Pakistani Christians are receiving threats from the Taliban to convert to Islam or die. Here we see the difference between radical and traditional Islam. In traditional Islam it is never acceptable to force anyone to convert. The Koran says "there shall be no compulsion in religion" and this has been understood, by all the mainstream schools, to mean that one should freely choose to become a Muslim. No Muslim empire has historically enforced mass conversion.
Typically Muslim empires have distinguished between conquering a country and bringing it under Islamic rule and law--this is allowed--and forcing people to become Muslims--this is not allowed. The Islamic radicals, in trying to compel conversions on pain of death, are breaking with the Koran and the Islamic tradition. Only two schools of Koranic interpretation--the Bin Laden school and the Robert Spencer school--consider Taliban-style "convert or die" jurisprudence to be consistent with what the Prophet Muhammad taught and what the Koran says.
There is a problem with traditional Islam, but it doesn't concern converting in but rather converting out. Classical Islam allows voluntary entry into Islam, but once you're in you cannot leave. Indeed the traditional remedy for apostasy is death. (No wonder Rushdie got into so much trouble.) I don't think this is consistent with any Western understanding of religious freedom. Fortunately there are traditional Muslims like Tariq Ramadan who are calling for a reassessment of these teachings, not in the name of secularism or liberalism but in the name of a renewed Islam that is well adapted to the needs of the twenty-first century.
Islam is growing worldwide, as is Christianity. What we have here is what Hayek once called "a framework of competing utopias." The faith that wins is not the one that bullies its opponents but the one that wins them over with hope for a better life. No other religions have the evangelical power of Islam and Christianity. Buddhism seems only to be growing among disaffected Europeans, and in Hollywood. HInduism and Judaism don't even aspire to make converts. If traditional Muslims want Christians to protect their rights in Christian countries, they must protect Christians from the assaults of the radicals in Muslim countries. Bush should convey this message to General Musharraf and to the Muslims of Pakistan.
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 4)
31. Well, the US doesnt rule the world. But, I think it would be a good thing to help thos ppl... I swear, this is hitler all over again
Alexandra at 5:08PM on May 17th 2007
32. Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?
"A young Pakistani student belonging to the Christian faith has posed an interesting question through a petition in the Lahore High Court. The question is: Am I, a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow citizen who is a Muslim ?For those of the readers who missed the news item reported by an English daily, this young student belongs to a low income group, is a practicing Christian and extremely bright. She has been competing to get into the King Edwards Medical College but was beaten on the list by 20 marks by a Muslim student who got the extra 20 marks for being Hafiz--e-Quran. So, now this young Christian girl has filed a plea in the Lahore Court declaring that she and the Muslim student had equal marks but the latter got the advantage of religion. The young Christian student claims that ``this is discrimination against religious minority students and a violation of fundamental rights granted by the Constitution of Pakistan." The petition admitted by the Lahore High Court demands that either the LHC should rule to abolish the policy or should declare that a parallel policy should be made to award twenty additional marks to religious minority students on the basis of their religious knowledge. Fifty eight years after the creation of the country to ask such a question through the courts is both tragic and hopeful".
Constitution of Pakistan, Part II, Chapter -1, Fundamental Rights, Article 22 says:-
(1) No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.
(2) In respect of any religious institution, there shall be no discrimination against any community in the granting of exemption or concession in relation to taxation.
(3) Subject to law: (a) no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination; and
(b) no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth.
(4) Nothing in this Article shall prevent any public authority from making provision for the advancement of any socially or educationally backward class of citizens.
What do you think of above?
Roland Borges at 5:27PM on May 17th 2007
33. I think I can sum this up rather quickly......"may God bless us all."
Joann at 5:55PM on May 17th 2007
34. The Pakistani Constitution clearly states there should be religious freedom. Moderate and liberal Muslims are not going to speak up because when they do they are threatened and killed. Take a look at the threats to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, and Ibn Warraq. There is an excellent movie out that will explain all of this extreme radical Islam to people. It's called "Obsession" and you can check it out at this website.
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/trailer-12min.php
Rob at 5:58PM on May 17th 2007
35. This is to all of those who say islam is a religion of hate. How many of you actually take the time to research islam to back up your opinions. To base ones ideas of a people or a religion on the actions of a minority of radicals is to be ignorant and close minded. No religion is inherently evil. It is those who wish to use religion for personal gain or to justify killing are the ones who are evil. And by saying that all muslims are evil and their religion needs to be destroyed only confirms what the radical muslims are saying. Almost all religions are guilty of horrible acts at some point in their past, but that isn't the religions fault. It is the fault of those who use the religion for personal or political gain.
Matt at 6:03PM on May 17th 2007
36. It's been my experience that Muslims love to point out what the Catholic Church or Christians in general have done in the past. They seem to have some collective belief that Christianity's past excuses Islam's violence and fanaticism in the present.
No one denies that Christianity has a violent past; however, this is no excuse to deny that Islam has been a violent and intolerant religion since its foundation and continues to be so to this day (eg. explain why in Saudi Arabia, non-Muslims, like Phillipino immigrants, are sent to jail for practicing their religion.)
Some deluded apologists might try to point out the decades-long violence in Northern Ireland or the Oklahoma City bombing. Keep in mind that in Northern Ireland religion was just consequetial as Protestants called themselves loyalists and Catholics called themselves Nationalists. In other words they devided themselves along nationalist lines. Meanwhile, Timothy McVeigh had a problem with the Federal government and NOT with any religion in particular.
People, wake up. Muslims are NOT the warm and fuzzy people they would like you to believe they are. They are finding it very hard to catch up with the twenty-first century.
Rafael at 7:13PM on May 17th 2007
37. As a Roman Catholic Goan who was born in Karachi after the partition I recently visited Karachi and was surprised to see what the media and people like Dinesh D'Souza who sit in fancy offices write about places they have never visited.
I have not read Dinesh's latest book but intend to do so soon. He spoke about the rich religious strength people in Goa,(India) and Pakistan seem to display. On my recent visit to Goa I did see a Church or Chapel on every corner and daily Masses
are the crowed but also I saw a huge percentage of families fighting over estates where for generations family feuds have taken priorty over family ties.
Dinesh conveniently excludes this when he talks about family values in Asia. A very important trend in Goa that has gotten worse over the generations and I wonder if religion really works when families are torn apart?
I have written about my travels to Karachi Pakistan and the changes I found that confused me.
I would appreciate your comments:-
Link: http://rolanb.travellerspoint.com/2/
Roland Borges at 8:00PM on May 17th 2007
38. I am glad there is debate- that's good. I would just encourage everyone to examine the founders of their faith before they claim it as their own faith. Who is the founder of Christianity? Islam? Look at the life of each man and decide for yourself WHOM YOU SHOULD FOLLOW....FOLLOW MEANS DO AS THE FOUNDER HAS DONE...Jesus gave His life for His sheep that they may become the righteousness of God through Him. Mohammed carried a sword. Jesus carried our sins on the cross. Jesus commanded we spread His gospel of saving grace to ALL the world. Mohammed said if the people of the Book(Bible) would live in peace amoung the Muslims- OK, if not- death. Jesus said we must die to ourselves AND ESTEEM OTHERS ABOVE OURSELVES. If one is a true follower of Christ, murder- the unjust taking of any life- is forbidden without justification in the Bible. A muslim can find justification in the Koran for the killing of an infidel(not considered murder to them). Those in the past who have claimed to do the work of Christ using torture, murder, or lies will be told by Our Lord, "Depart from Me, I never knew you"- for everyone that says "Lord, Lord!" will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Pray and ask God to reveal His truth to you. Our opinions mean little next to God's revelation.
Angelique at 10:05AM on May 18th 2007
39. War and hate in the name of God is convoluted whatever the nomenclature of the religon.
Extreamist is just another term for crazy and that is the name of their religion.Religon is more than what you say you belive it's who you really are and live your life. Muslim, Jewish, Christian etc..... terrorists, are just that; terrorists. That is their cult, we should not dignify it by calling or recognizing it as a religion.
Annie at 9:18PM on May 17th 2007
40. Mr De Souza,
Religious Freedom never overrules the law of the land. Rights are prioritized, whether or we like it or not; we all the have the right to not be attacked in our countries by jihadis - and that OVERRULES islamic law.
If Islamists don't like it, they know where the door is...just live under sharia in your own lands - don't bring that nonsense here. We are a secular society, and God/Allah/Shiva/Hashem/Buddha/Cosmos Overlords help those who wage ji-pay-attention-to-me-had over here...
Nobody's Dhimmi at 10:43PM on May 17th 2007
41. sorry about my grammar.gay is prohibited in muslim ,when i work in the middle east as a house keeper i found a lot of things unusual.i worked with the prince a member of royal family i saw him many times having sex with an iraqui guy . he also a very religious guy . its funny he's nephew at a very young age is doing the same thing . bless them all!!!!!!
alex at 1:42AM on May 21st 2007
42. It's sad to think that Islam feels compeled by threatening others to convert, Islam has no structure and Imams run wild with different interpretations of the Holy Quran, I wonder if Mohammed (PBUH) is spinning in his grave knowing that his message has been profoundly corrupted by the evil doers of the Arabic World. And these evils doers? Men Men Men. Uneducated, unhappy, and have resulted in violence in the Name of Allah. I say death to the radicals and extreme fundametalists that bring nothing but chaos, bombs, into our society perverting the one thing many people enjoy-Religion.
Richard at 6:23AM on May 18th 2007
43. Isto, the Muslim-Christian fighting began long before there even was a Pope. Islam's early conquests were in what had been the Roman Empire, and they took three of the five main cities of Christendom. The split between the other two enabled the rise of the Pope. It was when the Muslims were hammering on the gates of one of those two, Constantinople, that the Pope called for a Crusade.
Mr. D'Souza, you would sound much more compelling if you didn't drag Mr. Spencer in to your columns like this. Or, if you feel the need to mention him, perhaps you could read his writing, first? In all of his germaine writings, he notes that Islam offers a three-fold choice - not the simple binary choice you list. Conversion and War are two of the choices; the third is submission. We are now seeing how well the Pakistani Christians' choice of submission is working for them.
John at 12:02PM on May 18th 2007
44. @ blu (comment 20)
The Protestant majority in Northern Ireland do not want to be ruled by the Catholic Government in Eire. What are the I.R.A. fighting for if not to unite Ireland under the rule of their Catholic Government?
You say, "Hilter despised religion and Christianity."
Apparently he despised them so much that the SS had 'Gott mit uns'.... God with us... on their belt-buckles.
You say, "And are you the ignoramous who tried to link Christianity and Hitler?"
Look up Hitler's Pope on the web. I think Pope Pius XII did a helluva job linking Hitler to Christianity, don't you?
I don't think that you are ignorant blu... I think that you are trying to revise history because Christians are likely to want to go along with you.
Isn't SATAN supposed to be The Deceiver... not you guys... what's the story blu, are you fighting deceit with deceit now?
Are you claiming that the SS had 'God with us' on the belt-buckles as an 'inside joke'... is that it?
Sure Hitler used religion and God in particular as a tool... but you all do that.
pboyfloyd at 2:16PM on May 18th 2007
45. "No Muslim empire has historically enforced mass conversion"
Haven't they always none the less demanded and enforced their laws of behavior which have a similar practical effect?
DDwain at 1:18AM on May 20th 2007