The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
--Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden
And boy the atheists are up in arms! They're mad as hell about my post "Where is Atheism When Bad Things Happen." Many responders informed me that tragedies are normally considered a problem for religion, not atheism. Where is God when bad things happen? Yes, people, I know this. My point was that if evil and suffering are a problem for religion--and they are--they are an even bigger problem for atheism.
The reason is suggested from the quotation given above. When there is a tragedy like the one at Virginia Tech, the ones who are suffering cannot help asking questions, "Why did this have to happen?" "Why is there so much evil in the world?" "How can I possibly go on after losing my child?" And so on.
In my post I noted that Richard Dawkins had not been invited to address the mourners at Virginia Tech. Several atheists--who haven't yet lost their fundamentalist habit of reading--took this sarcastic statement literally. "So what? The Pope hasn't been invited either!" My point was that atheism has nothing to offer in the face of tragedy except C'est la vie. Deal with it. Get over it. This is why the ceremonies were suffused with religious rhetoric. Only the language of religion seems appropriate to the magnitude of tragedy. Only God seems to have the power to heal hearts in such circumstances. If someone started to read from Dawkins on why there is no good and no evil in the universe, people would start vomiting or leaving.
One clever writer informs me that atheists don't deny meaning, they simply insist that meaning is not inherent in the universe, it is created by us. Okay, pal, here's the Virginia Tech situation. Go create some meaning and share it with the rest of us Give us that atheist sermon with you in the pulpit of the campus chapel. I'm not being facetious here. I really want to hear what the atheist would tell the grieving mothers.
Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 10)
76. Mr. D'Souza,
I would appreciate if you would not put words in the mouths of atheists like Richard Dawkins or myself. Taking quotes out of context and then inferring such insensitive remarks from them is intellectually dishonest, but since you set the bar so low, you'll probably have no problem if I take the entirety of your writing and reduce it to a simple statement.
First, I'll use your example. You infer from Dawkin's "River out of Eden" that he is telling people who are suffering from this tragedy to " Deal with it/Get over it."
Now, I'll follow you're example:
You wrote: "Only the language of religion seems appropriate to the magnitude of tragedy. Only God seems to have the power to heal hearts in such circumstances."
Now, I'll reduce this statement in the manner that you did with Dawkins' statement:
"D'Nesh D'Souza has shown that he knows very little about atheists or their philosophies. And what he does know, he apparently doesn't understand any of it. In short, Mr. D'Souza seems to only know Jack and S**t, and Jack left town."
Feel a little abused? Feel like that was unfair of me? Well, now you know how many people feel when you draw false conclusions to support your own personal bigotry.
Also, this is the second time you have used the tragedy of Virgina Tech to advance a narrow and bigoted political viewpoint, something that is by most reasonable peoples' opinion (religious or otherwise) so morally reprehensible as to induce fits of vomiting.
I won't pretend to understand why you feel the need to act so callously in this time of suffering, but I hope that you come to the realization someday that, while it's every citizen's duty to make their voice heard on the issues they consider important, there are some times when it's best just to offer sympathies and condolences rather than blanket condemnations and irrational generalizations. It's not right that Fred Phelps is using this tragedy to advance his radical ideas about religion and homosexuality, and it's not right for you to use it as a vehicle to bash atheists who have done nothing more than offer their shoulders for others to cry on.
People like you are the reason there is such a rift between the faithful and the unbelievers. Your intolerance and bigotry does nothing to promote any kind of harmony or understanding, so please...stop.
Sincerely,
William Cowan
William Cowan at 11:39AM on May 6th 2007
77. "I really want to hear what the atheist would tell the grieving mothers."
They would probably share the deep sense of loss and offer their condolences over these senseless killings.
What they would not do, is to give false hopes to the parents by telling them that their children are fine in an afterlife.
There is nothing as insulting or absurd than to tell parents that their children died because of "fate", or that it was the will of god.
Just remember that atheists will probably share as much sorrow, if not more, than their religious counterparts, because only they truly understand how senseless and futile the killings were.
parseval at 12:29PM on Apr 20th 2007
78. People seemed perfectly happy with Nikki Giovanni's poem, and that did not have one shred of religiosity in it (though you quite erroneously implied that it did.)
You are lashing out at those unlike you instead of mourning the dead. Nice morals, are they from your Bible?
Telemachus at 12:30PM on Apr 20th 2007
79. D'Souza is a troll. Please stop feeding the troll by giving him the attention he craves.
J. Gitzlaff at 2:17PM on Apr 20th 2007
80. Mr. D'Souza-
Once I can attribute to simple ignorance. Now you've verified it for sure, though -- you're an idiot who simply cannot even attempt to view the world in someone else's shoes.
You say events like VT are a bigger problem for atheists? No. When faced with tragedies like this, I can realize that mental illness and random violence are a fact of life. It's terrible when it happens, we must try to prevent it when we can, we grieve when we cannot prevent it. How is that a problem for our worldview?
Compare that to yours. You say "Yes, people, I know this" to the question of Where Was God? But that's a pretty glib answer for a Big Question. Have you even seriously pondered it? Because your only two answers possible are:
1) God did not know it was happening or could not prevent it, or
2) God approved of it
Since you've seen fit to attack atheists in the wake of this tragedy WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ATHEISM, what's your answer here?
Impotent or indifferent. That's your God.
And shame on your for exploiting this tragedy to push your own little religious war. Shame, shame, shame.
Notice that we militant atheists were nowhere to be seen in the aftermath, not preventing you from grieving religiously in whatever manner you like. But you poor, poor, put-upon Christians immediately attacked us.
I said it last time, and I repeat it here: you're an ignorant hypocrite. Please, this time, learn from your mistake.
Caro Cogitatus at 1:31PM on Apr 20th 2007
81. What would an atheist say, Mr. D'Souza? Here are two examples of what an atheist would say:
http://edge.org/documents/adams_index.html
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/19/18451/0971
And I must say, the words of either of those atheists are far and away more eloquent, compassionate and moving than anything I have ever seen penned by you.
Good day, Mr. D'Souza
Raven at 1:22PM on Apr 20th 2007
82. Just because religion might be comforting to some people at times like this, doesn't make it true.
Your unfounded comments about the ability of atheists to offer comfort and support to others are jaw-droppingly bigoted. You should be ashamed of yourself, piggybacking your hateful agenda on the back of tragedy.
Willo the Wisp at 1:23PM on Apr 20th 2007
83. Here's the words of our Christian President George W. Bush at the Va. Tech memorial:
"It's impossible to make sense of such violence and suffering. Those
whose lives were taken did nothing to deserve their fate. They were
simply in the wrong place at the wrong time."
Sure sounds like the description of a random, senseless tragedy to me. Where again is the "comfort" offered by God?
Marty at 1:31PM on Apr 20th 2007
84. I see D'Souza on about the same level as an Ann Coulter or Imus.
Gary at 1:43PM on Apr 20th 2007
85. Typo:
"shame on your" should be "shame on you".
Caro Cogitatus at 1:35PM on Apr 20th 2007
86. This is a grotesque, exploitive, disgusting attempt to use a horrible event for dishonest and self-serving purposes. I think you need therapy, Mr. D'Souza. Your hatred of those you disagree with is pathological.
Bryson Brown at 11:00AM on Apr 21st 2007
87. It's not just the atheists who are "up in arms," to use your extremely poor choice of words. I'm not an atheist, and I thought your post on VT was sophomoric, insulting, and contemptible. Just what I've come to expect from D'Souza.
Hermagoras at 1:53PM on Apr 20th 2007
88. Interestingly, Nikki Giovanni, the poet who delivered the most moving message, did not mention God at all. In fact, her message ("We Are Virginia Tech") is a hymn to _human_ imagination and fortitude. I don't know Giovanni's religious views, but she didn't need to invoke God to find -- and convey -- meaning to the mourners.
Hermagoras at 1:54PM on Apr 20th 2007
89.
Dinesh,
You must be more than a little uncomfortable with how eerily similar your new book's thesis is to the complaints that Cho Seung-Hui had about life at VT and in America. You know, all that ranting about debauchery, lack of decency, disgusting capitalism, hedonism, etc. You are undoubtedly shrieking about Dawkins and atheism because you don't want us to speculate that Cho, a hateful young man who found bogeymen in everything around him, would probably be one of your biggest fans. (People in other forums have wisely pointed out that you are using the Chewbacca Defense, which is designed to distract and confuse the crowd so they don't notice what's really going on.) If I were you I'd be crapping my pants with fear that your dreadful book "The Enemy At Home," in which you blame liberals for 9/11, will be found amongst Cho's personal library with various passages highlighted.
But maybe you just like the attention. You demonize someone, they demonize you, your idiotic writings get attention, your publisher is happy, a fat royalty check arrives, and Sean Hannity gives your book a plug. Cha-ching!
tinisoli at 2:03PM on Apr 20th 2007
90. Mr. D'Souza,
You're a very sad, very small person. I'm sorry for you and yours. Someday, perhaps, you'll locate some humanity in your bleak, hate-filled soul. There is no evidence of any at present.
Dean Austin
Austin@infidels.org
Dean Austin at 2:45PM on Apr 21st 2007