A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 33)
46. The problem with an absolutist view is that it lacks any appreciation of the depth of an issue, any nuance. In the case of Dinesh D'Souza, he believes sexuality must be a choice because there is a precedent in which the expression of sexuality has been culturally influenced. A few problems with that:
1)The most important, he overlooks decades of important work in the area since the studies of Alfred Kinsey which suggest that it is not a dichotomy between "gay" and "straight", but that most people fall somewhere in between and, while having preference for one sex, have a latent atraction, to whatever degree, to the other (the expression of which can be culturally influenced, as in ancient Greece or feudal Japan). There is a small percentage of people on the exclusively gay side of the spectrum, just as there was in ancient Greece alongside the mostly heterosexual/slightly bisexual pederasts.
2)By characterizing the scientific studies of sexuality as more controversial and inconclusive than they actually are, D'Souza is showing that his ideology is preventing him from seeing what is there.
3)Even if latent homosexuality could be changed (i.e., "cured"), why should it be? Who is Dinesh D'Souza or anyone to want to change an intimate and personal part of a person's identity (particularly when it does no harm and adds diversity to a society)? What is easier and better, to "cure" homosexuality or to "cure" homophobia?
Joseph Von Hoven at 12:53PM on Jun 28th 2007
47. nancy - yeah right. If your kids came home and told you they'd read "Heather Has Two Mommies," you'd be on the school steps with a protest board and a TV news crew. And if one of your kids comes home and says "Mom I am Gay..." would you be understanding, or act like a proper God-nazi and try to send them to an ex-gay camp? My parents know all about me, to the point where they are tanked in my gay-themed books (I'm an author by trade). I get the distinct feeling that - just after your Christo-hissy - you would not be anywhere near as accepting as my family has been.
And Charles, news for you too, buddy. Jesus loves me and he knows I'm gay.
Tim at 12:39PM on Jun 28th 2007
48. D'Souza hinted at, but neglected to explore the implications of, the fact that neither pederasty nor marriage was universal in ancient Greece and Rome.
Perhaps the norm for men in those ancient societies was pederasty and a wife. The norm in today's world is heterosexual marriage. Some men in ancient Greece and Rome never engaged in pederasty, and some never got married. In today's world, some men and women never get married because they aren't allowed to marry members of the same sex.
I think all that D'Souza's argument really shows is that when a society sets up one norm for everyone, not all people will conform to that mold. It's probable, given human nature, that some refuse the mold simply because they hate imposed uniformity. But it's also probable, given the social nature of humans and our innate desire to be safe and secure, that most of those who do not conform are risking ostracism only because they /cannot/ conform.
It's really kind of sad that D'Souza tries to make an argument out of this historical trivia. He seems to think he's settled an argument that's been very closely examined for decades in this country, using 3,000-year-old "evidence" that /everyone else/ simply overlooked. They didn't overlook it. They just realized it didn't mean anything.
And just so everyone knows I'm not going out of my way to "justify" my own sexual preferences, I'm straight. I came to the above conclusions because they make sense.
SF at 1:04PM on Jun 28th 2007
49. I'm one of those radical Christians referenced by another contributer to this blog...and I believe homosexuality can be and is genetic. I also believe that many if not most or all who are gay cannot choose to not be gay...and I believe the Bible supports this. You see, in Romans it says that God "gave them up...to dishonor their bodies among themselves" (1:24) and "God gave them up to vile passions...men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another..." (1:26-27) and again "God gave them over to a debased mind". (1:28) Man decides not to acknowledge God, God gives them over and they cannot come out of it. Homosexuality is like any other sin though...we are dead in our trespasses...and we cannot choose to make ourselves alive, or free from our sins. God says we are "slaves to sin". Without God, no man can change who he is. Is homosexuality genetic (sins of the fathers are passed down for 4 generations, Deut 5:9), probably. Is that in contradiction with Christianity, no. But according to the Bible, it is still a sin from which man needs to be saved.
ryan at 12:42PM on Jun 28th 2007
50. I'm one of those radical Christians referenced by another contributer to this blog...and I believe homosexuality can be and is genetic. I also believe that many if not most or all who are gay cannot choose to not be gay...and I believe the Bible supports this. You see, in Romans it says that God "gave them up...to dishonor their bodies among themselves" (1:24) and "God gave them up to vile passions...men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another..." (1:26-27) and again "God gave them over to a debased mind". (1:28) Man decides not to acknowledge God, God gives them over and they cannot come out of it. Homosexuality is like any other sin though...we are dead in our trespasses...and we cannot choose to make ourselves alive, or free from our sins. God says we are "slaves to sin". Without God, no man can change who he is. Is homosexuality genetic (sins of the fathers are passed down for 4 generations, Deut 5:9), probably. Is that in contradiction with Christianity, no. But according to the Bible, it is still a sin from which man needs to be saved.
ryan at 1:32PM on Jun 28th 2007
51. Dinesh,
I applaud your bravery in stating the obvious. The Greek analogy is perfect. All of my gay male friends were molested as children by men. Their only reference to sex was that. So they repeated what they learned to be sex. If you have been abused you are likely to be an abuser. Is abuse genetic, no. Socially learned yes. I believe Homosexuality is the same way, a learned behavior. Do I HATE my gay friends? No. Just stating my opinion.
blkoliveoil at 12:43PM on Jun 28th 2007
52. Tim,
I guess to sum it all up, you are just saying, I don't want to change.
Jesus Does Love You! He knows your gay too! But he still hates your sin!
Nancy at 12:45PM on Jun 28th 2007
53. Is Homosexuality Genetic? Absolutely not. It was made perfectly clear in the Bible that it is a sin. Innocent babies are born without sin thus making a genetic mutant homo-gene impossible.
Decent Americans, Republcians and Christians, are sick and tired of having the homosexual agenda and every other immoral Liberal deed, forced upon them. I pray that people in this country will open their eyes before the whole blame country is taken over by infidels, criminals, and deviants.
Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett at 12:48PM on Jun 28th 2007
54. Is Homosexuality Genetic? Absolutely not. It was made perfectly clear in the Bible that it is a sin. Innocent babies are born without sin thus making a genetic mutant homo-gene impossible.
Decent Americans, Republcians and Christians, are sick and tired of having the homosexual agenda and every other immoral Liberal deed, forced upon them. I pray that people in this country will open their eyes before the whole blame country is taken over by infidels, criminals, and deviants.
Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett at 1:09PM on Jun 28th 2007
55. Is Homosexuality Genetic? Absolutely not. It was made perfectly clear in the Bible that it is a sin. Innocent babies are born without sin thus making a genetic mutant homo-gene impossible.
Decent Americans, Republcians and Christians, are sick and tired of having the homosexual agenda and every other immoral Liberal deed, forced upon them. I pray that people in this country will open their eyes before the whole blame country is taken over by infidels, criminals, and deviants.
Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett at 1:09PM on Jun 28th 2007
56. Nancy, Your whole argument of "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner" is really just so much Bullsh*t.
John at 12:47PM on Jun 28th 2007
57. If he weren't taken so seriously, this would be a great piece of humor. Typical ignorant statements made by an outsider standing safe and sound within their majority smugly making comments on subjects they know nothing about.
Once again, the ignorant tries to frighten the general public by lumping pedophilia and homosexuality together in an attempt sway them into adopting his views. Mr. D'Souza has ignored a great number of facts about greek culture which do not support his statements.
Dwight Ingersoll at 1:04PM on Jun 28th 2007
58. I strongly believe that our genes comes with certain hereditary clues since birth, however it is the mind who should rule the flesh, it's all with the mind that we are capable to change our ways whether is hereditary or a product of rough childhood - we have the power to control the flesh if we only put our mind in it our behavior could improve just like the way we manage to develop good table manners or getting used to constantly brushing our teeth - it's hard work i know but it's all worth accomplishing.
Louis at 12:54PM on Jun 28th 2007
59. I can't believe that you are saying that people can undo their sexuality. I do believe that even though humans do not act on it usually they do have desires to be with a same sex partner. I live in Italy and I have lived in Greece and the US and believe me homosexuality is very evident in the meditteranean where people do not feel that they have to hide their sexuality for the most part. They are much more accepted than in the states where there are radical christians who would try to hurt yyou for much less. I don't think people can change who they are so Danesh visit Europe live thier for a while and let us know. There is so much hate in the world today so stop spreading more.
Barbara at 6:48PM on Jun 28th 2007
60. The fallacy in this argument is the necessary premise that the relationship and behavior--whatever it was, which is not in fact well known--carried on by adult heterosexual men with boys in ancient greece and rome was the same thing as adult homosexuality--actual homosexual orientation. The "pederasty" in the ancient world, to the extent that it actually involved sexual behavior, was just a specific form of child abuse, like miliary training or religious indoctrination of children. It had nothing to do with actual adult sexual orientation. The difference between then and now is not in whether people then were homosexual but changed, it's that today we frown on sexual abuse of children.
rich at 1:14PM on Jun 28th 2007