If you want to discover what kind of people atheists are, scroll down to my recent posts and read the responses. I am a troll. I am a cretin. I am a moron. I am a nut-job. And so on. For those who go beyond abuse, there is shrieking complaint. How dare you suggest atheists weren't around when this happened? How can you say atheists don't have feelings? How can you exploit this tragedy in this way? How come your God didn't prevent this, huh?
Actually my point was a simple one, and it seems to be unrefuted. Atheism seems to have nothing to say to people when there is serious bereavement or tragedy. Of course atheists have feelings and there were undoubtedly atheists among the mourners at Virginia Tech. But the Richard Dawkins philosophy--that we live in a meaningless world where there is no good and no evil--whatever its intellectual merit, seems arid and unconsoling when human beings are really hurting.
One atheist wrote to say that rather than rely on idle promises of fantasies of life after death, what atheists would say is that we need gun control laws and a better health care system. Fair enough, but is this what you tell a crying mother? "Madam, you should feel much better because new gun control laws and mental health reforms are on their way."
I wonder if the abuse that atheists heap on people when their ideas are questioned is indicative of a deeper malady. Atheists like to portray themselves as devotees of reason, but read the responses and see how much reason you discover there. Rather, it looks like these fellows hate God, and this hate spills over to anyone who brings up God's name. Call it the atheism of revenge. They blame God for screwing them over in some way, and unbelief is their form of payback.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 8)
16. Let me add that when people called you cretin, troll, moron, or whatever, they weren't responding to your juvenile "arguments," such as they were, but to your willful manipulation of a tragedy to (pretend to) score cheap political points. It's sickening, and "cretin" seems less like an insult than an accurate description of someone who would do that.
Hermagoras at 7:23PM on Apr 20th 2007
17. One more comment. Let me assume you really think you're saying something instead of just wilfully pissing people off (like you learned at the Dartmouth Review back in the day). Your "simple" point was this: "Atheism seems to have nothing to say to people when there is serious bereavement or tragedy."
But the thing is, atheism doesn't say anything. Neither does Christianity, or Buddhism, or Islam, or Judaism, or whatever. "ism's" don't comfort people: PEOPLE do. And the atheist is as comforting as the Christian. That you have more sympathy for ideologies than for people here is not surprising, since that's standard practice in your writing.
Hermagoras at 7:34PM on Apr 20th 2007
18. You still can't admit that you lied, I see. You lied about athiests, you lied about what Dawkins said, and youo continue to lie. (For example, where has Dawkins said, as you say he has, that "there is no good in the world"?) Doesn't the Bible say something about bearing false witness? Your point has been refuted repeatedly, by the way. Atheists, humanists and other secular people provide comfort in all kinds of way, offering love, support, friendship, and aid. None of that requires a diety. But go ahead and play the victim; you've been doing it your entire career.
alwsdad at 12:21AM on Apr 21st 2007
19. As a grieving mother (not from VT, but a grieving mother, nevertheless), I will tell you that the most comfort I received when my grief was new had nothing whatever to do with an afterlife or the idea of a purpose in my child's death by some supreme being. The things that gave me comfort were those who came to visit and listed while I talked about my child, those who held me while I cried, those who made meals for me because they knew I wouldn't remember to do it for myself, those who came and cleaned the bathroom because they knew that I would have family coming to visit and couldn't manage to do it myself. The ones who told me that "God needed her more than you did" or "she's in a better place" just made me angry.
The fact is that there is nothing -- not one thing -- that anyone can say that will make it any better that a child has died. The closest is to say "I'm sorry," with true empathy.
I don't care about the religion or lack thereof in those who did things that really did make a difference. What mattered is that they showed that they cared and actually did something instead of spouting the platitudes that you seem to think mean something.
BTW, I am not an atheist.
Carol at 8:11PM on Apr 20th 2007
20. Believers and non-believers die.
Believers and non-believers can comfort survivors.
Invective and flame-baiting won't heal, not will it bring us together despite our differences. Jesus wants you to turn the other cheek, you idiot.
(Forgive me.)
RichPee at 8:57PM on Apr 20th 2007
21. You are purposely missing the point to make the point. Religion in this case may comfort some, but it doesn't prove the existence of God. The further problem is that religions which teach that unless someone is "saved" they are going to be in everlasting torment is of no comfort to families!
Let them grieve without your need to butt in and try to score for religion. You are an opportunist and this is your platform. The grieving families themselves are probably not paying too much attention to Dawkins v. D'Souza these days.
Mike Haubrich at 5:24AM on Apr 21st 2007
22. Dinesh the Inquisitor Started This!
I, and the rest of the free thinking, nonbeliever community, were minding our busines and mourning the VT massacre when Dinesh decided to score a few points and prostitute the victims by attacking a group of people that had nothing to do with the VT massacre. And now poor Dinesh wants to play the victim because he peeved off others with his intolerant and ghoulish posts attacking atheists. It's disgusting.
attotheobscure at 9:11PM on Apr 20th 2007
23. Wow - A lot of the angry atheists posting on this and the other thread, the way the rant and rave remind me (a little, thank God they are much milder) of when the pope said that radicals in Islam were too prone to use violence and needed to use more reason, radical Muslims went on a rampage and hysterically destroyed all sorts of property and otherwise went loco - to prove the pope was wrong I guess ??!!
It is tough to understand where that sort of thinking comes from.
; )
Ken Berg at 9:10PM on Apr 20th 2007
24. The only hate I've seen is that you direct toward atheists. Though there is plenty of anger and frustration directed at *you* regarding your callous use of a tragic situation to grind your religious axe.
An atheist says the same thing that any good human being should say to a grieving mother - "I am sorry for your loss," spoken with empathy and compassion.
While I doubt these comments will make any impression on you, I will repeat something I have told others who have accused me of hating god - that is an utterly silly idea. To an atheist, god is equivalent to the tooth fairy, though perhaps less friendly. Why would we wish to waste time and energy "hating" something that is not there?
I do not hate your imaginary god, and I do not hate you or any other Christian. I pity you, and I am saddened and disgusted when you speak in this manner.
Please get off your high horse. Those that believe in god have not cornered the market on compassion and humanity, let alone morality*. Each person must rise and fall on their own; belief or unbelief is not an automatic pass to a higher nature.
(* The metaethical position of divine command was defeated soundly by Socrates. I suggest you read Plato's "Euthyphro.")
Rachael at 9:17PM on Apr 20th 2007
25. You, sir, are a vicious person. No atheist I know would use a tragedy like this to pound whatever deeply offensive thing happens to float into view. As an atheist, if someone I know has been hurt in some way, I comfort them as best I know how. If she wants to talk to be about god, I'm not a dick about it--I'll even go to church with her if she wants. I won't tell my friend anything I don't believe, but I know that times of deep personal injuries are not times to attack people's beliefs.
Atheism is not the same thing as scientific materialism. You can be an atheist and believe that there is more to the world than what science has to offer. Also, scientific materialism doesn't imply that there is no good or evil. It's just simply not true, and if you gave two shits, you could figure it out. This is basic, basic philosophy. How in god's name do you have a paid position at Stanford if you don't understand this? Will they give me one? Hell, I'm a chemist and I understand that.
Russell at 9:16PM on Apr 20th 2007
26. Many Jews don't believe in an afterlife, let's attack them too!! And then we can pretend to be the victim when they accuse us being bigots! Oh wait, Dinesh's target book-buying audience is the christian right....they might get mad too as they have bizarre believes about Jews and the rapture. O.k., then lets just stay on the good side of the christian right and use the Virginia Tech massacre as a chance to take pot shots and non-believers and then use the backlash to further cement the crass strawman stereotypes we want to propigate about nonbelievers.
αθεοι at 9:20PM on Apr 20th 2007
27. Atheists "hate god"? Do you "hate" Zeus? Allah? Hercules? The Jewish god? Siva? See how nonsensical your claim is?
towelie at 9:35PM on Apr 20th 2007
28. Wow... I'd wondered if you could fall any lower, and I guess that was answered.
Did you even read the comments? Some of them were heart felt answers to your questions. And really, these people have a right to be mad at you, what you said was terrible.
I mean, if someone went around and called all Christians, non-humans who have no compassion and can't offer condolences, wouldn't you be upset? And, above all, you'd have a right to be upset.
So, to make it clear, I'm not an atheist, I'm a Methodist, but what you said was just horrible, low, sick, wrong, and even made me mad.
But, I guess you're a glutton for punishment, putting up another string about how right you are, and how wrong everyone else.
Have your daily dose of ego-mania.
Kimberly at 10:33PM on Apr 20th 2007
29. Well bucko--what do you expect when you slam an entire group? Did you expect us atheists to just take it? Did you expect us to like it? Did you think that you could take an horrific situation, turn it into something bashing atheists, and not get called for it? If you did, you are one seriously deluded person.
Look, if you want to live in your fantasy-world where some over-arching Meaning Of Life (tm) is required, you can. We will be here in the real world where we make our own meaning. We don't need to look to some silly book of myths or beyond ourselves for meaning. We make life meaningful for ourselves. If you can't deal with that, I suggest that you end your own life right now, since YOU are the one whose life has no meaning.
And no atheist hates god, for you cannot hate that which does not exist. If you want to try to score some debate points, you'd better learn how NOT to make a complete idiot of yourself with false statements. In fact, I'd wager that you're the one full of hate. Your past two posts (the one you got slammed for and this one) demonstrate an utter hatred of atheists. Yet you project your hatred onto us.
Get some help, buddy: you need it.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 11:00PM on Apr 20th 2007
30. We are all just human beings. We need to comfort one another. It helps some people to believe that god has a plan for them and their loved ones. Others have figured out other ways to cope with life. We should all just try to do the best we can to treat others the way we would want to be treated. Isn't that why we're on this earth?
Sally Sue at 11:07PM on Apr 20th 2007