A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 33 of 33)
481. OKAY....I treat homosexuals no differently than anyone else I know. I don't agree with their lifestyle and I actually feel sorry for all of the pain and heartache that goes along with it. However, I do not promote any form of hatred or discrimination towards them. NOW.....why can't the gays just fight for the rights WITHOUT promoting LEGAL hatred and LEGAL discrimination towards "straight" families??
AREN'T THEY THE ONES SHOUTING, "Live and Let Live?"
mary irene at 3:55PM on Jul 5th 2007
482. Why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? You answered your own question: "... for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual."
The ancients Greeks and Romes were not homosexual. It wasn't about being gay or straight, it was about getting off. They had none of the modern hangups about sex with other men; it was simply about pleasure for them. They didn't "choose" to be gay or straight because they didn't have to - their society and their culture allowed for sex between men.
You can't apply modern day labels like "heterosexual" and "homosexual" on a society where the distinction between the two didn't exist - and because there was no distinction, you can't possibly compare the men of ancient Greece and Rome to the men of modern Greece and Rome. You're applying a modern-day mindset to an ancient culture and that doesn't work.
As homosexuality became taboo in society, the Greeks and Romans could no longer engage in same-gender sex for recreational purposes, so of course the "homosexual" activity decreased.
I know most modern men would say, "If they weren't gay they wouldn't want to have sex with another man in the first place." But that is a flawed conclusion because ancient Greeks and Romans didn't view sex with women as "normal" and sex with men as "deviant" - it was all just sex to them ... and they had no reason to deny themselves pleasure wherever they could find it.
Pat at 9:23PM on Jul 5th 2007
483. Dinesh you smelly Indian bastard...why are you such a radical conservative? You do know that you wouldn't ever be accepted by these people that you idolize and support. Try visiting the bible belt sometime and see how they treat your kind. You're sickening.
Steve at 2:29PM on Jul 7th 2007
484. As a gay man, I realize the social importance of giving genetics a prominent place in the collective narrative of homosexuality. Citing studies that homosexuality is genetic has been essential to achieving civil rights in the U.S.
My concern with Mr. D'Souza's presented evidence -- like my concern with much of his recent work -- is what cultural recommendations are being implied. If homosexuality is mostly environmental, should we discourage people from being homosexual -- as the insane Dr. James Dobson recommends? If D'Souza is right, is he implicitly advocating a return to an outdated dialogue concerning "therapy" for homosexuality? D'Souza is subtly saying "See! Homosexuality doesn't need to be a major part of human culture after all!"
Jon Stewart (improbably) put it best: "People need to realize that homosexuality is an important part of the human story, and not just some random fetish." Even if homosexuality is indeed largely environmental, would D'Souza agree with that statement?
Eric at 2:53PM on Jul 8th 2007
485. Like many of the ancient Greeks and Romans, I am considered bisexual. I have been attracted to both men and women for as long as I can remember, with the first signs presenting themselves as early as kindergarten. Sensible considering that those are the first years where most children are introduced into a socially active setting with peers their own age. So do I believe that people are born with different sexual preferences?...Yes. Do I believe that EVERYONE who is homosexual/bisexual are born that way?...No, but a lot of them are. I'm living proof. I never chose to be, but that's who I am.
The ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have as many sexual classifications as we do today. Generally speaking, most people today view sex in terms of heterosexuality and homosexuality. Ancient sexuality, especially Greek and Roman, viewed sex in terms of "active" and "passive", no matter what genders were involved. Active, of course, being the penetrator. Passive, being the female or male who took on the penetrated position. This mostly had to do with status, with the active person being higher on the social ladder.
Not everyone chooses to be sexually the way they are. Ancient Greeks and Romans did live a sexually free lifestyle, but not because their genetic make-up was different than ours today. Instead, because of a large cultural shift that was mainly brought forth by the development of Christianity and the miscommunication and/or inaccurate perception of the information it presents.
David at 4:39AM on Jul 11th 2007
486. The Greeks having sexual relations with young boys is called pedophilia, NOT homosexuality. They are not the same thing, nor have they been demonstrated to even be correlated with one another. Most pedophiles are in fact, heterosexual (The Greeks and Romans were married with children). It is an insult to suggest that the abuse of children, and attraction to one's same gender, is somehow even close to the same thing.
If people are wondering why the practice was so common in Greece and Rome, just remember that sexual abuse often breeds more sexual abuse. The majority of sex offenders were abused as children. And that HAS been strongly demonstrated with scientific evidence. The Greek analogy only supports this conclusion.
Megan at 12:10PM on Jul 13th 2007
487. Sexuality has never been a concrete, stable thing throughout ALL of human history or across cultures. Even today, each culture has its own way of defining "normal" sexual practices. However, that doesn't mean we can ignore men who simply are born being attracted to other men, no matter how hard they've tried being attracted to women. And then there are straight men who date and marry women, but who have sex with men on the side. It happens more than we think. So in reality things aren't much different than in Ancient times, for there are still plenty of men who have sex with both genders.
Jane at 12:38PM on Jul 13th 2007
488. Good article. I have never quite understood the logic of the term homosexual. It seems perfectly logical to me that if one experiments and enjoys homosexual acts, that he or she might well choose to exclusively continue with that pattern. The more they continue the more it will seem suitable to them. As a child I had sexual encounters with animals and found it quite enjoyable. Does that make me a beastosexual by my genes. I later chose to stop these acts since they are not only illegal, but highly unacceptable in society. By the way, the dog certainly seems to be cooperative and was not forced against its will. So many of you would say, “What a sicko”, but would anybody say that, “Yes, you probably have a genetic based sexual attraction to dogs?” I think not.
freespirit at 1:17AM on Jul 14th 2007
489. you're such a bigot.but that isn't your fault.we can "cure" you.all you have to do it admit that you've done wrong and that you want to change.it's going to be hard and difficult but this is the price you're going to have to pay if you don't want to be a bigot anymore.if you can do this then i'll become straight.if you can't then that's just too bad for you.it's going to be your lost.and lets not forget that the greeks weren't gay for the most part.those men were straight.the greeks were in love with the male body.straight men did those very bad things.if the greeks suffered then it was because they were "pedafile".do your research.i believe that i'm actually saying this but fox news is better than you.they're conservatives but the give the opposition view.
patrick at 9:36PM on Jul 19th 2007
490. Mr. D'Souza simply wrote about facts known about Ancient Greek and Roman culture. I fail to see any evidence of hate in the article. Those individuals posting accusations of hate and intolerance toward Mr.D'Souza reminds me of the phrase "those that preach tolerance are the least tolerant".
It is within reason to postulate based on Roman history that the traditional concept of family in our society was even more important in Roman society. The Romans did not feel the sexual preference of an individual should ever detract from the "natural" path leading to the Roman concept of family. (Roman concept of "natural" not mine) The family focus of Roman society was outside of ones sexual preference. It really was irrelevant the direction one took sexually, genetic or choice, what was important was the Roman concept of family. So it would seem to me, that our discussions should be open and all opinions should be given consideration. Most important, I don't think the focus should be on ones sexual preference but what we as a society consider to be the most practical and appropriate way to raise our children. Sexual preference, and concepts of romantic love seem a bit archaic. The Romans in practice felt that, their concept of a strong and vibrant society was the continuation and expansion of the Roman concept of family. It seems they were far beyond us in appreciation of human sexuality. However, to the Romans sexuality was first, absolute for family and society, and 2nd fun. No matter the sex of your partner.
Barthshoe at 4:04PM on Jul 21st 2007