A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 33)
16. How about talking about what science can prove rather than what history might suggest?
I don't find a medical degree anywhere in this writer's credentials. I don't think the views of a right wing policy wonk have anything to contribute to a scientific study of this issue. Sure, he has a right to his opinions, but let's not try to pass them off as fact.
Angry at 11:15AM on Jun 28th 2007
17. I don't understand poster #1 and his response. D'Souza was not being hateful in any way. If anything, he was downplaying the differences, innate or otherwise, between homo and hetero. To me, there are only two kinds of sexuality - male and female. Now THOSE are worlds apart! I know plenty of "straight" men who don't like women at all, and plenty of gay men who do, which is exactly the point. Who you share your physical person with is less important than where your
head - and your heart - is when you're doing it. "Sexuality", as in biological reproduction, has to be between male and female, yes, but everything else is just love. Or not.
Samsara at 11:14AM on Jun 28th 2007
18. Guess what the ancient Greeks and Romans also taught us? They gave us the foundation of classical rhetorical argument, among which we find the concept of the Fallacy. Your article is a prime example. Arguing that homosexuality cannot be genetically inherited because a society once practiced homosexuality as a social norm demonstrates a remarkably flawed and irresponsible misapplication of logical reasoning. The presence of homosexuality in ancient Greek and Roman society is no longer prevalent because the societies' CULTURE changed, not the GENETICS. Homosexuals are alive and well in Greece and Italy today, and the number of homosexuals occur in the same ratio and percentages as they occur in every other society. These are the people who are homosexual DESPITE the cultural norms of the societies in which they live, not BECAUSE of the norms, which argues for genetic/biological causality more than an oversimplistic opinion of "choice." Using a cultural norms and practices as a methodology to define and measure genetic influence is like comparing apples to ding-dongs. Such blatant fallacious argumentation not only reveals your bigotry, it reveals a disturbing inability to perform basic logical reasoning tasks. Stanford must be lowering their standards.
Bill at 11:17AM on Jun 28th 2007
19. Wow, it still amazes me that we have to have this discussion! Sexuality, like so many other human traits are still a mystery of genetics, physiology, etc. If homosexuality is changeable, than so is heterosexuality. Do you honestly think we choose to be part of a community that is still discriminated against in employment, housing, murdered, abused, and treated as if we are 2nd class citizens. Homosexuality, like heterosexuality has been around since the dawn of man. It is just an innate part of the continuum of the human existence.
gomimia at 11:50AM on Jun 28th 2007
20.
Mr. D'Souza:
What is your fascination with issues regarding homosexuality? I am bothered by your reluctance to move beyond the myth that "homosexuality is a choice."
I can't say whether homosexuality is caused by something biological, hormonal, psychological or neurological... but I am quite certain that it isn't a choice. Think of how silly this argument is... if we could choose our sexual orientations, I'd imagine that the number of homosexuals in society would be abysmally low, if not nonexistent.
What is most important about this poll, is that now it seems that a majority of Americans are finally tolerating something which has existed a lot longer than some might want to admit.
Tony Messinger at 11:27AM on Jun 28th 2007
21. I agree with the author. This issue is at the heart of so many discussions from both sides of the isle. I can sum up it up this way. If you believe there is a God your faith will inspire to read Gods'word which was writtten to help us understand the truth. There the answer is clear. Homosexuallity is a choice. It is not natural or proper. If you feel the Bible is just a book or the reader of this has sexual tentacies beyond what is natural, then compassion, not ridicule should be and is my response.
Bill from Port St. Lucie at 11:33AM on Jun 28th 2007
22. This has got to be the biggest piece of crap I have ever read. First of all....HOW DARE YOU even suggest that it is the GAY COMMUNITY that is out chasing after young boys. Those that are secure with their sexuality are NOT the ones that are the sexual predators as you so describe. It is the false teachings of the church and simple minded individuals such as yourself that are trying to make a name for themselves in the world, that have repressed these individuals into thinking that homosexuality is a sin. It is uneducated people such as yourself (with a title) that cause certain individuals to go out molesting children or living demented lives. We in the Gay community do not condone these actions just as the straight community does not. Did you ever think during your 15 minutes of research that the OLDER men during that era, were just taking advantage of the weak? That they were in all reality RAPING the young for their own pleasure? And why dont you look into your own culture. It is my understanding that homosexuality is also very prominent and that it is surpressed because of social bias. If you did your research, you would have found that your information would be flawed according to the gospels found in Nag Hammadi,Gay/Androgynous people were considered to be closer to God.
Before you open your mouth, do your research and "earn" your notority. Don't use a community for your self gain!!!!
RUKIDDING at 11:37AM on Jun 28th 2007
23. I wonder if the same principles of learned behavior exist in sexuality. If my parents are vegetarians but allow my sister and me to eat meat, but then again, the fridge really doesn't accomodate the meat-eating lifestyle, my environment supports a vegetarian lifestyle. I choose to eat meat but my sister chooses to be a vegetarian and our kids follow in a similar pattern.
If one of my kids becomes a vegetarian, is it through genetics or due to environmental permission? I am more likely to give my kids the choice of the two dietary lifestyles where someone who has no vegetarians in their family won't present the two options. I think pattern is too loose of a definition for genetics. Natural sexuality has to do with male and female, "choice" sexuality exists outside of natural boundaries.
Andrew Viator at 11:37AM on Jun 28th 2007
24. I think a lot of people are missing the fact that making the claim homosexuality isn't genetic doesn't automatically imply that it *is* a choice. Plenty of things are not consciously chosen but are not based on our genes. As an example, I have long had an anxiety disorder... I certainly did not ask to suffer from panic attacks, but it isn't something that I need gene therapy to treat, either.
On the note of gene therapy, I am suprised that so many homosexuals *want* to reduce the universal cause of their orientation to simple genetics. We are complex creatures and our lives are shaped by billions of variables. What would that mean for homosexuals who don't have "the gay gene" - they're faking? Will we be dismissive of enviromental or social factors that may have affected their lives? And what of the people with the "gay gene" - that opens them up to suggestion of gene therapy.
The appropriate reaction is tolerance and support, regardless of the cause. The obsession with cause doesn't help the issue of acceptance. People who disagree with homosexuality will always disagree with it. Finding out its a genetic mutation isn't going to magically make them okay with it.
ozz at 2:48PM on Jun 29th 2007
25. A smoker can quit smoking, an alcoholic can quit drinking, a drug addict can quit drugs, It can be really hard, but it can be done. A homosexual can quit their sinful desire's (not my words, God's words). If a homosexual says that they were born that way, they are really saying, I don't want to change. By the way, No, I don't hate gays, I don't Hate anybody. Love the sinner, Hate the sin.
Nancy
Nancy at 11:42AM on Jun 28th 2007
26. ok nancy,
then leave your husband/boyfriend, if you're that fortunate to have one and come on over to the "pink" team. Quit your heterosexual ways and desires, if you can, or should I say "want" to come and get yer self a nice new Lesbian girlfriend!!!! It shouldn't be too hard to change. And since when is human sexuality equated to the addictions of smoking and drinking???
gomimia at 12:59PM on Jun 28th 2007
27. Ah, another homo-phobe with an Ivy League degree. Thanks Dinesh, for once again proving that taking four years of college can still render you to be a total idiot. And give me a call when you decide to come out of the closet. Because this fascination with homosexuality and the rabid proclomation that "it's a choice" squeals of denial and self-loathing.
Tim at 12:00PM on Jun 28th 2007
28. Some really good comments here. Like Steve, I'm amazed at the amount of time and energy some people put into "researching" the subject of homosexuality. (Unlike Steve, I'm not going to speculate on whether Mr. D'Souza is from the corn belt or not. Seems slightly racist to me.) It is truly baffling to me. I spend almost no time at all pondering what anyone else, especially hetero's, do sexually.
I agree with Bill that this is a very weak argument. If anything, the comparison with ancient cultures should prove that most humans, particularly males, are capable of being pan-sexual in certain social and cultural circumstances. Prison would be an example I can think of.
And I also agree with ellenfan about the differences between a persons "psycho-physiological" make-up and their behavior.
Here's what I say. I would be gay no matter what my social environment. The only difference would be the degree to which I would feel comfortable/safe expressing and experiencing that inclination. That being said, for me, homosexuality is a choice. I have never wanted to have sex with a woman. That doesn't mean I CAN'T. And it doesn't mean I haven't. It means I don't have the desire. A simple analogy would be if I were in an ice cream parlor and I really didn't like vanilla ice cream. This ice cream parlor only serves vanilla ice cream. And I REALLY want ice cream. So, I take the vanilla and dream of the day when chocolate is available. Has anyone ever studied whether the tendency to prefer chocolate over strawberry is genetic?
Finally, here's my favorite quote on this subject. It's a line from John Irving's A Prayer For Owen Meany.
"It's a no win argument - that business of what we're born with and what our environment does to us. And it's a boring argument, because it simplifies the mysteries that attend both our birth and our growth."
Cking at 12:01PM on Jun 28th 2007
29. It doesn't really matter if homosexuality is genetic or not.
I hear alcoholism is genetic, should we have drunken parades with fancy floats driven by drunk drivers?
Should we encourage our youth to explore smoking because a gene has been found that triggers tobacco addiction?
The list could go on and that's what makes this an issue of right and wrong regardless of genetics.
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Wally at 12:49PM on Jun 28th 2007
30. homosexuality is a decision made at the time the thought enters one's mind. You can take the thought and be offended and appalled at it's entering your mind or you can fend it off and determine that you are heterosexual and that's it.
Marriage from the origin or history is for one man and one WOMAN. That is the universal fact, like it or not. If you are interested in getting this sexual preference straight, I can help!
klkelly189 at 4:10PM on Jun 28th 2007