Yesterday I debated Robert Spencer at the Conservative Political Action Committee annual conference in Washington D.C. The debate was aired live on C-Span. Our topic was essentially, Is Islam the Problem? My book The Enemy at Home says no, locating the problem in the way that liberal foreign policy and liberal values projected abroad have strengthened radical Islam and emboldened it to attack us. Spencer's books collectively answer yes, the problem is with Islam itself.
But Islam has been around for 1300 years and the problem of Islamic terrorism is a recent one. How can Islam be to blame? For me the intelligent question is: what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of a certain kind of fanaticism and terrorism?
Spencer iwill have none of it. He is part of an influential strain of conservatives who blame the teachings and practice of Islam for producing Islamic terrorism. Since the terrorists do what they do on behalf of Islam, Islam must be the source of their convictions and therefore Islam needs to be examined, denounced and reformed. This is how Spencer thinks we can win the war on terror: by demanding that Muslims stop practicing Islam as it has been practiced since Muhammad.
In arguing his thesis Spencer locates all the violent verses in the Koran and all the hideous deeds performed by Islamic conquerors, especially in their early centuries of irredentist expansion. Then he links these to the words and actions of Khomeini, Bin Laden and today's Islamic radicals. Spencer is an effective polemicist.
But his historical argument is dubious. It emphasizes violent passages in the Koran, while downplaying the passages that urge peace and goodwill. It applies a moral standard to Islamic empires (they didn't give minorities full rights! they reduced Jews and Christians to second class citizens!) that certainly could not be met by the Roman empire or the empires established by the Portuguese, the Spanish, the French and the British. In the Spain of Ferdinand and Isabella, for example, Jews had three choices: convert to Christianity, leave the country, or be killed. No Muslim empire legislated or systematically enforced such a policy toward its religious minorities. Yes, the Koran says "slay the infidels" but no Muslim empire actually did that. For example the Muslims ruled North India for two centuries before they were displaced by the British. The Mughal emperors could have killed the tens of millions of Hindus under their control or at least forced them to become Muslims? They did nothing of the sort.
Spencer glibly jumps over entire centuries in linking, say, the savagery of the Ottomans in Constantinople with the savagery of Hezbollah in Lebanon or the Taliban in Afghanistan. How different is Spencer's one-sided reading of Islam from, say, the works of historian Bernard Lewis. Lewis is hardly uncritical of Islam. But he knows that world, speaks the local languages, and exhibits in his work a nuance, judiciousness and balance that, alas, I don't find in Spencer or other conservative Islamophobes.
It is Bin Laden's argument that radical Islam is true Islam. It is Bin Laden's contention that he is doing nothing more than what is commanded in the Koran and the Islamic tradition. And Robert Spencer essentially agress with Bin Laden! Spencer is willing to concede one of the world's great religions--one with more than a billion adherents worldwide--to the murderers of Al Qaeda. At one point in our CPAC debate he asked me to name a traditional Muslim, as if such a creature scarcely exists in the world.
Do we really want to go to war with a billion Muslims? If not, is it realistic to approach the Muslim world with the premise that the only good Muslim is a non-Muslim? Don't all these Western attacks on Islam and the Koran and Muhammad, not to mention Spencer's agreement with Bin Laden that Islam mandates violence and terrorism, have the effect of alienating traditional Muslims and pushing them toward the radical camp? These are my questions for Spencer, and for other conservatives who follow the same line. It's time, I would urge these good folks, to reconsider some basic assumptions. Unfortunately you are part of the reason we are losing this war of ideas.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 5)
16. The leading cause of death in the world has always been one thing RELIGION,no matter what kind ,if you don't believe in my God I will kill you .And it has always been that way in recorded history .Thank what's going is now ,the 10 and 11 century,s show the same thing as is going on now .blame it on bush ,well maybe he is a Christian but is he to blame when the Islam religion is doing this all over the world I thank not.
did bush go into Afghanistan and start this NO the Islam,s did and where we made out mistake is not helping Russian clean out the place.how long is this going to go on ,as long as we fight a civilize war the only thing these understand is death ,so lets give them that and there 72 virgins and don't waste any more men doing it back out men out and drop neutron bombs on them wait 24 hours and go in and bury the dead .
Ben Thompson at 12:03PM on Mar 2nd 2007
17. When you live in a unheated and unairconditioned Hut with dirt floors and eat with your fingers ANYPLACE has to seem better then where you are....
Johnny Rocca at 12:14PM on Mar 2nd 2007
18. D'Souza was schooled by Spencer yesterday at the CPAC "debate." Do we want war with a billion Muslims? No, but I guess that's up to them.
Dave at 12:18PM on Mar 2nd 2007
19. D'Sousa comes from India. India used to be twice the size. The other half is now called Pakistan. You are part of the problem, not the solution.
LB at 12:17PM on Mar 2nd 2007
20. Well, the fact is that Muslims are not as evolved as Christians and Jews. We went through our evil time periods too. And The Fact is, today we can't deal with this savage people. They put their religion above their country.
In Short, All Jawa's should be taken out back and executed if they don't comply to US standards.
The Truth at 1:16PM on Mar 2nd 2007
21. I guess those decadent Thais deserve the Muslim terror in Southern Thailand. Ditto the Phillipines. D'Souza has a book to sell, even if this thesis doesn't hold up under scrutiny.
John Sobieski at 12:28PM on Mar 2nd 2007
22. it is so obvious that the teachings of islam are the problem. right now almost every conflict in the world involves muslims
glenn at 12:42PM on Mar 2nd 2007
23. Response to #6:
ANY place in the world where there is trouble"???
You may not find Islamic ties, but you will always find COMMUNIST TIES!
Brian at 12:31PM on Mar 2nd 2007
24. D'Souza asks "But Islam has been around for 1300 years and the problem of Islamic terrorism is a recent one. How can Islam be to blame? ... what is it about Islam today that has made it an incubator of a certain kind of fanaticism and terrorism?
Oh, about a trillion dollars a year in oil profits that the west (+Japan) has been funding its own attackers. When the countries where this (almost) free money pours in are ruled by amoral savages,
jihad is what you get. Before oil money the savages couldn't afford jihad. And of course, their backward (and getting backwarder) civilizations (using the term loosely) have historically provided only enough funding for them to mutilate each other and never mount a serious attack on real civilizations no matter how those civilizations impugned islam.
How long does it take for some people to realize Mr. Johnson's law? When those in power got there by being the most ruthless and power-hungry, how can you be surprised that, upon acquiring adequate financing, they turn their attention from savaging their own populations to savaging yours?
Roja at 12:36PM on Mar 2nd 2007
25. The notion that Islamic terrorism is a modern occurrance is wrong. The word assassin comes from the Islamic Guild of Assassins, which grew to be so powerful that they held lands and estates much like the Christian Knights Templar. They operated much like Murders Inc. or contract killers for political or economic interests that could pay the fee.
They were destroyed as a political force by the invasion of the Mongols in the 13th century.
Bush has united them as never before, his policies have resulted in an Iraqi holocaust. You really think after the deaths of 600,000 Iraqi's and the creation of 2.5 million refugees they are going to turn around and love us for enabling them to have a few elections? Espicially since the motivation for the invasion were trumped up lies. Bush has created a terrorist threat to this nation for a long as their memory exists.
Dale Freeman at 4:15PM on Mar 2nd 2007
26. Dinesh, you didn't even address Spencer's points. Essentially what theological basis do Muslims have for being only 'traditional' and what theological basis is there that says that Bin Laden is the wrong Islam?
Jack at 3:35PM on Mar 7th 2007
27. Bagdad, Iraq was the home for 2700 yrs for jews. Now there are 22 left.
Biblically, Iran and Iraq were the home of the garden of Eden, and the story of Purim. From the time of WWII to 1980's, Iraqi jews were publicly hung, murdered in their homes, sent away in exile, and lost everything, their homes, schools and wordly possessions. Hitler even met with the head of Iraq in the 30's to come up with a systematic plan for the common fabricated enemy to Germans and arabs, the jews. Since Islam is only about 1500+ yrs old, much younger than judiasm and christianity it's merely a copy cat religion. The idea of arabs and muslims treating jews or anyone different from them in their homelands "fairly" is bogus. They tolerate their economic contribution and when things get so bad because they oppress thoughts, ideas and growth, they blame the "infidels" instead of looking at their own backward culture for discontent among them. Then they rally against the jews or christians or buddhists, and fill their own people with thoughts of hatred and murder to detract from the real issues.
Wealthy muslims take advantage of westernization and our contributions, and then blame us for everything, what hypocrites. Under those long dresses of the wealthiest arab muslim women are the richest of western clothes.
I'm tired of the BS that espouses from the fundamentalist muslims and more tired of the supposed moderates who say and do nothing.
keren at 1:29PM on Mar 2nd 2007
28. Bagdad, Iraq was the home for 2700 yrs for jews. Now there are 22 left.
Biblically, Iran and Iraq were the home of the garden of Eden, and the story of Purim. From the time of WWII to 1980's, Iraqi jews were publicly hung, murdered in their homes, sent away in exile, and lost everything, their homes, schools and wordly possessions. Hitler even met with the head of Iraq in the 30's to come up with a systematic plan for the common fabricated enemy to Germans and arabs, the jews. Since Islam is only about 1500+ yrs old, much younger than judiasm and christianity it's merely a copy cat religion. The idea of arabs and muslims treating jews or anyone different from them in their homelands "fairly" is bogus. They tolerate their economic contribution and when things get so bad because they oppress thoughts, ideas and growth, they blame the "infidels" instead of looking at their own backward culture for discontent among them. Then they rally against the jews or christians or buddhists, and fill their own people with thoughts of hatred and murder to detract from the real issues.
Wealthy muslims take advantage of westernization and our contributions, and then blame us for everything, what hypocrites. Under those long dresses of the wealthiest arab muslim women are the richest of western clothes.
I'm tired of the BS that espouses from the fundamentalist muslims and more tired of the supposed moderates who say and do nothing.
keren at 1:12PM on Mar 2nd 2007
29. This Jihad is the product of USA. It all started with Russia Invaded Afghanistan. We used Afghan People to kick Russian out. Those people were called freedom fighters. But they believed they were doing the Jihad and may be that was real Jihad. After those jihadies kicked Russia out of Afghanistan. This became recent win of jihadies after 100's of years. It only encouraged them that Jihad can be successful in these times when Technology devolved countries were thinking they can take over any country.
To make the things worse , Then USA left Afghanistan after Russia got out. Those people we called freedom fighters they started to miss the fun they had fighting Russia and they turned against USA for few reasons . Our support to Israel and not to Palestine and Our influence in OIL rich Arab Countries.
They did 9-11
We went into Afghanistan to kill them but instead we left Afghanistan for Oil rich Iraq.
Now those Talibans and Al-Qaida once created for russia is coming back . Blame goes to USA for that as we have unfinished war in Afghanistan. Blaming Pakistan is stupid.
One should laugh when USA tells Pakistan if you do not kill talibans we will do it. Muslims are laughing that USA is getting azz kicked out in Iraq now they want their azz kicked out in Afghanistan and Pakistan remote Area's .
If it is not so easy for USA to kill extremist how do you think Pakistan can do it?
Yes Pakistan can do it with the help of USA not with the hate of USA towards Pakistan. We need Pakistan's help so better shut our bad mouth for Pakistan and cooperate with them.
Ali at 1:15PM on Mar 2nd 2007
30. Islamic Jihad is at war in:
(1) Thailand (Buddhist)
(2) Israel (Jews)
(3) Lebanon (Christians)
(4) Southern Russia (Christian)
(5) Balkins (Christian)
(6) Sudan (Animest, Christian)
(7) Ethiopia (Christian)
(8) Southern Nigeria (Christian, Animest)
(9) Philippines (Christian)
(10) Kashmir and India (Hindu)
Also severe opression in Islamic countries of minorities in places like Indonesia (Christian and Hindu), Iran (Zoroastrian, Christian, Jewish), Egypt (Christian) etc. Also note that the slave trade out of Africa that is going on right now is run by arab muslims.
All these conflicts have one thing in common which is not culture but that Islam is at war with those that do not practice the faith. It is a religious duty of muslim to take part in jihad. No other faith has a direct order for this kind of action. Yes Christians and Jews have waged war for religion but no where within their religious book can you find this direct order. If you want to tackle a problem you need to find its source and speak the truth.
Ian Jones at 1:30PM on Mar 2nd 2007