It probably comes down to how you grew up, personally I do believe in evolution but I went to a public school and was not raised with religion. Mike Huckabee, who explains his views on evolution here, went to a Baptist University, "Ouachita is dedicated to Christian and educational excellence." So, it should be no surprise that he raised his hand when asked that question during the debate. I don't know much about what being raised on religion is like, but I wonder if those three politicians sat through a class like when they were children?
Do you have a child who believes in evolution? Kirk Cameron wants to help you. A documentary came out recently about using religion to indoctrinate children. This clip below is from the documentary "Jesus Camp". It's a small window into the teaching of Creationism.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 2)
1. I was born in a fundamentalist family but, unfortunately for those opposed to the idea of evolution, including my lovely mother, I learned to read. As soon as that happened and I began to understand the difference between sense and nonsense, I came to realize that evolution had to be real. Everything I've learned since then has continued to support this. I don't BELIEVE in evolution, I simply understand that nothing in the world of life makes any sense without it. I won't go into the millions of discoveries that support it here, other than to mention a couple: the mapping of genome sequences between species and the evolution of bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Do I really need to say more? Belief systems should be outlawed as bases for laws and social or political policies. If you can't point at facts, don't spout unsupported opinions.
Lloyd at 8:51PM on May 5th 2007
2. I just don't see how rational people can believe in writings found in a book with stories so fictional that they rival todays best sellers. These people believe that EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING in the universe was created out of thin air by 1 man in 6 days. Just think about that for a moment. Now show me the proof that this happened, I don't mean show me a book, that someone found years ago that says its true, I mean show me scientific evidence that it could have possibly occured like the Bible says it did. In fact, I challenge anyone, anyone to write down, or even think in your own mind, every thing that the bible says was created. In other words, every species of animal, every species of plant, EVERYTHING, do you have any idea how long it would take to simply THINK of EVERYTHING in your own mind, if you could even do it, which would be impossible, it would take years, just to think of EVERYTHING, but 1 man, created EVERYTHING in 6 days. Thats better than any science fiction that has ever been written. Come on people. And the one question that always stumps the christians that I ask is, If only Adam and Eve wear created in the beginning, like the bible says, and we all in essence, came from them, what about INCEST, would that not had to have taken place, if not then how? Someone please explain that.
GCumbie at 5:51AM on May 6th 2007
3. Here are some insights to the politics of today and the future.
http://todaypolitics.blogspot.com/
bloggershaven at 3:02PM on May 6th 2007
4. There has been a marriage and a child has been born. Republicanism + Fundamentalist Christianity = the new "American Nazi Party." I wonder if Ted Haggard is still in "Jesus Camp" or did the meth binges he had with a male prostitute cause the film's creators to edit out his homophobe sequence.
This is about much more than Christianity: its about the attempt by an extremist religious cult to colonize our secular government. Of course these people are free under the First Amendment to practice their beliefs and indoctrinate their children. BUT, they're not satisfied with that.
Did you notice how Mom strongly emphasized to little Levi that politics made her fantasy lesson VERY important? Did you notice the propaganda shot of the flag and the church in the other clip, sending the not so subliminal message that the Nazi American way is the patriotic way? They want to totally abolish the wall between church and state and make the new fascism our national state religion under a fundamentalist theocracy.
But, they are a group in crisis. A brand spanking new Newsweek poll shows ALL Democratic presidential contenders beating ALL Republican contenders. Poor Bush's approval rating has fallen to 28%, and 71% of the country believe the Republicans have set this country off in the wrong direction and definataly want to get back on track. Ironically, Congress' approval rating jumped from 35% to 40% immediately after Nancy Pelosi visited Syria. While still low, this shows me America is highly displeased with Republican obstruction of all the legislation passed by the Democrats that would help the average American.
Phil at 6:39PM on May 6th 2007
5. I'm an Evangelical Christian, I homeschool my kids, and I have to confirm that there is enormous pressure by most Christians to not only reject evolution, but to reject science. It has been a huge problem to get any homeschool support with real science in it. This is speaking as an insider.
HOWEVER, if we are going to criticize non-rational thinking (and I am), then perhaps it would help to get rid of the rational thinking on the other side. Equating problems with creationism with American Nazi party is no more rational than young earth creationsim. Sheez - arguing that others are ridiculous in their beliefs by showing your crazy conspiracy theories - not a good way to persuade others.
And that is the problem, in my mind. Most people, on both sides of this 'debate', are not trying to persuade. Most people are into groupthink, trying to prove their credentials against the 'others'.
Phil (the other one) at 9:44PM on May 6th 2007
6.
I wonder how many of those Presidential candidates who denied evolution would be willing to take the same stand on the practice of modern medicine ?
After all, both evolution and modern medicine are relatively recent discoveries brought about by years of scientific research. Why not be consistent and stick to the good old fashioned way of thinking all the time ? No MRIs or scans for me Doc - just bring on the leeches !
max at 12:01AM on May 7th 2007
7.
Don't believe in evolution ? How about modern medicine ? After all, both came about after years of research by the scientific community. Why not be consistent and reject both ?
No MRIs, scans, or medicines for me Doc - just bring on the leeches !
max at 12:07AM on May 7th 2007
8. @ phil(the other one) (comment 5)
How can you reconcile the difference between what you say you believe and reality?
If you allow your kids to learn all the sciences that point to the correctness of the theory of evolution by natural selection... if they are really good students, they will come to the conclusion that your faith is nonsense... because it rejects reality.
Since you can't see a problem arising there... it's no wonder that you can't see a problem with USA becoming a theocracy.
The first order of business would be to outlaw atheism... perhaps by simply disappearing all atheists. It happened in Germany... so don't say that it could NEVER happen.
pboyfloyd at 12:59AM on May 7th 2007
9. Phil (the other one) writes: "Equating problems with creationism with American Nazi party is no more rational than young earth creationsim."
There is nothing irrational about the fascist manner in which Fundamentalists have infiltrated our political system, or its potential consequences. Its happened before: Nazi Germany 1933-1945.
Fundamentalist "science" is as bogus as Aryan Superiority class for the Hitler Youth. As mentioned and seen in the tapes, the Fundamentalist emphasis is on the political importance of instilling their religious beliefs in our public schools and secular government, indoctrinating Fundamentalist children to believe EVERY word in the Bible. As Mom told little Levi: "I want you to go to a school where people say evolution is ridiculous." Mom also heavily emphasized the "political" importance of her "lesson." During group indoctrination class, one speaker even held up the Bible and said "this is war." Its more than fine if you want to home school your children to believe what you want them to believe; and, as long as you prevent them from having any real exposure to non-Fundamentalists (such as in a public university) you will have successfully removed your child's ability to think for himself or herself.
And, you've carefully delineated your hit list of scapegoats. As James Dobson of the Christian Coalition said, when he rejected advocacy of anything besides hatred of gays and abortion: "We're primarily a political organization." All you have to mention is g-a-y and Fundamentalists go ballistic. The Family Research Council is now conducting a full blast well funded lobbying effort to keep "sexual preference" off of a list of protected classes in a hate crime sentence enhancement bill. The FRC is using such desperate arguments as "it will make people feel they have to rent to gays" and "it will punish people for thinking discriminatory thoughts." When the reality is that hate crimes against gays are at their highest level ever and second only to racial hate crimes, but much higher proportionately for gays, this lobbying effort can only be seen as supporting hate crimes.
Moreover, the Fundamentalist Right's tactics in persecuting gays exactly mirror Hitler's tactics. First, through crude humor, selective literal Bible quotation, arguing that gays are an elite to evoke hate and envy, and using extremely shaky research to minimize the size of the gay, lesbian and bisexual population, Fundamentalists are setting up gays for hate crimes. Fundamentalists' desire to discriminate against gays in housing, employment and provision of business services is equal to the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany.
Under the Bush Administration, Fundamentalists have a direct line to the White House. In fact, Ted Haggard called every week. Fundamentalists seek to boycott practically every business that seeks to promote equal civil rights for gays. Thank God big business isn't listening, there are not enough of you to drive Fortune 500 companies out of business through your hate boycotts.
During the last six years, graduates from Pat Robertson's barely accredited law school have filled our Department of Justice and been peppered as sleeper cells through the upper level ranks of the federal bureaucracy. The ONLY reason these people were hired for powerful government positions was because of their religious beliefs, as they certainly are not the best and the brightest. In fact, until a recent revamp, the school could hardly get any type of significant portion of its graduates to pass bar exams.
So, Fundamentalism is already on track with Nazi Germany's three part program used against Jews: (1) dehumanize so perpetrators of hate crimes will feel no guilt about committing physical violence against the scapegoat du jour, and (2) working actively to institutionalize the scapegoating into law. All that's left to do, once you have fully succeeded in the first two steps is step (3): the "final solution."
And, pboyfloyd is absolutely right, gays are only the most prominent on the list of targets, but the desire is that when you are done with gays, you would extend the same treatment to atheists, believers in other religions, "liberals" according to the Fundamentalist definition, scientists and anyone else who has the nerve to speak up and disagree.
Of course, logic has nothing to do with it. The Bible condones slavery, killing misbehaving children, giving men the right to rape women and then decide whether to kill or marry them, and stoning the adultress (but not the man she slept with). When you believe in literal interpretation of the entire man made Bible, edited and organized by a committee of the Catholic Church centuries ago, you MUST believe in all of these things. If you deny this, then you are simply selectively quoting the Bible to support your own personal prejudices (and your list of targets is anyone who does not think like you do).
Because of your extremely limited scope of interest, destroying science and promoting hate, you were perfect fodder for the Republican power machine. Their priorities are benefitting the wealthiest one percent of Americans who own 2/3's of all American assets (even if it means destroying the world through global warming) and a war of colonization in Iraq. Now that you have learned of the immorality of the Republican power machine, you'll actively search for another means to wield political power.
Of course, if you succeed, you'll have been successful in taking America back to the Dark Ages, a brain drain country that talented creators, scientists, and the educated avoid like the plague. That result is to be expected, because you ARE a plague, a disease to be kept at bay.
But, at least for now, you're essentially locked in the church where you belong, because America is rejecting you. Recent polls show the majority of our nation highly respect and desire the Democratic goals of compassion, inclusion, and the pursuit of excellence. This will not prevent you from practicing your beliefs, which you have a First Amendment right to do, but it will prevent you from destroying the First Amendment.
Phil at 3:06AM on May 7th 2007
10. Evolutionists BUILD us a living cell.
If evolutionists want to end the arguments all they need do is, get their brilliant heads together and assemble a 'simple' living cell. This should be possible, because today they certainly have a very great amount of knowledge about the contents of the so-called 'simple' cell.
After all, shouldn't all the combined Intelligence of all the worlds scientist be able the do what chance encounters with random chemicals, without a set of instructions, accomplished about 4 billion years ago, 'according to the evolutionists,' and having no intelligence at all available to help them along in their quest to become a living entity. Surely the evolutionists scientists of today should be able to make us a 'simple' cell.
If it weren't so pitiful it would be humorous, that intelligent people have swallowed the evolution mythology.
Beyond doubt, the main reason people believe in evolution is that sources they admire, say it is so. It would pay for these people to do a thorough examination of all the evidence CONTRARY to evolution that is readily available: Try answersingenesis.org. The evolutionists should honestly examine the SUPPOSED evidence 'FOR' evolution for THEMSELVES.
Build us a cell, from scratch, with the required raw material, that is with NO cell material, just the 'raw' stuff, and the argument is over. But if the scientists are unsuccessful, perhaps they should try Mother Earth's recipe, you know, the one they claim worked the first time about 4 billion years ago, so they say. All they need to do is to gather all the chemicals that we know are essential for life, pour them into a large clay pot and stir vigorously for a few billion years, and Walla, LIFE!
Oh, you don't believe the 'original' Mother Earth recipe will work? You are NOT alone, Neither do I, and MILLIONS of others!
James Collins at 12:18PM on May 7th 2007
11. I believe that the web site www.answersingenesis.org effectively deals with the many scientific flaws in the theory of evolution - and powerfully demonstrates how the Biblical account much more accurately fits the actual scientific data.
Bill Fiess at 12:47PM on May 7th 2007
12. pboyfloyd - "How can I reconcile the difference between what I say I believe and reality"?
Young earth creationists are a subset of all Christians, and they specifically insist on interpreting the Bible in a literal fashion. This view is self-contradictory, in my mind, as even Jesus used allegorical devices (e.g. destroy the temple in three days and rebuild really mean death and resurrection). The point is, evangelicalism does not equal fundamentalism / literalism. Like you, I am completely against the fundamentalist viewpoint.
You seem to make an assumption that what I believe does not match reality, but you give no basis for this statement - I do not know how to specifically answer this question.
Do you people (pboyfloyd and phil) really think that all Christians are anti-science theocrats intent on taking down the US constitution? For what it's worth, I have a master's degree in science, read and teach deeply on theoretical physics and engineering, and teach my children about Darwin, geology, etc. In other words, I offer you living proof that this assumption of yours is false.
phil - Your comments are so asinine as to defy a response. Grow up.
Phil (the other one) at 3:48PM on May 7th 2007
13. As a retired electronics systems engineer, and as a follower of Jesus Christ, I find much more explanation of evolution by scientists than explanation of creation by creationists (scientists or theologians). For the past 20 years it has been my hobby to study what the creation account in Genesis really says and how modern science confirms and supports Biblical creation.
Why was light the first thing created? The answer is in my 33-page book. You can get the free PDF download from http://www.jimkaness.com/engineering. It is near the top of the list of free document downloads.
Jim Kaness at 3:16PM on May 9th 2007
14. I didn't know evolution was something you believed in. Religion is a belief system, science is not.
Harold at 2:38PM on May 10th 2007
15. Wow...where to start. Did previous commentators miss the part where they said that scientists with doctorates from many scientific backgrounds support Creationism? Visit http://www.icr.org/ for scientific evidences supporting Scientific Creationism.
Evolution is a theory taught as a fact. Yet much of its "evidences" are based non-imperical science.
Evolution has many dating techniques: Carbon-14 which has placed living tissue as being thousands of years old dead. The dating of volcanic matter with half-life techniques that are significantly incorrect because we know the time of eruption.
Fossil ages based on the stratum of earth the object was taken from and stratum ages based on the fossils in them...circular reasoning.
The Nebraska Man was a histroical find based on the evidence of a tooth. Scientists calculated the obvious jaw structure to house the tooth, and the musculature required to operate the mouth which defined the required skull to etc. etc. It was esteemed a remarkable find by evolution scientists. Until they had a complete picture of a hairy hunched over, large brow human-link, only to find that the tooth was that of a pig.
I find no evidence of positive mutations, which would be necessary to support evolution over any period of time. I see instead "Genetic Load". The transference of genetic problems from generation to generation, cleft lip for example. I confess though that I have seen great works of fiction on TV about the next stage of human evolution and I'm sure this could be submitted as evidence to support the evolution theory.
A river which swells from recent storms washes away a layer of earth to reveal footprints of dinosaurs. Not just dinosaurs but human foot prints...who was chasing who is still unknown. Foot prints that could not be accessed to chisel fakes until after the storm subsided. Footprints whose edges stand up above the surrounding surface of the rock so that it could not be just chisled into the rock. Or I suppose that I could theorize that the original dinosaur footprints stayed untouched for millions of years int he soft eart until man evolved, walked by and only after that the earth hardened.
You want references for this information? Go see The website for the Institute for Scientific Creationism and stop taking pusedo scientific evolution for granted based on something other than hard science. I'm not even touching the hard evidence.
Dale L. Cobb at 11:18PM on May 28th 2007