Notice something interesting about the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings? Atheists are nowhere to be found. Every time there is a public gathering there is talk of God and divine mercy and spiritual healing. Even secular people like the poet Nikki Giovanni use language that is heavily drenched with religious symbolism and meaning.
The atheist writer Richard Dawkins has observed that according to the findings of modern science, the universe has all the properties of a system that is utterly devoid of meaning. The main characteristic of the universe is pitiless indifference. Dawkins further argues that we human beings are simply agglomerations of molecules, assembled into functional units over millennia of natural selection, and as for the soul--well, that's an illusion!
To no one's surprise, Dawkins has not been invited to speak to the grieving Virginia Tech community. What this tells me is that if it's difficult to know where God is when bad things happen, it is even more difficult for atheism to deal with the problem of evil. The reason is that in a purely materialist universe, immaterial things like good and evil and souls simply do not exist. For scientific atheists like Dawkins, Cho's shooting of all those people can be understood in this way--molecules acting upon molecules.
If this is the best that modern science has to offer us, I think we need something more than modern science.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 27)
61. The author relies on many misperceptions about atheism to make a point which simply isn't correct.
Atheism isn't a religion, or a philosophy. It doesn't have any mechanism for offering comfort or consolation. It doesn't offer explanations of origins or morality. Those things transcend atheism and are typically addressed by philosophies and sciences.
I'm not *just* an atheist, I'm also a human being. I can feel sad about this tragedy, I can mourn the loss of life and offer consolation to the grieving - but I won't be making up stories or excuses. I won't pretend that the dead are "in a better place" or that the gunman was the tool of some evil entity.
I'll deal with reality head-on. I'll grieve the loss of life as a real loss and not rely on the wishful thinking that waters down the truth to make it easier to take.
Where are the atheists? Well, here's a blog entry from one of the atheists students at Virginia Tech. (http://gnosos.blogspot.com/2007/04/reflections-on-mourning-for-virginia.html)
Quite frankly, I think the words of this individual speak volumes and completely refute the thoughtless attack of D'Souza.
Matt Dillahunty at 4:12PM on Apr 18th 2007
62. Lynn,
I agree with what you're saying. I just wanted to give a believer's answer because it was stated that Christians always avoid the question, "Why do bad things happen?". I believe that people's mental health and physical health come into play of course, but their own active choice does too. The gunman chose to pull the trigger on all those people - he had a choice and free will to make that choice.
I also like you don't like when athletes thank God for a win. God doesn't give them a win in a basketball game! I'd much rather them say that they want to thank God for giving them the health and strength to play, not that He was the direct reason for them winning over another team.
And I agree sadly that most organized religion can seem fake and corrupt on the surface and turn MANY people off. It's like Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Christian literatly means "Christ-like" and unfortuantely that is not the impression many Christians give off.
But please don't see any religion as corrupt. One thing I hear is how it's all just a corrupt money game. Well, there are pastors like Rick Warren, who reverse tithes and gives 90% to the church for missions, charities, etc. and he lives of 10% of his income. Also my church, the Free Methodists, have an amazing well program to build wells in countries in Africa. We raised over $27,000 for the wells last year and every single penny is used strictly for wells, no fees taken out. So while many out there are smearing the name of Christ, there are just as many truly trying to live a God honoring life.
Thanks again for the reply back! I appreciate hearing different point of views like that and you have good perspective. Hope you have a great day! =)
Jacob at 4:18PM on Apr 18th 2007
63. Maybe the reason that there are no athiests is that people who dont put all thier eggs in the religeon basket dont have to come up with a reason things happen. People dont get shot because god needed them in heaven, they get shot because some people are nut jobs......explain gods reasoning for all of these people who died. Because according to the bible thumpers, there is a reason for everything. Maybe sometimes you just have to look at it as some people are just crazy. I also dont see any athiest protesting Soldiers funerals because the country allows gays.
Andrew at 4:37PM on Apr 18th 2007
64. Sandra -
I do understand and appreciate your thought. But what are your prayers going to do for any of us? We have free choice, remember? God doesn't intervene (obviously). So, why pray? Many people pray every day for the safety and happiness of their loved ones, but that doesn't secure it, does it?
You know what? I live a very loving and good life. I volunteer every week, I take care of everyone around me and of myself. In general, I'm an actively GOOD person. I don't believe that any God is going to have issue with me and how I lived my life. My God isn't a vindictive, judgemental, abusive, passive-aggressive one.
My God will show itself in the warmth, comfort, compassion and healing powers of others.
Lynn at 4:27PM on Apr 18th 2007
65. >Atheists are nowhere to be found.
Have you actually bothered to look for them? I think not.
>Every time there is a public gathering there is talk of God and divine mercy and spiritual healing.
Tragedy brings out some spiritualism. But not always. Quite a wide brush you use.
>the universe has all the properties of a system that is utterly devoid of meaning.
Define meaning. Define properties. Are you even remotely knowledgeable about science and the scientific method? I gather not, by your examples.
I don't believe in your giant sky pixie yet I have meaning in my life: my work has meaning, my family has meaning, my friends are meaningful to me. Why do you need a myth-filled book to tell you to have meaning? And where do you get off saying that atheists don't have meaning in their lives.
>as for the soul--well, that's an illusion!
Please provide evidence for the soul. Can you see it, measure it, weigh it? Is there any way to tell whether someone has a soul or not with any conceivable test? Do animals have souls and what's the difference between an animal soul and a human soul?
Your use of the word "soul" is an assertion that you don't even bother to prove.
>To no one's surprise, Dawkins has not been invited to speak to the grieving Virginia Tech community.
Why would they invite a biologist? It seems better that they would provide mental health assistance before even religious indoctrination like yours.
>What this tells me is that if it's difficult to know where God is when bad things happen,
Where was your god? Didn't bother to warn anyone or stop the shooter. Kinda useless god of yours, hmmm?
>it is even more difficult for atheism to deal with the problem of evil.
So, your contention is that your god actually deals with the problem of evil? Then why did your god allow this to happen? Hint: your god doesn't exist any more than the tooth fairy or santa claus.
>The reason is that in a purely materialist universe, immaterial things like good and evil and souls simply do not exist.
Which has nothing to do with science. Pure straw-man on your part.
>For scientific atheists like Dawkins, Cho's shooting of all those people can be understood in this way--molecules acting upon molecules.
Actually, you're wrong there. Cho's shooting all those people is wacked. Your straw-man is showing.
And, interestingly enough, Cho's family is religious. What do you make of that?
>If this is the best that modern science has to offer us, I think we need something more than modern science.
If this argument is the best you have to offer, you need to try again. Your ignorance of science and the scientific method is staggering. Why don't you pick up a science book and actually learn something?
/Q
Qwerysan at 2:51PM on May 30th 2007
66. The title of this essay is a testament (dare I use this word?) to the power of the challenge posed by Dawkins and Harris. How else to explain a sudden concern about the views held a very small percentage of people? More, those who are atheists typically are reluctant to give voice to their lack of belief, knowing full well how others will view them. Thus, atheistists hardly appear on anyone's radar screen, and yet D'Souza apparently feels compelled to strike out at them nonetheless. My guess is that he is concerned that Dawkins and Harris books are having an impact. As it turns out, sorrow, empathy and mourning are not an exclusive monopoly of theists. And, to D'Souza's surprise I guess, atheists are as capable as theists in finding meaning in life and the meaning goes beyond the silly caricature presented in this screed.
Don at 8:40AM on Apr 19th 2007
67. Dinesh, you're firing on all cyliders today!
My son is a Physics/Mathmatics major in college and he has explained to some that he would easily reject the knowledge of God if they could disprove him, but he has already experienced Him. Additionally, there are literally thousands of scientists that believe in God and Intelligent Design who argue that there is just as much if not more science for the reality of God than those who argue against Him.
dalosophy at 4:33PM on Apr 18th 2007
68. Do any of you religious types ever consider the fact that the vast majority of wars and violence are in the name of religion. How many Athiest wars have you seen? How many have died in the name of Athiesm?
Andy at 4:37PM on Apr 18th 2007
69. to those of you who ridicule Christians for believing in God, i want to ask: if i spend a lifetime believing in God and trusting Him for my salvation and i die and i'm wrong, what did i lose --- on the other hand, if you choose to spend your lifetime denying God, when you die - what have you lost?
carol at 4:36PM on Apr 18th 2007
70. Even though it was long ago, I like how old Chesterson put it (paraphrasing): "If there was no God, there would be no atheists."
Ken Berg at 4:35PM on Apr 18th 2007
71. The bodies are still warm and the Christian vultures like Mr. D'Souza already are feasting off their flesh for political gains. Then they have the gal to consider it a virtue and to excorciate atheists for not doing the same.
Maybe we're not spouting our spiel because we're too busy grieving or consoling the grieving. Unlike the vultures.
BlackBloc at 4:36PM on Apr 18th 2007
72. You're question supports the atheists' argument which would be something along the lines of "if there were an all-powerful, loving God, why would s/he permit such an awful tragedy to occur?" This is a paradox for the paradoxically endowed religious community to ponder.
Atheists, on the other hand, see that people are often horrible and cruel beyond description, and that's really all there is to it.
As for right and wrong, if you have to have a God or holy book tell you the difference between right and wrong, then I hope you don't interpret your particular book-of-truth to mean you should harm others (as many now do).
I think most atheists would agree that right and wrong exist and make sense without some God (or competing set of Gods) writing the rules. Hurting someone else is wrong; pretty much everything else is right.
AtheistsRus at 6:57AM on Apr 19th 2007
73. When God, who is purely Good, is removed (he's not allowed in schools) then we open the door for Evil. God brings peace. The Devil bring death and destruction. The fact that we don't see him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. We can't see air either, but it certainly doesn't stop us from breathing. We can't be so quick to discount what we don't understand. As for evolution...who made the ape? God is real. One day, " Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
Shirley Carter at 4:41PM on Apr 18th 2007
74. i can not believe what i just read, did you really just use this tragedy to argue your religion. of course nobody asks the athiest to come speak at Va. Tech 85% of this country thinks that the athiests are crazy. why would they want to hear from some crazy person. have you ever heard of screwed up? some people just are. there is not always an awnser for it. bad things happen. humans are just bad. it has been happening for thousands of years and god has never been there to stop it. you make it sound like athiests dont have any feelings. that something like this has no effect on them. everyone is hurt by this tragedy. god is not going to swoop down and stop the bullets and neither is science. people are inherantly bad, get used to it.
lukeslivka at 7:20PM on Apr 18th 2007
75. Wow, Denish, this Stanford thing is a lie, right? People have to have brains to get into Stanford. You must be writing to us from Stanford Community College in Montana or something. I mean, I just get done reading your idiotic comments, saying that blowing people away is part of our
"constitutional right," and now I click onto this junk. Didn't you hear about the gunman's note? Have you heard it railed against religion, amongst other things? Religion can give comfort to some people, but it can deny certain freedoms and comforts to others. Just ask women is some parts of the Middle East. Mix that up with being isolated socially from others, and you've got a dangerous combination. But enough of that. What's the mascot name for Stanford Community College, anyway? The Gaseous Weiners? The Dorks, maybe?
keepondenying at 5:11PM on Apr 18th 2007