The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
--Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden
And boy the atheists are up in arms! They're mad as hell about my post "Where is Atheism When Bad Things Happen." Many responders informed me that tragedies are normally considered a problem for religion, not atheism. Where is God when bad things happen? Yes, people, I know this. My point was that if evil and suffering are a problem for religion--and they are--they are an even bigger problem for atheism.
The reason is suggested from the quotation given above. When there is a tragedy like the one at Virginia Tech, the ones who are suffering cannot help asking questions, "Why did this have to happen?" "Why is there so much evil in the world?" "How can I possibly go on after losing my child?" And so on.
In my post I noted that Richard Dawkins had not been invited to address the mourners at Virginia Tech. Several atheists--who haven't yet lost their fundamentalist habit of reading--took this sarcastic statement literally. "So what? The Pope hasn't been invited either!" My point was that atheism has nothing to offer in the face of tragedy except C'est la vie. Deal with it. Get over it. This is why the ceremonies were suffused with religious rhetoric. Only the language of religion seems appropriate to the magnitude of tragedy. Only God seems to have the power to heal hearts in such circumstances. If someone started to read from Dawkins on why there is no good and no evil in the universe, people would start vomiting or leaving.
One clever writer informs me that atheists don't deny meaning, they simply insist that meaning is not inherent in the universe, it is created by us. Okay, pal, here's the Virginia Tech situation. Go create some meaning and share it with the rest of us Give us that atheist sermon with you in the pulpit of the campus chapel. I'm not being facetious here. I really want to hear what the atheist would tell the grieving mothers.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 10)
1. Mr. D'Souza
First, apologies for the rude behavior displayed by some atheists. I suppose that such things are inevitable in such an unfiltered medium of discussion, but it is still tragic.
You seem to be making a point about the usefulness of religion, which is debatable but nonetheless a topic that Dawkins does not dwell upon. If Dawkins makes a claim about the probability of a benevolent creator who takes pains to adjust phenomena around us, based on what we do in fact find in the world, replying that religion is useful simply misses the point.
Surely you agree that religions usefulness is not inconsistent with Dawkins question regarding the apparent absence of a kind Supernatural being during large scale and seemingly meaningless (from a values perspective) loss of human life.
Since I am sure you were aware of this, I am left confused as to why you used this as a post in a public forum. I have been impressed with your discourses with atheists. Surely your post does not meet your own high standards of logic and fairness.
Ryan at 10:27AM on Mar 5th 2008
2. 0 x 0 = god
It's just the facts!
Chris at 4:25PM on Sep 19th 2009
3. Interesting.
But isnt it also true that the atheists also have an easier time coping with tragedies like the one in VT.
As an atheist, I was horrified and saddened by the VT massacre but at the same time I did not have to ponder over Gods inabililty or unwillingness to stop the tragedy, the purpose behind the tragedy, the meaning of the tragedy etc.
As an atheist to me this tragedy is a statistical probability. I look at the world, realize they are some pyschotic people, guns, free society and I understand that such massacre can/will take place every once in a while. Scientific, statistical, rational analysis of the situation helps me to move on as I dont have to struggle with the additional baggage.
Al_Mujahid_for_debauchery at 9:18PM on Apr 19th 2007
4. you're not human d'souza. you're basically an animal
Alan at 9:33PM on Apr 19th 2007
5. My name is Dinesh D'Souza, and no one reads my blog unless I put something extremely retarded in the headline. I'm just a little geek in glasses that has nothing but feces spewing out of my mouth, that I think other people want to read. I have never been laid because I have no penis, it's just an empty space down there.
Lindsay at 9:39PM on Apr 19th 2007
6. //Only the language of religion seems appropriate to the magnitude of tragedy. Only God seems to have the power to heal hearts in such circumstances.//
...Or perhaps the vast majority of people in that area are religious and would expect religious sermons to be made...duh...
// I really want to hear what the atheist would tell the grieving mothers.//
Any atheist would probably say the same thing as any decent human would say. "I feel for your loss/you have my deepest sympathies/we all stand in support of you". What else would anyone say? Why bother trying to find meaning in an obviously random shooting?
You know what? I think that you're just scared shitless because you've seen by example in the VT shooting that horribe things DO happen randomly and without warning.
Gary at 10:20PM on Apr 19th 2007
7. Dear Danish,
Atheists offer the same thing to the bereaved that the religious do: empathy, condolences, and help. Our responses aren't ritualistic, and may sound more like this: "I'm sorry this happened to your ( ). I, too, have lost a ( ) but it can't be as bad as your loss. If you need someone to listen or help with ( ) I'm here for you." It's helpful and honest and we don't have to refer to an invisible, benevolant, omniscient creator who apparently likes to create mass-murderers. And it's cross-religious and cross-cultural!
Sincerely,
Bear-claw
lil_turk at 10:02PM on Apr 19th 2007
8. Wow. Does Stanford know about your growing mental illness? Word escape my anger and frustration at this post - the ignorance that is you is colossal. If someone want to read a really good response to this garbage, check out the the top recommended post as DailyKos right now. It will help reaffirm your belief in intelligence on earth after reading the crap D'Souza is spouting.
Eric Thut at 10:10PM on Apr 19th 2007
9. You know, I think there is something very evil about someone who uses tragedies like this to pursue a narrow sectarian attack on honest people.
I fully expect that if there is a God she will punish Dinesh D'Souza for this inhuman action. Surely, if he really believed in God he would not have taken this evil action for fear of the consequences.
Ken at 10:10PM on Apr 19th 2007
10. We (Atheists) offer hugs, condolences, someone to talk to, a shoulder to cry on, and support in general. We don't offer religious sermons, nor do we need them.
Christians on the other hand, have one more step in the grieving process, (and it can be a very difficult step) they must rationalize why thier all powerful all loving God would allow thier loved ones to be hurt or killed.
Nos at 10:16PM on Apr 19th 2007
11. Dinesh just can't stop exploiting the murder of dozens of innocent people to continue to mindlessly slander atheists. What a contemptible swine.
Brian Westley at 10:15PM on Apr 19th 2007
12. "Only God seems to have the power to heal hearts in such circumstances."
Right. The invisible all-knowing, all-powerful benevolent God who watches over us and blesses us.....except when some dude decides to start shooting into a college classroom. That God. Yes, what power. Just who I want to turn to in a tragedy like this: someone I can't see or hear or touch. Boy, that's comfort right there. My heart is healing already. A flesh and blood atheist with words and hugs of solace couldn't possibly compare to the aloof and mysterious Almighty. Amen Brother!
ctlr at 10:17PM on Apr 19th 2007
13. And, of course, D'Souza lies about Richard Dawkins, because he doesn't even bother to see what Dawkins has said when a friend of his has died:
http://edge.org/documents/adams_index.html
Brian Westley at 10:19PM on Apr 19th 2007
14. Perhaps something like this should be said at some point.
We are gathered here to recognize the apparent dichotomy of the human condition: the inherent frailty of life and the strength to persevere in difficult situations. Our brief spark of consciousness in time, can be so easily and callously extinguished, but our strength and our ability to persevere in spite of this condition brings us together in times of tragedy. Just as we can share in this sorrow realized by VTech, we can all share in our strength and lean on one another in this time of need. We can ensure that those who are now gone are not forgotten by how we choose to remember them and this day. Was this a day when we ran away in fear to the comforting blanket of false hope? Or was it a day that we decided to act and take our futures into our own hands?
The Alpha at 10:23PM on Apr 19th 2007
15. And the followers of the God of Abraham say:
Well, God may have commanded his chosen people to pillage, to commit geneocide and rape, to enslave other peoples; he may have allowed them to be enslaved themselves and to be so desperately hungry as to eat their own children; he may have allowed the devil to destoy the life of his faithful servant, Job; he may condemn every human being who dies without first excepting a story concocted by first-century fishermen which contradicts all logic and everything we know to be true about the universe; but truly, he had no part whatsoever in the tragic murder of your son/daughter/sister/brother/friend/etc..
How reassuring!
Brian at 10:30PM on Apr 19th 2007