31. Phil, give this a read:

http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=1059

mike at 3:04PM on Jun 5th 2007

32. Phil,

We, as a nation, beginning with you and me, need to understand how the control of our monetary system affects nearly every aspect of our lives. You’re obviously an intelligent person, and being a lawyer, you’re likely used to long, dry reads on seemingly “boring” subjects that would put most people to sleep after a single paragraph. I assure you, that for a thinking person who is willing to put aside their assumptions and approach a subject with a neutral mind, the following books will be interesting reads.

The Creature from Jekyll Island
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0912986212

The Case Against the Fed
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=094546617X

The Secrets of the Federal Reserve
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0965649210

Now, before you hand me the aluminum foil beanie, I don’t mean to imply by recommending these books that you, or anyone else who may read this, blindly accept what is written here as gospel and go off the deep end. But we should consider the argument presented here as one possible explanation for what is happening in this country, and see if that argument holds up under scrutiny. You can also type into Google the words "Jekyll Island" "Federal Reserve" (with the quotes) and see what pops up as a starting point. If you don’t know anything about the Fed, I guarantee you will be surprised at what you find. The antics of Walmart and Standard Oil will look like playful kittens compared to what these people have pulled off.

As for 9/11, I’m not so sure it matters how it happened, we need to move beyond it, never forget, but let’s move forward. In my opinion, a more interesting and productive use of our time is to look at what has come of that tragedy. Look at how politicians on both sides of the isle have capitalized on that event to restrict our freedoms and implement policies and practices that, before 9/11, would have caused a revolt in this country. Are we so easily manipulated by fear that the mere mention of some terrorist causes us to throw up our hands and surrender ourselves to an authoritarian state? Sadly, it would seem so. Is anyone in this country paying attention to what’s going on?

What terrifies me? Hearing any politician claim they are working in a “bi-partisan” way on just about anything. To me, that means they are of one mind, if the Republicans are evil, and have no doubt that they are, Democrats are just as evil, they just pander to different emotions. You say life under Clinton was better than life under Bush? That’s like saying getting clubbed is better than getting shot, ok, you’re right, but I’d like to avoid both. I subscribe to no party, I haven’t voted in over 20 years, the naiveté of youth wore off pretty quickly. As I see it, voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil, and I will not participate in that. I have never given money to a politician, ever! I won’t even give $3 on my tax return to the presidential campaign fund. This year I’m coming out of hibernation. I’ve already given $1000 to the Ron Paul campaign, and I intend to give more. I’m registering as a Republican for the first time in my life, I’m voting Republican for the first time in my life, and I’m voting for Ron Paul. There are a lot of people like me out there this time around, but will we make a difference? I don’t know, we’ll see about that. I don’t want or expect you to follow me. Phil needs to vote for the person or party that Phil feels most aligned with, and if your issue is "free" healthcare for all, so be it. You should know that we already have national healthcare for the poor, it’s called Medicaid, administered by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the same group that handles your coverage. While you may be satisfied with the care you’re receiving (good for you, sincerely!), go out and talk to Medicaid subscribers, and see how they feel about the care they receive.

Now, I personally did not call you a pinko commie, I referred to the socialist/communist propaganda machine that dupes caring people such as yourself into believing their lies about how to save the poor proletariat trash. Look up the Communist Manifesto online, read the ten planks, and see for yourself just how closely it mirrors the services we have in this country. We have the most bizarre hybrid of competing ideologies, with some of the worst elements of both Communism and Fascism (sometimes referred to as corporatism, by the way), fused into something uniquely American.

I too have done fabulously for myself as a software engineer, but I consider confiscation of money from my pay, using the threat of force, to be stealing, plain and simple. It is taken without my consent, and in my opinion, is more often used to harm people, than to help them. I have heard the arguments stating that classical liberal philosophy as espoused by whack jobs like Thomas Jefferson, Ron Paul and others, is a cold-hearted and cruel ideology. I disagree with that, and here’s the difference.

Those who would confiscate our money using force see only the worst in us as individuals, arguing that Americans have the coldest of hearts, worthless pieces of greedy, self-centered trash that must be coerced into handing over money in the name of charity, and then they turn around and give it to the very people who need it the least. While people like Ron Paul see us as warm hearted, trusting us as individuals to do the right thing with our money. Sure, if left to our own devices, some might make big piles of money on the floor and roll naked in it, but that’s their choice, and they have the right to make it. I believe in the people of this country, caring people like yourself, and millions of others in this country who realize that we have a responsibility to one another to make this world a better place, it wouldn’t even take a majority. Think how much money you have given away to the government each year, now multiply that by one million people in our tax bracket, 1/300th of the population. How much food, clothing, shelter, and yes even healthcare would that pay for each year if we directed those funds solely at solving the problems of those in need?

The government collected almost $1 trillion from personal income tax in 2005 (not including corporate income tax, state tax, social security, Medicare, sales tax, excise tax, gasoline tax, luxury tax, sin tax, licenses, registrations, or the myriad other taxes we pay each year). Why are we still having this debate, unless something has gone horribly wrong with our system of government? Maybe people like myself are the deluded ones, believing in such a Utopian fantasyland, but it worked in this country for almost 100 years before our power was usurped. I say we give it another try.

Theo at 3:12PM on Jun 5th 2007

33. Who IS Ron Paul? They still need to know!!
NOBODY explains Ron Paul
BETTER than Ron Paul himself!

Here is an interactive audio archive of
Ron Paul speeches and interviews as a resource in chronological
order.

http://www.ronpaulaudio.com

goldenequity at 4:03PM on Jun 5th 2007

34. Phil has a problem, guys: he can only offer emotive pleas, strawmen, and repeat economic lies and economic fallacies. He can believe that capitalism means dog-eat-dog, kill-everyone-who-a-company-doesn't-like, poisoned-air-and-water, only-a-handful-of-rich-and-everyone-else-lives-in-hovels, everyone-who-isn't-rich-dies-of-horrid-diseases if he wants; that won't make it fact. All he does is expose himself to be as ignorant as the person who says "if evolution is true, and we came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?".

So Phil: if you want to let us all know how little economic knowledge you have--you did a good job.

Knight_of_BAAWA at 4:01PM on Jun 5th 2007

35. Greg, I wanted to thank you for your support in carrying on our national discourse without personal attacks. I hope you're still reading. I've also read every post except one, because the poster is one of two people on my "no read" list out of hundreds because of (in my opinion)the propensity to personally attack which I think is a conversation chiller. I will save all the links kindly provided, and read them as I can (political commenting and I only met when Bush started - I've got other things that need attending too).

Mike and Theo, you are right that I am to a large degree a product of the undergraduate degree I got in 1978. First I went two years at Indiana University but mainly was focused on partying and dealing with all the detritus from coming out and both reveling in it and being traumatized by the sheer aloneness of being a tiny group in the center of an enormous hostile majority. But then I moved to SF, and got my bachelors degree at San Francisco State University, which back then was like Communist U. I'm sure many ideas have been internalized by me, and also from living in an area where there were no Republican candidates, only Dems of varying degree of liberalism and the Green Party. Now I'm in the heavy Dem part of Southeast, Fla.

Theo, I particularly thought you brought up some extremely interesting issues in a masterfully written comment. Even though it would be one of the ultimate crimes against humanity if true, really the focus should not be on who actually committed 9/11 but on the present reality of the utter mess we're in now. Present issues are too urgent and the courts can deal with it later on their own unless there is a pardon.

You also brought up being terrified of bi-partisan cooperation and that is SPECIFICALLY why I mentioned the Pelosi email and my Democratic Congresswoman's attempt to ignore the lack of legislation to date revoking tax benefits to outsource jobs. However, for the common man, nothing to me could be worse for the middle class American than the Republican party or Ron Paul. Speaking of taxes, cudos to you on your 1/300 - I know that to achieve that (as opposed to having someone just give it to you) takes talent, inventiveness, incentive and a lot of hard work. You did better than me. I think I hit 4/300 at my peak and will hopefully be a steady 12/300 in the entirety of my retirement.

Theo, I have both objectively witnessed and the difference in treatment between a Medicare patient and a Medicaid patient based on poverty who is limited to a public hospital.

Out here in "paradise" (the AC will be on now for six months as well as the attempt to get inside QUICK when you're out), I can choose virtually anyplace and most physicians, and pay a premium for that. Last year I instantaneous sepsis twice. The first time was on a weekend and I went to the hospital tied to my primary care physician (the best I've ever had) and it was a public hospital, but supposedly good. All of the nurses, etc were public employees. It was just awful. I promptly switched to the best private hospital and when I got sepsis again the difference in quality and caring was SO noticeable. In Sf its even worse. San Francisco General treats its patients like animals as I've witnessed only - its bleak, but the AIDS clinic is top notch. But national healthcare does not have to be that way. John Edwards offers a plan that starts with the bare bones Medicaid misery and allows Americans to buy up, with outsourcing to the private sector on a BID basis (no more no bid contracts).

Anyway, I'll remain a Democrat. Federal legislation is needed to enforce basic constitutional rights and control interstate commerce; and it always trumps state law under the Supremacy Clause. My committed goal is turn the federal government blue, and I think that most of America will be ecstatic.

That certainly doesn't mean I'm condemning you. How could I? You all seem extremely intelligent and are a totally different breed than our two party system, and very well read on the topic. Our basic priorities and desired end result, however, are simply different. So this will be my last comment on this, but I may check in from time to time and see what you all are saying to each other - as I may learn something. Thanks for the intro to a polical belief I've never taken the time to look into - its illuminating and interesting.

Phil at 6:09PM on Jun 5th 2007

36. Ron Paul won the debate and so far he gets my vote. How refreshing to hear someone with ideals and ideas on how to fix some of America's problems.

Charlote at 9:20AM on Jun 6th 2007

37. The Daily Show appearance was a great way to penetrate the public conscience, but this is a horrible venue for Dr. Paul. The man knows what the problems are, he has the solutions, and you just can't discuss real solutions in a 5 minute interview. The morning of the debate, Dr. Paul had an absolutely great Exchange interview with New Hampshire Public Radio, you can find it in the archives for June at:

http://www.nhpr.org/archive/2007/6/term/15001

Direct Links to the interview are:

Windows Media
http://www.nhpr.org/audio/audio/ex-2007-06-05.wax

MP3
http://www.nhpr.org/audio/audio/ex-2007-06-05.m3u

Enjoy!

Theo at 11:56PM on Jun 6th 2007