can you be surprised that, upon acquiring adequate financing, they turn their attention from savaging their own populations to savaging yours?
Roja at 12:36PM on Mar 2nd 2007
20. Islamic terrorism has been around for as long as the muslim religion has been practiced. The U.S.'s first encounter with muslim terrorists was in early in the life of our country. The muslims were terrorising the entire Mediterranean area by kidnapping merchant seaman and holding them for ransom. The recent publicity regarding a muslim elected official using Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Koran was sheds some light on the issue. He obtained the copy of this book to better understand his enemy. His conclusion was that force of arms was the only clear solution. The Europeans had been paying bribes for years and the demands only came for more. Just as Jimmie Carter's failure to respond to the takeover of the Iranian embassy led to future attacks based on theior perception of our weakness.
To blame the current probelm with muslims on George Bush and the Israeli's is to ignore the entire histoy of the muslim cult. Believing that there are "moderate muslims" simply means you have ben duped by their constant barrage of propaganda. what the so called "moderate muslims" say in public and what they say in private are in direct contradiction. We have seen and heard the tapes of the "moderate muslims" speeches when they didn't think they were being recorded.
The muslims want to revert to 11th century feudalism. It is amazing that they get so much support from the left in this country. They oppose abortion, gays and any sort of women's rights. We must also keep in midn that slavery is also considered ok by muslims as long as thew slaves are non-muslims.
Frank at 12:42PM on Mar 2nd 2007
21. it is so obvious that the teachings of islam are the problem. right now almost every conflict in the world involves muslims
glenn at 12:42PM on Mar 2nd 2007
22. Bagdad, Iraq was the home for 2700 yrs for jews. Now there are 22 left.
Biblically, Iran and Iraq were the home of the garden of Eden, and the story of Purim. From the time of WWII to 1980's, Iraqi jews were publicly hung, murdered in their homes, sent away in exile, and lost everything, their homes, schools and wordly possessions. Hitler even met with the head of Iraq in the 30's to come up with a systematic plan for the common fabricated enemy to Germans and arabs, the jews. Since Islam is only about 1500+ yrs old, much younger than judiasm and christianity it's merely a copy cat religion. The idea of arabs and muslims treating jews or anyone different from them in their homelands "fairly" is bogus. They tolerate their economic contribution and when things get so bad because they oppress thoughts, ideas and growth, they blame the "infidels" instead of looking at their own backward culture for discontent among them. Then they rally against the jews or christians or buddhists, and fill their own people with thoughts of hatred and murder to detract from the real issues.
Wealthy muslims take advantage of westernization and our contributions, and then blame us for everything, what hypocrites. Under those long dresses of the wealthiest arab muslim women are the richest of western clothes.
I'm tired of the BS that espouses from the fundamentalist muslims and more tired of the supposed moderates who say and do nothing.
keren at 1:12PM on Mar 2nd 2007
23. This Jihad is the product of USA. It all started with Russia Invaded Afghanistan. We used Afghan People to kick Russian out. Those people were called freedom fighters. But they believed they were doing the Jihad and may be that was real Jihad. After those jihadies kicked Russia out of Afghanistan. This became recent win of jihadies after 100's of years. It only encouraged them that Jihad can be successful in these times when Technology devolved countries were thinking they can take over any country.
To make the things worse , Then USA left Afghanistan after Russia got out. Those people we called freedom fighters they started to miss the fun they had fighting Russia and they turned against USA for few reasons . Our support to Israel and not to Palestine and Our influence in OIL rich Arab Countries.
They did 9-11
We went into Afghanistan to kill them but instead we left Afghanistan for Oil rich Iraq.
Now those Talibans and Al-Qaida once created for russia is coming back . Blame goes to USA for that as we have unfinished war in Afghanistan. Blaming Pakistan is stupid.
One should laugh when USA tells Pakistan if you do not kill talibans we will do it. Muslims are laughing that USA is getting azz kicked out in Iraq now they want their azz kicked out in Afghanistan and Pakistan remote Area's .
If it is not so easy for USA to kill extremist how do you think Pakistan can do it?
Yes Pakistan can do it with the help of USA not with the hate of USA towards Pakistan. We need Pakistan's help so better shut our bad mouth for Pakistan and cooperate with them.
Ali at 1:15PM on Mar 2nd 2007
24. Well, the fact is that Muslims are not as evolved as Christians and Jews. We went through our evil time periods too. And The Fact is, today we can't deal with this savage people. They put their religion above their country.
In Short, All Jawa's should be taken out back and executed if they don't comply to US standards.
The Truth at 1:16PM on Mar 2nd 2007
25. Bagdad, Iraq was the home for 2700 yrs for jews. Now there are 22 left.
Biblically, Iran and Iraq were the home of the garden of Eden, and the story of Purim. From the time of WWII to 1980's, Iraqi jews were publicly hung, murdered in their homes, sent away in exile, and lost everything, their homes, schools and wordly possessions. Hitler even met with the head of Iraq in the 30's to come up with a systematic plan for the common fabricated enemy to Germans and arabs, the jews. Since Islam is only about 1500+ yrs old, much younger than judiasm and christianity it's merely a copy cat religion. The idea of arabs and muslims treating jews or anyone different from them in their homelands "fairly" is bogus. They tolerate their economic contribution and when things get so bad because they oppress thoughts, ideas and growth, they blame the "infidels" instead of looking at their own backward culture for discontent among them. Then they rally against the jews or christians or buddhists, and fill their own people with thoughts of hatred and murder to detract from the real issues.
Wealthy muslims take advantage of westernization and our contributions, and then blame us for everything, what hypocrites. Under those long dresses of the wealthiest arab muslim women are the richest of western clothes.
I'm tired of the BS that espouses from the fundamentalist muslims and more tired of the supposed moderates who say and do nothing.
keren at 1:29PM on Mar 2nd 2007
26. Islamic Jihad is at war in:
(1) Thailand (Buddhist)
(2) Israel (Jews)
(3) Lebanon (Christians)
(4) Southern Russia (Christian)
(5) Balkins (Christian)
(6) Sudan (Animest, Christian)
(7) Ethiopia (Christian)
(8) Southern Nigeria (Christian, Animest)
(9) Philippines (Christian)
(10) Kashmir and India (Hindu)
Also severe opression in Islamic countries of minorities in places like Indonesia (Christian and Hindu), Iran (Zoroastrian, Christian, Jewish), Egypt (Christian) etc. Also note that the slave trade out of Africa that is going on right now is run by arab muslims.
All these conflicts have one thing in common which is not culture but that Islam is at war with those that do not practice the faith. It is a religious duty of muslim to take part in jihad. No other faith has a direct order for this kind of action. Yes Christians and Jews have waged war for religion but no where within their religious book can you find this direct order. If you want to tackle a problem you need to find its source and speak the truth.
Ian Jones at 1:30PM on Mar 2nd 2007
27. The problem is not Islam, it is the entire spectrum of concrete (in contrast to contemplative) relgion. The concrete forms of Islam have been the subject to extended critique by the contemplative Islamic tradition of Sufism, where in concrete Islam's more extreme adherents have been refered to as "Donkeys with Turbins" to show their stubborness and stupidity in their beliefs.
Foolish consistency, inability to adapt to changes and concrete faith in all faiths world wide, particularly in Islam and Christinaity, can be seen as the greatest overall danger to human survival at this moment in time. They transform powerful visions of transcendence into clubs to batter those who disagree and sword to kill those not subdued.
With regard to the original article your characterization of the Moghul Empire's attitude towards the Hindu inhabitants of their region seems more then a little rose tinted. The destruction and desecration of Hindu religious sites under the Islamic invasion was staggering. One of the holiest Shivalinga of the area was cut into bricks and transformed into pavement so that it might be desecrated at all times by those who walked upon it. Yet the Moghul from the time of Akbar and his "Din-i-Ilahi" in 1581 CE onwards hardly qualified as Islamic in the strict sense as their faith combined elements of Islam, Sufism, Zoroastorianism, Christianity and Hinduism.
Patrick F. Brady at 1:32PM on Mar 2nd 2007
28. Aminest = Aminist
Which is native African faiths.
Ian Jones at 1:33PM on Mar 2nd 2007
29. to any religious, god created and embeded his will on everything,so the time will come depending on his (god) willing. On the general, one can not take the life ( suicide ) by itself except god.
On the otherhand, anyone get suicide or take their own life, after the die, they will become satan evil, because before they kill them self, their soul in deep of hatre and revenge (just like very sick soul), when a suicide people die, their spirit
was broken in so many pieces, that soul live in a darkness for so long, very very hard to become aweken again, and the spirit will live in that situation for may be a hundred years, few thousands years, that spirit we call ghost, satan or whatever...
So, the only way to live as a human life, we have
to celerated life as a happiness, great gift from
god give to us.
This is just a question ask for you: did prophet Mohamed took his ownn life,his wife took her own life, his son took his own life and go to haven? did prophet Mohamed OF islam teach people kill them self like killing sheep, like animal? you have to think and give your answer before that.
thanks for all.
nhi mai at 1:35PM on Mar 2nd 2007
30. Before the time of 911 , I use to get into The Moslems Message Boards, There was no one Moslem who dint show hate for America. After 911, they changed their oppinions, to God Bless America. They know how to dance with the Rythim. Can we trust them? Read the Coran. and find out. that the infidels should dssappear. Who provoke the hatred? It is inside their soul, Their taught since they are born to think like that. When they smile, watch out.
Hashu Ortha at 1:43PM on Mar 2nd 2007