61. The immigration issue is far to complicated to boil down to a bad/good issue. My own town has been destroyed by immigrants, they brought down wages, rent, and services. But political correctness stops anyone from saying, "the emperor has no clothes".

Delores at 9:53PM on Jun 29th 2007

62. One point to consider, since these illegals have entered our country by breaking existing laws, and have continually done so, what makes anyone believe that new laws would suddenly be obeyed?
The bill which was soundly defeated, and rightly so, would have mandated a five-thousand dollar fine payment from each and every illegal; then they would gain a temporary work card and be required to return to their place of origin after two years while becoming eligable for citizenship after thirteen years. DUUUUH???
OK, so please MO Rocca, since I am so unable to maintain concentration or suffer from ADD-YOU say we Americans cannot follow all the complicated points pertaining to this issue.Naah ugh! You may suffer with that deficiency, however most of us can and would do so were all such bits of information provided.
Mo, your own quotidian blather is wholly sequacious in it's overt ,simplistic dialogue. Exactly to what do you owe your quowarranto office on this bully pulpit blog to depreciate the intelligence of your readers?
Mo Rocca, king of nugacity, nothing too important not to be trivialized, including the American reading public.
Hey Mo Rocca, Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me-the entire article is intended as pun.

Steve at 9:14PM on Jun 28th 2007

63. Should I pay the way of someone who breaks into my home and refuses to leave, insisting that I shelter, feed, and educate himself and his family at my expense, simply because they are good people who don't break any other laws and just want to better themselves, and they are willing to clean my toilet?


Why, oh, WHY does someone who comes here illegally feel entitled to the same rights and privileges as people who were born here or who go through the proper channels? JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE PEOPLE???

Try that logic in nearly any other country in the world!

jessmarroyo at 9:44PM on Jun 28th 2007

64. After reading the comments, I read this post again because I thought I had missed something. I understood the post as more of a Bush bashing (albeit a well deserved bashing, based on facts) rather than an insult to my intelligence. I am confused by all the ranting and raving by some.

By the way, does anyone know of a good rehab for blog addiction?

giftedgirl at 10:01PM on Jun 28th 2007

65. Perhaps we should consider phasing in an immigration bill. First, let us secure the border and prevent any more illegal aliens from entering the country. Second, let's expand the number of LEGAL Mexicans we let in (to work and then go back to Mexico) These legal workers should be issued identification by the US that is impossible to duplicate or forge, and be required to show it to obtain a job. Companies that hire aliens should be required to confirm the legality of the person wanting a job prior to hiring and should be heavily fined (say 25,000.00 per person and jail time for company exects and owners for repeated violation of the law) for hiring illegal aliens. Once we secure the borders, cut off jobs for illegal aliens, and make jobs available for those in the country legally then we can deal with the upteen millions her illegally. Until then, enforce the laws we have, and deport those we do find here illegally

Jerry at 10:38PM on Jun 28th 2007

66. In addition: if the Repuplican's are primarily responsible for the defeat of the so called immigration bill, and if the majority of the people are against that bill in its present form, then how is it the the Democrats are drooling about their chances to gain more power in Congress and capture the White House when they are the very ones pushing a bill that most of us don't like. Seems to me the Republicans have done a good thing

Jerry at 10:45PM on Jun 28th 2007

67. What the politicians just don't seem to "get" is that AMERICANS do not want to learn Spanish to keep their jobs, or hear the Spanish language spoken and see signs in Spanish.
If we stop providing education, housing, free everything that decent law abiding Americans can't even get, then they will go back because there is nothing free for them here. That is what AMERICANS want. Now do you get it? Pretty simple.

michelle at 10:47PM on Jun 28th 2007

68. Let's see, as one whose father is an American of German (and who know what else) decent and a mother whose grandparents were Scotch/Irish and Cherokee, I guess I get to say anything about immigrants I would like? Oh by the way, all of them came here legally except for my great grandmother whose people were already here.

So wow this is too good, from the blog writer to half the people making comments....the total lack of understanding is unbelievable and then you wonder why it has to be keep simple. hahahah This is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATANTS-people who are here without the knowledge and consent of the people or the government of the United States Of America....

H.S. all I can sa is HAHAAHHAAHAHAH you're a clown who doesn't have a clue.

Mu get over it, your here now and legal. Many ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS do not pay taxes, they are day labors, construction and yard workers. They don't pay taxes because the business owners don't want to pay the matching contribution....yours is only 1/2 the amount the government wants. Plus, once you start putting people on payroll you have to start reporting and monitoring statistics of the government and paperwork cost the business time and labor. Add to that, that even those paying some taxes consume as much or more in tax payer services. Interesting, many Illegal Immigrants are victims for their own crime as they are taken advantage of on many levels. Oh and you may want to lose the caps, it is so "angry citizen"

E- get a grip, ask your parents why they broke the law and put you in this situation. Perhaps you would be happier in the country of their origin, get a drivers licence and enjoy the good life. By the way congratulations on graduating from high school that puts you ahead of a lot of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who flow into the country who never "got no schoolin" or become part of the 40% drop out rate. Yet, what would your English teacher think of your language, moth-f-ng, WASP, REDNECKS. Oh well you did spell them right, I guess.

For all the rest of you that just don't get it, this is about insuring that immigration is for the benefit of the country, that is based on need, logic and the greater good of the American way of life.....or yes, dare I say it- trust justice and the American way of life.

Old Teddy Kennedy ask for another plan, well I think there are many voices that have given one but he really isn't listening...he may still have water in his ears from the drive a few years back...did someone say vehicular homicide....oh parish the thought!



1. Secure the borders, all of them.
2. Come up with a tamper proof ID.
3. Fine all businesses that hire legals out of business. Then watch a large percentage of the 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal immigrants disappear.
4. Set up a guest worker program that registers and monitors all the workers and if they are over the expiration of the visa, pick them up, send them home and don't let them come back-ever.
5. Put a legal immigration system in place that allows only those individuals that bring needed skills or values to the country. Family relationships should be only a small factor and extended family immigration is out of the question. We need the brightest and best the world has to offer. we need those people that want to come here, melt into the system and continue to make this the greatest country the world has ever seen. All others "need not apply."

Anyway, it has been fun.

RER at 10:50PM on Jun 28th 2007

69. What is it about ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS that people don't get? As for who will do the work, let the farm workers in to do the jobs and then let the employer be responsible to see that they return home. In Tennessee 8 to 10 years ago all yard work was done by high school and college kids, now 80% is done by ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. So much about that reason. As for that they are due health care just go to any emergency room and you will see free health care in action.

jjstanfield at 10:57PM on Jun 28th 2007

70. I'm with liz, lets keep paying them slave wages cause thats all their worth anyway.

thopper at 11:50PM on Jun 28th 2007

71. I guess most of you forgot that the Democraps and liberals have been pushing for open borders for a long time and Bush is not the only culprit here. Also all you folks that think Bush is Dumb ain't thinking. As far as everyone saying it was a Bush failure are leaving out the fact that it is also a big loss for Teddy as well. What I can't understand are the folks who think a wall or fence is such a big deal. The very people that don't like it probably have a wall or fence around their house. I know the Kennedys do. Try to get close to their home in Hyannisport, or the one where his nephew had a pre ejaculation trying to fornicate with a girl on the Kennedy private beach in Florida. The fact is that we the people don't object to the good parts of the bill. We the people object to the bad parts of the bill that was concocted in secret and ultimately was intended to run through the Senate without debate. I quess they knew that if the deal was exposed to the public it would fail. Thank God we have talk shows or we would have never known about it. Fact is that the guys who tried to make it happen are so arrogant as to think we the people are so dumb as not to know a con job when we see it. Seems to me that their heads are getting to big for their hats. Especially that Kennedy guy.

al at 11:27PM on Jun 28th 2007

72. I'm so glad this four hundred page piece of s### didn't pass !!! When George Bush and Ted Kennedy agree to shove something like this down our throats it is obvious neither has the brains nor the integrity to justify his actions. One doesn't need to spend more time wondering about their motives. They stink all the way to Denver.

ron at 11:32PM on Jun 28th 2007

73. Mo claims three numbers and a slash got Bush elected. What's so ironic and amusing is that the entire campaign strategy of the Democrats to defeat Bush in '00 was four little letters D-U-M-B. They offered no ideas, they simply called Bush dumb for a year. In their infinite wisdom when it didn't work the first time they tried it again in '04. That is the Democrats in a nutshell - no platform, no ideas - their only strategy is to complain and condemn the other side while offering no ideas of their own. On immigration, it's not complicated, no amnesty and secure the borders.

Robert Byngham at 11:48PM on Jun 28th 2007

74. I think everyone just needs to get along. Everyone except the Native Americans are immigrants. This country everybody thinks is so great was founded by immigrants searching for a better life. Where would we be if we would've never been allowed here b/c we were illegal. It's just a bunch of bs. These men come here and do the grunt work that us lazy americans won't do. My cousin owns his own buissness. He has to place ads at the unemployment office when he needs workers. Do you know how many people respond? NONE. His guys work 7 days a week sun up to sun down. They do a 3 week job in a week and a half and the do an excellent job. I say again cant we all just get along.

j at 11:49PM on Jun 28th 2007

75. Excuse this rant, but know that it is dispassionate.
This immigration bill was a terrible idea, but not for the reasons most people cite. My issue is not something in the bill, but something it cuts: the GI-B exemption. Nicknamed the Genius Exemption, it allows doctors, enigineers, scientists, MAs, PHDs, and even enormous IQs or great humanitarians to be fasttracked into citizenship. While only 2% of immigration according to Charles Krauthammer, this is the most important part of immigration, bringing in the fresh talent this country needs and rewarding the geniuses who make history and shape civilization.
This bill eliminates the exemption, which means that future Gandhis, Edisons, and Einsteins have to wait in line with everyone else, and maybe not even attain citizenship. This, besides being a complete slap in the face of logic, completely defeats the whole purpose of immigration, bringing in and rewarding fresh talent, and alone is enought to kill this bill.
In fact, the entire proposal of even partial amnesty is self-defeating. What amnesty proponents refuse to recognize is that this bill and the immigrants it concerns are merely pawns in a global chess match that came into stark illumination at DOHA: the agricultural battle between rich and poor nations.
Poor nations are agriculturally based, with little or no industrial capital. So they attempt to sell food for financial or direct industrial capital from which they can build the foundations of industrial capitalism and national wealth. In this sector they logically should outcompete rich nations due to extensive farmland and cheap labor. However, rich nations, particularly Europe and America (though Japan is notorious for this too) raise enormous tarriffs against foreign agricultural goods, and subsidize their farming bases, both to grow and not grow food. The result is a virtual locking out of poor farming products. Third-world farmers lose the only source of capital available to them, so many grow on subsistence alone. Those who can afford to export goods do so by muscling others off their land to gain mass capital, paying terrible wages to cover markup, and maintain their funds by brutal repression by military force. The poor respond in the only ways they can, through crime, depression, and bare-bones existence, since they have no wages, basically. The result is a large population of dispossessed individuals pitted against an elite oligarchy backed by a military that is powerful and brutal by necessity. The only middle class in such countries are the small cadre of store owners who suffer injustice from both groups, and who keep not-so-proverbial kung fu grips on their money by running the stores through family lines, ending social mobility. Education does not exist because, with no social mobility, it has no purpose. Meanwhile the rich nations also suffer, as mass subsidies and tarriffs combine to raise the costs of food, textiles, and any product requiring thos items. Not to mention the subsidies come out of our tax dollars.
Illegals makes this problem much, much worse. Agribusiness actually uses their illegal status not just to cuts wages but to evade taxes and gain more clout in Congress with the added profits. It also breaks the cardinal rule of capitalism: never have a consistent flow of workers when there is no competition, since management then has no reason to treat its workers well. The proposed bill, by calling for a guest-worker program, would merely validate the current system and strip illegals who come to work in our fields of the opportunities they deserve, since all a manager would have to do would be wait until his workers approached their application deadlines, then fire those close to attaining citizenship and "hire a fresh one". To put icing on the cake, the bill requires proof of employmeny for citizenship (i think it does, not sure) if so, Pedro just got fired. APPLICATION REJECTED!!! Amnesty is actually the worst deal for illegals, not to mentoin us. Everyone loses. Poor nations lose as subsidies prevent transition to the modern world. Rich nations lose due to the grip of a modern latifundia on our agricultural descisions. Taxpayers pay higher taxes, retail stores pay more than they should, most American goods cost more as the additional funds prevent the breaking of said subsidies, and even Agribusiness loses, since a continuous cheap labor force forestalls, as in the Roman Empire and Confederate South, mechanical and biological advances. We all lose.
And we will continue to lose until we learn from history. Proponents of our current farming system say that our farmers will lose out. They forget what happened with Japan and Germany: as their standards of living rose due to industrialization, the trade balance shifted. They also forget that industial populations explode, so our farmers will have enough demand for food soon enough. Agribusiness will only lose money and clout it never should have economically had. A singleminded, ruthless reduction in tariffs combined with tight enforcement of border security, strengthening of existing laws against employing illegals, and massive cuts in farming subsidies that would make Ayn Rand happy would drain agribusiness of the money it needs to retain its hold on the system, as a dual pincer of furious African and South American competition, as their farmers fight to gain the economic niche that is rightfully theirs, and the subsequent draining of cheap labor from the american farming pool, saps the political clout of agricultural protectionists.
And look what will happen. As agricultural nations gain more capital, they will industrialize, or face economic stagnation. With industrialization comes an eventual, slow, but inevitable increase in education and standard of living. Which increases foreign currency value. Which strengthens our farmers to sell goods. Which eliminates trade deficits. Our former illegals, hopefully back in their country, or more likely would-be illegals, now find farming their own land profitable, and their economy booms. Populations grow. Our farmers now have foreign customers. And we get lower taxes, lower food prices, and lower retail costs on top of it all. Everybody wins.
Congress, are you game?
Thanks for hearing my rant.
-Mike

Michael at 11:57PM on Jun 28th 2007