If literary critic Stanley Fish deconstructed anything, one might expect him to deconstruct Christianity. Instead Fish uses his unquestioned rhetoric skills to deconstruct atheism. Fish takes up the argument, advanced by Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, that belief in God is a kind of evasion. We avoid the responsibilities of this life by putting our hopes in another life. Religion makes us do crazy things.
Fish takes as an example of the Harris-Hitchens-Dawkins critique the behavior of Christian in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. Christian becomes aware that he is carrying a huge burden on his back (Original Sin) and he wants to get rid of it. Another fellow named Evangelist tells him to "flee the wrath to come." Evangelist points Christian in the direction of a shining light. But Christian can't clearly see the light. Still, he begins to run in that direction. Bunyan describes his wife and children who "began to cry after him to return, but the man put his fingers in his ears and ran on, crying Life! Life! Eternal Life!"
For Harris, Hitchens and Dawkins, this is precisely the kind of crazy behavior that religion produces. Here is a man abandoning his duties and chasing after something he isn't even sure about. Fish writes, "I have imagined this criticism coming from outside the narrative, but in fact it is right there on the inside." Bunyan not only has Christian's wife and children imploring him to return, he also has Christian's friends struggling to make sense of his actions.
Fish comments, "What this shows is that the objections Harris, Dawkins and Hitchens make to religious thinking are themselves part of religious thinking. Rather than being swept under the rug of a seamless discourse, they are the very motor of that discourse." Citing the atheists' portrait of religion as unquestioning obedienece, Fish writes, "I know of no religious framework that offers such a complacement picture of the life of faith, a life that is always presented as a minefield of difficulties, obstacles and temptations that must be negotiated by a limited creature in the effort to become aligned with the Infinite."
Fish's conclusion: while religious people over the centuries have dug deeply into the questions of life, along come our shallow atheists who present arguments as if they first thought of them, arguments that Christians have long examined with a seriousness and care that is missing in contemporary atheist discourse. We can expect our unbelieving trio to react with their trademark scorn, but Fish has scored a telling point.
Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 17)
76. My question is," Why does God continually hide for us?" He is God and has the ability to prove his omnipotence,why not do it. Christianity is a scrambled eggs. No amount of dialogue can change that. Because the egg is scrambled, we add cheese, bacon bits, onions, or whatever we need at the time to rationalize events in our lives. Myself, being born into a devote Christian family, learned at an early age to add whatever ingredients I needed to rationalize my rationalization.
Norman at 6:51AM on Jun 28th 2007
77. It strikes me as faulty thinking when Athiests claim that they do not believe in God because there is no proof that God exists. They are confusing belief with rational thought, the very thing they accuse a believers of.
The most anyone can say from a rational perspective is that no one really knows because God's existance cannot be proved one way or another.
It seems to me that it is the intolerance of not knowing that people can't stand. The atheist's pat answer is just as pat as the blind faith response.
What we don't know could fill a number of books we would be unable to count.
I am speaking rationally of course, and then there are those inexplicable events in some people's lives that open doors to other realms and spiritual experience that cannot be rationally explained away.
Here is an interesting multiple choice question.
__ I Believe in God
__ I believe there is a God
__ I don't believe there is a God
__ I know there is a God
__ I know there is not a God
__ I haven't the vaguest idea
__ I could care less
__ The religion I practice applies to none of the above.
__ I don't know if there is a God or not, but I sure hope so.
amused at 7:19AM on Jun 28th 2007
78. thisServingSeeKINGfollower KNOWS this...
The UN.i.VERSE Matthew 12/30,
'if ONE is NOTwithMe(YOUmyCreatorCHRISTJESUS+)
ONE is AGAINSTme (YOUmyCreatorCHRISTJESUS)
is howhy ONE is judged;
by our words ONE is justified;
by our words ONE is condemned. Matthew 12/37
the walk MUST begin, because
the walk MUST be.
john aloysious munce 3rd at 8:02AM on Jun 28th 2007
79. When one Knows (capital âKâ) then one is effectively unteachable. I suggest that both threads in this classic debate debase their position when they weave straw men. Surely science is no more a slave to certainty than faith. There is a very old idea that suggests that the righteously self-described atheist is very close indeed to the intolerant and unseeking fundamentalist. Pots and kettles. The wise in both camps take the more sensible position that there is ever more to learn. st
meherestillalways at 8:28AM on Jun 28th 2007
80. I have to say that there is obviously a higher struggle than anyone is aware of if this is such a "hot topic". I am a non denominational Christian who only believes in the bible. I put my faith in GOD not doctrines. But I will say this, I once heard a very wise Christian tell a non-believer that if at the end of life the non believer was right about his beliefs that he (the Christian) had lost nothing, But that if Christ was right he (the non-believer) had lost everything! I would just add this, Christianity does nothing if not promote a lifestyle that is conducive to moral living and accountability, when you take that out of the equation, people are left with a gap feeling that nothing they do will matter anyway and in my opinion makes such individuals more apt to commit violent and or heinous acts because there is no final judgement. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ATHIESTS ARE CRIMINALS! So do not attack me, I am aware that people that claim to be christians do morally wrong things. All people will always sin and fall short of the Glory of GOD, which is why we needed Christ to die for our sins and stand in the gap for us. My God and Saviour is as real to me as the ground that I walk on. He has proven himself to me so many times in my life that I would be a fool not to believe. So I will close in saying that I hope that God would reveal himself in such a powerful way to anyone who is searching that you would doubt no more.
The great thing is that even if you don't believe in God, He still beleives in You!
initialfaith1 at 9:00AM on Jun 28th 2007
81. If the atheists are correct, then a Christian has probably missed out on some things in life due to being a servant of Christ. In the end we have no soul and all end up in the same place. But, if the Christians are right, everyone else is in big trouble. I guess we could consider Christianity as an After-Life Insurance Policy?
RDelSardo at 9:09AM on Jun 28th 2007
82. "Nuts," to all of you! It is an individuals experience of the Universe and his or her reaction to it that counts. Believers AND nonbelievers, on BOTH sides of the equation have done incredible and countless injuries to the human condition. WHATEVER the malady that infects and plagues our existence on THIS planet EARTH, the remedy is STILL the same.
As this "Christ" said,"PHYSICIAN,HEAL YOURSELF!"
SERGE F. G.
Serge Guinier at 1:08AM on Jun 29th 2007
83. What would I have "missed out" on? Binge drinking, drug addiction, promiscuous sexual activity, stealing, cheating.....etc? The Christian lifestyle promotes all that is good for the body and soul, so one would not have to miss out on anything. God says in his word that he witholds no good thing from His Children. You tell me what GOOD things I may have missed out on by serving Christ? And I serve Christ because he first "served" me!
initialfaith1 at 9:39AM on Jun 28th 2007
84. For everyone here please be frustrated no more, you can learn the answers to your heartfelt questions from Bhagavad-gita, such as who you are, an eternal spirit soul that inhabits your body which is why your body is alive and everything alive has a soul. Life comes from life, not chemicals. Otherwise we could bring back the dead with an injection of chemicals or replacement of broken parts. The car doesn't drive without a driver and a body doesn't move without a soul. This is why when someone dies we say "Oh he's gone." And the material body will also be gone afterwards, back to the material elements from which it came. A child in the womb is also a spirit soul even though its body may not be ready to live outside the womb. If the fetus were dead, no soul present, it couldn't grow in the womb, but when it is alive it does, and not under the mother's total control either because otherwise there would never be an ugly or handicapped child. Therefore abortion is murder, forcing a soul to involuntarily and prematurely leave the body. Sometimes babies die naturally in the womb and have to be surgically removed, but that is not murder for the soul had already left.
na jayate mriyate va kadacin
nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah
ajo nityah sasvato yam purano
na hanyate hanyamane sarire Bhagavad-gita 2.20
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death. It is eternal and ever-youthful. When the body is destroyed the soul is not destroyed."
We are that soul and we have come to this material world to forget God and to try and enjoy independently from Him. Hence there are atheists, especially in this era of Kali, the age of quarrel and hypocrisy. Fortunately after accumulating credit for many pious deeds over many lifetimes we become eligible to hear and understand the Absolute Truth and thus begin our journey to the spiritual world, Vaikuntha (Place of No Fear), where there is no death, ignorance, old age, disease, war, poverty, and whatever else makes for misery in this material world. That journey will take us to diverse cultures and their religions which is one reason why people are born in different places. But if we choose to remain atheistic and/or impious we will meander among the different species of life, the true meaning of evolution.
The soul doesn't need to evolve, rather it is the subtle body: mind, intelligence, and false ego (the idea that we are this body) which is constantly evolving and transmigrating to different bodies. The soul is even transmigrating in our present body for according to "science" a human body has a completely new set of cells about every seven years. Historically, bodies have changed somewhat over time but not to the extent that a frog becomes a bird or a monkey becomes a man. Where is the scientifc evidence that this so-called evolution as taught in schools is valid? In other words show us the remains of bodies that are half monkey and half man and others that are two-thirds man and one-third monkey and so forth. And show us where this is true for all progrssions through "evolution." Plus, if you believe life comes from chemicals or whatever else besides life itself, then why has life not been made or restored from chemicals etc? To say that it might happen in the future is not scientific.
So if you are ready to move on from mental speculation and sentimentality to the science of the Absolute Truth as presented in Bhagavad-gita As It Is and other Vedic literatures by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja please visit a Hare Krishna center or purebhakti.com
Haribol!
To kill that child (abortion) is therefore murder
Haladharadasa at 9:49AM on Jun 28th 2007
85. Excelent witness for Christ. Please put me on your mailing list. George Bruce
George Bruce at 10:34AM on Jun 28th 2007
86. Atheists seems to be so concerned about the need of Christains to believe in a Supreme Being, yet do they not believe in Something or Someone themselves? It doesn't hurt anyone to follow a decent, loving, and moral lifestyle. An atheists believes in themself, and THIER OWN way to go, (FREEDOM of CHOICE, just like Christians!!!), so why attack someone else on their choice?
I think this whole blog thing here is very immature by the atheists and Christian alike, as we all know we'll not be able to budge the boulder someone else has allowed to take over their life!
It isn't always religion that causes problems and persecution in the life of a Christian, but the non-believer does, too!
I'm a Christian and proud of it! And...glad that God has given us FREEDOM of Choice, just like our country has!
LMatthews at 10:22AM on Jun 28th 2007
87. "Dear sweet Jesus on a donkey, Knight! It's people like you tht make it impossible for atheism to prosper."
Wrong.
"Every time you refute people's arguments with simplistic, monosyllabic semi-statements, you cement this image of the arrogant, aloof, unlearned antitheist in the minds of hundreds of theists."
No, I don't.
Hint: when you make unsupported assertions, gainsaying is proper. I have no need to go into a detailed refutation of something which is just an assertion without backing. That's something you need to learn.
"We get it! You don't like god or religion. Don't rub our faces in you smug self-superiority."
*yawn*
"I'm an atheist and you make me want to find a pitchfork and torch and hunt myself down."
You're not an atheist.
"Can't we let all these grudges go?"
As soon as idiots like Dinesh, Fish, and the rest decide they're going to stop slandering and libelling atheists.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 10:27AM on Jun 28th 2007
88. To MrWiteKES
" I need help understanding atheism. To me, it seems like a paradox,"
How is that?
" and I don't need to hear how religion is a paradox. I know it is. But the lack of religion or belief is still a belief."
That's like saying a lack of socks is still having socks.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 10:29AM on Jun 28th 2007
89. " Yes there is a God, supreme personality of Godhead, whose primary name is Lord Krishna"
And the smurf-worshippers come out. Oh joy.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 10:32AM on Jun 28th 2007
90. "It strikes me as faulty thinking when Athiests claim that they do not believe in God because there is no proof that God exists. They are confusing belief with rational thought, the very thing they accuse a believers of."
No, they're using rational thought. Lack of evidence where evidence is expected is evidence of lack.
Do you really need an example? It will only make you feel ashamed at how dumb you are.
"I am speaking rationally of course, and then there are those inexplicable events in some people's lives that open doors to other realms and spiritual experience that cannot be rationally explained away."
Yes they can. You've just used the argument from ignorance fallacy.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 10:34AM on Jun 28th 2007