A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 33)
1. Can you change from being straight, Dinesh?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
If one can "choose" to stop being homosexual, one can also "choose" to stop being heterosexual. Can you do that, Dinesh?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Keep your hate to yourself.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 10:24AM on Jun 28th 2007
2. It is true that humans are different from other mammals in our sexual make up. Other mammals have little interest in sex except in response to specific odors produced by their species when in esterus.(small yappy dogs that hump legs are a notable exception) Human sexuality is a complex physio-psychological phenomenon.
That being said there is the matter of whether a person can "choose" to change their Physio-psychological make up. The evidence so far is that it can rarely if ever be changed no matter how badly someone might want to be "different".
The old argument of nature verses nuture will rage on ,but whether nature or nuture shaped us most of us are quite simply stuck being who we are.
Darkmanwp at 10:48AM on Jun 28th 2007
3. I'm gay, as far as I can remember, I've always been gay. My younger brother and sister are both gay as well. On my dad's side of the family there are others from different generations that are gay. So, it seems to me that it's genetic. And who are you to say there aren't alot of gays in Greece and Rome today. I've known my fare share of homosexuals from Europe. So you and all those damn radical christians should just give it a rest already!
Stephen frm Alabama at 10:58AM on Jun 28th 2007
4. amazing how in this day and age, you reach your conclusion with this one fact. one would think an educated person would look at many tests and possible reasons yet you take one fact from old greek and roman times to come up with your decision. please, don't waste our time.
rich jhin at 11:02AM on Jun 28th 2007
5. Knight_of_BAAWA, if you think hes hating on gay people, then your just a retard or you have a hard time reading english. He isnt lying about anything, these are actual facts. If they hurt your homossexuality, and force you to accept that perhaps you are gay because YOU WANT TO, and its all because of you...then you should save your drama for your mamma.
Ze at 11:05AM on Jun 28th 2007
6. Why is someone stating their opinion considered "hate"? That's a stupid way to try to rebut someone's thoughts. I don't think the argument about the Greeks makes a whole lot of sense, but that's no reason to assume hatred is behind it.
Dan at 11:06AM on Jun 28th 2007
7. I believe that you cannot choose your orientation but you can choose to honor what your body should do with sex. It's not right for a heterosexual to have sex outside of marriage (and they may never be married for that matter) then it is not right for a homosexual to have sex outside of marriage. Should they allowed to be married? Marriage was not designed for the same sex.
If we are truthful, there are people that sometimes choose a particular lifestyle because they are looking for adventure and a different pleasure--so thus not all homosexuals are born.
Renee at 11:07AM on Jun 28th 2007
8. With a name like Dinesh I'd assume you aren't from the cornbelt. But I could be wrong, that being said don't you think your time studying queers could better be used studying why we have children starving to death in the world. If you or your family are from India or some foreign country wouldn't you like to be of assistance to that country to help understand and cure that issue? I've always found that individuals who are so overtly concerned about gays themselves are living soley in Gina Heights my friend. You might be looking to crusise Homo Alley sometime soon. LOL Why are we so focused on GAYS? I'm Gay and could care less about what you are doing sexually. Let's start paying attention to some of the real issues in the world!!! They are numerous last I looked.
steve at 11:09AM on Jun 28th 2007
9. Why is it that when ever straight men try to discuss homosexuality - pederasty and pedophilia accompany the discussion? How many older straight men wouldnt go for a 'virginal' high school girl? But that's acceptable? Im gay and personally I and those I associate with would rather have a 'meal' than a 'snack'.
c. gotshall at 11:10AM on Jun 28th 2007
10. Let's get down to the reality of the world. Most men are attracted to men in some form or another, but don't identify with the "gay" label. Um, hercules movies, tarzan, ufc, guys are whacking off to that stuff in their private life all the time. We are attracted to the best of our gender. Domination, masculinity, etc. Same for women I would suppose. Oh, and as far as this article is concerned, no one chooses their desires. They are a combination of genetics and environment.
Victor at 11:10AM on Jun 28th 2007
11. I don't understand poster #1 and his response. D'Souza was not being hateful in any way. If anything, he was downplaying the differences, innate or otherwise, between homo and hetero. To me, there are only two kinds of sexuality - male and female. Now THOSE are worlds apart! I know plenty of "straight" men who don't like women at all, and plenty of gay men who do, which is exactly the point. Who you share your physical person with is less important than where your
head - and your heart - is when you're doing it. "Sexuality", as in biological reproduction, has to be between male and female, yes, but everything else is just love. Or not.
Samsara at 11:14AM on Jun 28th 2007
12. How about talking about what science can prove rather than what history might suggest?
I don't find a medical degree anywhere in this writer's credentials. I don't think the views of a right wing policy wonk have anything to contribute to a scientific study of this issue. Sure, he has a right to his opinions, but let's not try to pass them off as fact.
Angry at 11:15AM on Jun 28th 2007
13. Guess what the ancient Greeks and Romans also taught us? They gave us the foundation of classical rhetorical argument, among which we find the concept of the Fallacy. Your article is a prime example. Arguing that homosexuality cannot be genetically inherited because a society once practiced homosexuality as a social norm demonstrates a remarkably flawed and irresponsible misapplication of logical reasoning. The presence of homosexuality in ancient Greek and Roman society is no longer prevalent because the societies' CULTURE changed, not the GENETICS. Homosexuals are alive and well in Greece and Italy today, and the number of homosexuals occur in the same ratio and percentages as they occur in every other society. These are the people who are homosexual DESPITE the cultural norms of the societies in which they live, not BECAUSE of the norms, which argues for genetic/biological causality more than an oversimplistic opinion of "choice." Using a cultural norms and practices as a methodology to define and measure genetic influence is like comparing apples to ding-dongs. Such blatant fallacious argumentation not only reveals your bigotry, it reveals a disturbing inability to perform basic logical reasoning tasks. Stanford must be lowering their standards.
Bill at 11:17AM on Jun 28th 2007
14. One's "innate" psycho-physiological make-up and one's behavior are two different things. Behavior is something that varies with the environment, while genetic or innate features do not. Over time, cultures have changed, allowing people to behaviorally express innate sexual orientation to different degrees. While our current culture is such that fewer gays outwardly live a homosexual lifestyle, the Greek culture obviously embraced same-sex practices to the extant that many people who were innately heterosexual were free to explore the other side of the plate.
ellenfan at 11:25AM on Jun 28th 2007
15.
Mr. D'Souza:
What is your fascination with issues regarding homosexuality? I am bothered by your reluctance to move beyond the myth that "homosexuality is a choice."
I can't say whether homosexuality is caused by something biological, hormonal, psychological or neurological... but I am quite certain that it isn't a choice. Think of how silly this argument is... if we could choose our sexual orientations, I'd imagine that the number of homosexuals in society would be abysmally low, if not nonexistent.
What is most important about this poll, is that now it seems that a majority of Americans are finally tolerating something which has existed a lot longer than some might want to admit.
Tony Messinger at 11:27AM on Jun 28th 2007