This incredible post by Andrew Sullivan (conservative blogger who no longer supports the Bush administration) explains how the Germans used what they called "enhanced interrogation" in 1937. He explains how it took on a life of its own and turned into the nightmare that became Nazi Germany.
As he carefully explains in his post, this is not to say that present day America is the same as what Nazi Germany became. That would be a ridiculous statement. It is to say that we should be careful in heading down certain paths because they lead to terrible and ugly places -- and gain momentum as time goes on.
When I see people defending torture in this country under the guise of getting tough with "terrorists" ( the Germans also used the word "terrorists" to describe some of their enemies) and when I see the audience cheering in the Republican primary debates when the candidates talk about "enhanced interrogation," I get a chill down my spine (to be fair John McCain came out strongly against torture in that debate, it was Giuliani and Romney who seemed so eager to cozy up to "enhanced interrogation techniques").
I'll tell you right now that if you are one of the people who defends this form of torture/enhanced interrogation you will regret it one day. I don't mean that as some sort of goofy threat, I mean you will literally regret that you ever sunk so low. My guess is that you will hang your head in shame and pretend you never said it.
Nearly 100 people have died in our custody and many of these have already been determined to be murders, including at least eight who were tortured to death. We also used some of the techniques at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan that the Germans used in Dachau (it's now called a Palestinian hanging, named after what the Israelis allegedly did to Palestinian prisoners).
The general public doesn't have a good grasp of how far our government went and how many people died while we were torturing them (Sullivan has one picture in his post , but there are many other gruesome pictures of the results of our "aggressive interrogation" tactics). When people get a handle on what was done in our name, they are going to be enraged at how this administration has sullied the reputation of this great country. You don't want to be one of the people who defended this.
One last amazing fact, in 1937 the Germans wouldn't use waterboarding or hypothermia because it was too cruel. Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales and George W. Bush all authorized what the Germans wouldn't in 1937. To repeat, that doesn't mean they would authorize what the Germans did in later years, which was indescribably worse. But as former Reagan-appointed conservative jurist Sandra Day O'Connor said about the possible rise of dictatorship in this country last year, "It takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship, but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings."
The same applies to torture. We should avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings.
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"Enhanced Interrogation" Techniques Originally Used by the Nazis
Posted May 31st 2007 1:14PM by Cenk Uygur
Filed under: Iraq, George Bush, Young Turks, GOP, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Alberto Gonzales, Dick Cheney, Mitt Romney
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 1)
1. Well, despite what miss O'Connor may say now, she is THE SOLE PERSON RESPONSIBLE for Bush being in power today.
It was her vote that ended the recount in 2000.
I hate her to the very core of my being. Nothing she will do or say will ever make up for giving us the dictator in chief, elBush.
Then, there's the whole resigning issue, wherein she added one more feather to the right-wing hat.
Super Geek at 5:05PM on May 31st 2007
2. These details read like something out of the Nuremberg trials following WWII, or when the grandfatherly neighbor is discovered to have been the sadistic concentration camp guard decades ago. And, our Supreme Court hadn't put a stop to it, remember that the Bush Administration tried to make sure American citizens were also subject to this treatment.
Phil at 6:07PM on May 31st 2007
3. "Well, despite what miss O'Connor may say now, she is THE SOLE PERSON RESPONSIBLE for Bush being in power today.
It was her vote that ended the recount in 2000."
Not really unless she's also the sole person responsible for Bush being re-elected.
Biz at 11:54PM on May 31st 2007
4. It's called a Palestinian hanging because Palestinian's do it to other Palestinians they consider traitors.
Samuel Spade at 11:59PM on May 31st 2007
5. Sorry but you are wrong again, Uygur, my dodo bird. Not having been in war or the military, you know nothing of toture techniques. The experts are in Vietnam, (try a few bamboo splinters under your fingernails, or better yet, up your penis?) I'd offer to do it for you but we Americans wont go that far... Do you belive the bad guys are any less violent (oh,oh maybe if we dont hurt them they'll play nice with us? You are so short-sighted you will never see the larger picture.
When Ben Laden and the Taliban are finished alomg with the terorists and thier associates in Iraq and Iran, then we can relax our techniques. Of the eignt that died, I wonder how many of our own they killed before being captured? Somehow I don't feel so bad...But then again I was taught in the service of my country to kill to protect the freedom of un-patrotic liberals like you who want everything in America handed to them but aren't willing to fight to protect it themselfs.
Germany was not under attack in 1937 at the time they began inflicting toture on thier captives, so it was wrong and there lies the difference.
Did you forget 911? How liberal of you, dodo!
harley at 3:14PM on Jun 3rd 2007
6.
Good ole Cenk, always taking the moral high ground. The Bush Admin and Nazi Germany...two birds of a feature. I wonder how many Holocost survivers are comparing the Bush Admin to Nazi Germany.
To be honest with you Cenk, I don't care what we do to terrorists. They suicide and car bomb bus stops, embassies, schools, police stations, open markets, etc., etc. And they were doing this around the world before we into Iraq.
And they do this in the name of what? Palestine, destruction of Isreal, their version of Islam, hatred for western culture, religious influence...
Terrorist aren't any better than pirates of long ago. They mass murder for no one but themselves.
So like I said earlier, I couldn't care less what we do to terrorists.
Oh yeah, since you see a resemblence between the Bush Admin and Hitler's Germany, then it's easy to assume that you side with Saddam and the terrorist that the US is the Great Satan.
Willet at 10:12AM on Jun 1st 2007
7. I am continually amazed by comments such as " the terorists" have it coming, forgetting the fact that without a real trial, and a conviction we don't know who the terrorists are.
Are Americans really so ignorant of their own legal system, and why it developed the way it did?
Communists, and fascists take the quilty unti proven innocent, if you are lucky to get a trial approach. That is the Bush/Republican approach.
Democracies and Demcoracts take the innocent until proven quilty and right to a trial approach.
And torture is neither moral or decent. Besides according to the CIA and the 4 branches of our military it does not work. So be inhumane for no reason is the Repub battle cry; they love blood sport. In the next breathe they say they are Christians. Seems to me Christ was not really pro torture, knowing something about it as he did.
And how about the men who have been tortrue by USA in error? We know of two of them, that the CIA admitted they kidnapped, took to middle east countries for year long torture then realized their mistake. All you who are pro torture, are you ready to volunteer to take the same trip as those pooor men in retribution?
Betty at 9:55PM on Jun 11th 2007
8. "Enhanced Interrogation"
To say enhanced interrogation was first used by the Nazis is moronic. Torture has been used since the first time the strong impossed themsevles on the weak. One needs a really ugly partisan bias to bring the Nazis into this for the sole reason of comparision between Nazis and the Bush administration.
The ugly truth is enhanced interrogation is nothing new. The only thing new are liberals telling the world our government supports the abuse, torture and even the murder of our prisioners. (and yet they have no interest in proving it)
Many is the democrat president that has used enhanced interogation. Every damn country on the planet uses enhanced interogation. The only difference is how liberals are willing to turn our nation from a beacon of hope to the world to the biggest terrorist on the planet, and all to make Nancy the Speaker.
If enhanced interrogation is something new ... then where are the articles of impeachment? Clue: Liberals did all the lying and the last thing they want are impeachment hearings that prove it. And therein endth the lesson.
Thomas J Gassett at 5:13PM on Jun 1st 2007
9. Hillary For President!
tori at 12:34PM on Jun 2nd 2007
10. If you think torture is bad now, wait until Hilary becomes president and starts torturing republicans (or democrats that don't support the Clintonistas)
Then you really see torture.
Mike S at 4:37PM on Jun 2nd 2007
11. To those of you who support torture:
Your souls are gone. You lack any humanity whatsoever.
Torture doesn't work. Please provide ANY evidence that torture, or in your newspeak, 'enhanced interrogation techniques' (how orwellian can you get, you bushite sycophants?) works. You won't find any evidence, other than what you might come across in Vietnam or Nazi records.
Just because the 'terrorists' that we are torturing are 'bad guys' doesn't mean we have to lower ourselves to their level. Do you not understand that when you dehumanize another person, you lose your own humanity in the process?
You supporters of torture are no different than the people that allowed the Nazis to commit such horrible atrocities not so long ago in Germany. Hope that makes you feel good.
I'll tell you what. After you have provided evidence that torture works, why don't you go over to Iraq (after enlisting, of course), and try out your techniques over there? Then, come back and tell us all the wonderful intelligence that you gleaned from drowning people, sexually humiliating them, and perhaps killing them. After you get over the terrible dreams that haunt your every waking and sleeping moment, wherein the 'subhuman' people you tortured scream at you in eternal agony, THEN you can come lecture us about how we should torture people.
You disgusting jingoists make me sick.
Super Geek at 11:53AM on Jun 4th 2007
12. Obviously, there's a bunch of people on here who are conservatives, and most likely Republican, hence the use of the term 'liberals' so much. Gee, how surprising, a conservative standing up for a Republican administration.....
Also, there are some ridiculously naive people out there. To believe that our military and/or specialized law enforcement agencies do not use "xxx" torture techniques is preposterous. Please do not be that ignorant.
The US is a great country, but is not immune to the shortcomings of the countless self-inflated egos and aspirations of our country's leaders and upper level officials. Every govenment is subject to losing its effectiveness under the constant stress of corruption, greed, and ego. The US has been losing its current identity since the early 60's. Corruption and ambition has been steadily eating away the tenets of the Constitution ever since....
Adam at 11:00AM on Jun 10th 2007
13. I think it is "so sad" that we have a group of people in this country who have the privledge of living in a country that is by all standards "free" because we have men & women who are/and have been willing to give their very lives to protect our freedom (what the liberals haven't taken away)and yet they want to question the way it is done. I believe the movie "A few good men" says it best, if you don't like how it is being done you should grab a weapon and stand a watch otherwise,don't question how your freedom is provided...........
Ross
Ross Odom at 12:30PM on Jul 23rd 2007