A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 33)
31. Deep in his own heart most all homosexuals know that what they are engaging in is not right. That is why they strive so hard to try to be normal. The anal cavity was not intended for that type of purpose and is very distructive to the individual on the recieving end. When people say they do not have a choice they really sell yourself short. I feel sorry for those that feel condemned by their own choices.
Shannon at 1:24PM on Jul 3rd 2007
32. "By the way, No, I don't hate gays, I don't Hate anybody. Love the sinner, Hate the sin."
Oh please, Nancy. Everytime I hear some smiley-faced back-stabbing God-Nazi say that I just want to club them over the head like a baby seal until they quit lying. By the mere act of saying something like this, you are hating. You're probably writing up that protest sign and jumping into the school board that teaches kids to accept differences...ie Teaching Hate. So spare me the fraudulant self-righteousness and own up; If this were 1963, you'd probably be a segregationist.
Tim at 12:06PM on Jun 28th 2007
33. Nancy, I never quite understood the people such as yourself. You fit right in with the group of Christians who believe that only putting one's faith behind Christ will lead to one going to heaven. I could lead the greatest, most honorable life I could, but God-forbid I'm Jewish, I'm not going anywhere but hell. And then right next to me, someone could be a child-rapist, but after apologizing to Jesus for his sins, he's got a ticket to heaven already punched. Does this make any sense to anyone?
As for homosexuality, it is indeed partly genetic. Just look up the scientific studies on twins. Identical twins, who have exactly the same genetic make-up, have a better chance of both being homosexual as compared to fraternal twins. That right there is scientific evidence.
Of course, Nancy, this means nothing to you, because people like yourself are blinded by your religion, even when it comes to science. Nancy, I bet you also believe the earth is only 6,000 years old, despite the fact that there is a 3.2 million year old human skeleton named Lucy about to begin touring the United States as an exhibit.
Jon at 12:19PM on Jun 28th 2007
34. The writer is confusing behavior with orientation. Maybe he'd like to wander into a local prison and ask the men there if they're gay. The fact that they are having sex with men because there aren't any women available doesn't make them gay. Similar to the Greeks who had sex with young men--that was a cultural behavior, not a reflection of orientation. Orientation can't be changed (and falls along a continuim from straight to gay, not merely one or the other)--behavior can. In fact, many believe that the New Testament references to homosexuality are in reallity only condemning straight men who have sex with men "as with a woman", not those who are gay. At any rate, ancient Greeks having sex with boys really has no relevance to sexual orientation in America today. I hope that was not supposed to be a "scholarly" piece.
Wolf at 12:34PM on Jun 28th 2007
35. # 24. Boy, I sure hit a nerve! No, I don't protest at school, If my child gets punished at school, I'm definately NOT one of the parents who stand up for their child, that's what is WRONG with the world today. If my child did something wrong (even if I think the reason is stupid) he must own up to it.
My children have always know that their are differences and to accept them. They grew up knowing what being gay was,we had very nice gay neighbors, probably the nicest people you could meet,they would do anything for you.
I resent what you say about me. I am not self-rightious, I just was brought up with morals and values, something our entire country has lost. Do you remember them?? I still instill them in my children, I teach them Love not hate. You on the other hand sound a little bit hateful.
This isn't 1963, but my values and morals are the same now as they were in 1963. Maybe you weren't brought up with either of them, that would explain your commpents.
Nancy
Nancy at 12:22PM on Jun 28th 2007
36. The answer to homosexuality, or any sexual behavior is spiritual. There is a true and living God. He created each of us to be sexual beings. His plan is for one man and one woman in a life long relationship. If we do other than this, we deviate from His good and perfect plan. Whenever anyone acts this way, it is called sin.
Homosexuality and deviant heterosexual behavior is sinful and goes against God's plan for mankind. However, God does not hate the sinner, ever!!! He hates and condemns the sin. The answer to any sinful action is forgiveness through God's great grace and mercy.
God provides His grace and mercy through His son, Jesus. We willingly choose deviant behavior. It is hard, if not impossible, for us to choose to not do deviant/sinful behavior. It can only be overcome through and by the forgiving and strengthening power of our loving God, through Jesus. In Jesus we have power to overcome sin and its power.
Charles at 12:27PM on Jun 28th 2007
37. It is a little strange that someone could come away with the impression that there is any expression of hatred in Mr. D'Souza's article. His comments are true according to history books and artwork. In ancient times sex was prevalent among men-men, women-women, men-women, man-animals.
I personally do not believe that we were born to be homosexual, that it a choice we make. What is a shame is the amount of money that is being spent to try to prove that there is a gene to substantiate that homosexuality is inherent.
Saywhat at 12:44PM on Jun 28th 2007
38. Well said Charles.
Nancy
Nancy at 12:30PM on Jun 28th 2007
39. My, my, such harsh reaction. The author of the piece is not equating criminal pedophilia to homosexuality, nor is he saying everyone who is gay chases underaged boys. He's stating historical fact: in ancient Greece and Rome, older men often took younger men as lovers, whether the older man was primarily "hetero" or not. And further, that this cultural practice, though accepted as natural by that society, has no equivalent today-- thus negating the so-called "gay gene" theory.
There hundreds, thousands of factors that go into creating one person's sexuality. Pre-verbal development is probably one of the most important, establishing in basic and pretty unchanging form, what an individual's concepts of pleasure and attitude are to be during their life. That earliest stage of development sets the pattern for the next 70 or 80 years. There is no "choice" involved by the individual; a pre-verbal infant is at the mercy of the Universe and the giants around him/her. This makes me happy, this makes me hurt; I like this face, I don't like that face. This "color" hurts, this "sound" tickles, this blanket scratches, this touch is nice. This line of thought is finally getting some of its overdue attention, and certainly has more logic to it than either a genetic predisposition, or some sort of conscious "choice" about the nature of one's own Self.
Ted Newsom at 12:31PM on Jun 28th 2007
40. It is amazing that, unless you are totally supportative of gay lifestyles and opinions, you are either "hateful" or "should be talking about something more important". A meaningful discussion of opinions is never possible. To a psychologist, this would indicate a "defense mechanism" required because gay supporters are not confident enough in the facts of their position to allow such discussions to take place.
WiseOne at 12:31PM on Jun 28th 2007
41. It is amazing that, unless you are totally supportative of gay lifestyles and opinions, you are either "hateful" or "should be talking about something more important". A meaningful discussion of opinions is never possible. To a psychologist, this would indicate a "defense mechanism" required because gay supporters are not confident enough in the facts of their position to allow such discussions to take place.
WiseOne at 12:32PM on Jun 28th 2007
42. I was born a murderer, promiscous whore-monger, thief, and a liar, amongst other bad habits. I have been tempted to do all those things and will be probably be so inclined all of my days.
At first it was the law that has kept me from murdering people who have offended me. Now, it is because of my faith in Jesus Christ who taught, indeed commanded, that love was the highest priority and most important in our lives.
It is this reason alone that I do not allow my genetic or environmental disposition to sin (disobey God) to manifest itself. To be a slave to our lusts puts us on the same level as the beasts!
Geocentre at 9:43AM on Jun 30th 2007
43. obviously Dinesh is no historian, otherwise he would know that bisexuality was common in many ancient societies. I would be willing to bet that true homosexuality ( people who are strictly homosexual ) was no more common than today, but that bisexuality was. In cultures where women where considered greatly inferior to men in all aspects of life a man of means would have sex with his equal or at least same sex. Some studies have actually shown that these practices where not as widespread among the lower classes.
Bisexuality may well be more culturally driven than biologically, and one only need to look the evidence for this to see how Dinesh's postition is flawed. In a culture such as our's that has a judeo-christian heritage homosexual/bisexual behavior is persecuted, and in some case fatally. So it tends to reason that the small percentage of people that would contiue this behavior in face of this persecution would be the ones with a natural biological drive. In ancient culture where there was not this persecution but acceptance heterosexuals would be more likely to engage in a culturally accepted mode of sexual expression. Especially in cultures that saw half of there population as inferior.
zane at 12:46PM on Jun 28th 2007
44. While you bring up an interesting point, I think you are looking at an incredibly broad and complex situation and trying to boil it down to simple terms. You are framing the discussion in the terms of, "you are either gay or straight, and for the same reasons."
For one, I don't think you can lump together homosexuality and homosexual behavior together as the same thing. While the buggeries of ancient greece are certainly profound, we can not necessarily equate these behaviors to being homosexual.
Instead, I would equate them with societal pressures and possibly pavlovian mechanisms.
Overall, remember that homosexuality and heterosexuality is a false dichotomy. While homosexuality has a biological component, such doesn't preclude a straight person from being conditioned to find homosexual acts erotic, as in the case of ancient greece.
Pete at 12:35PM on Jun 28th 2007
45. Greetings all!
Wow! This is always a hot topic and it never will seemingly come to a conclusion; at least one which will satisfy everyones particular position. It seems to me that a more important issue now is: What do we do to move beyond the discussion? What do we do to rid ourselves of the negative rethoric-on bot sides of the issue? I assume it too easy to just "agree to disagree"; besides to do so would be a cop-out. To explore a theological solution would only serve to complicate th ematter and infuriate many. It truly seems to me that regardless of how a person "becomes" gay- nature or nurture- homosexuality is a part of the universal fabric and to suggest a "cure" is insulting and futile. If there is a God (and this writer believes there is and I am a firm student of the Christian Gospel message)then each of us will have to answer for all that we do and all that we are in this life. We are all a part of a creation-- the same creation-- flaws, flawlwss and all.
Tony at 12:41PM on Jun 28th 2007