A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.
This view, I think, is simply wrong.
If these practices are genetic, why aren't homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.
I'm sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices "natural." If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren't into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren't whimsically "choosing" to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.
Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 33)
76. What a flip comment to say there aren't many gays in Rome and Greece! Have you been there lately? I'm sure you aren't visiting gay bars and baths, or you would know. You know WHY you don't HEAR about homosexuality anymore in Rome and Greece? Because, like the rest of the world, there is now a negative stigma associated with it, and in MANY cases, laws preventing it! This was not the case in Ancient Rome and Greece. If it was considered "normal" again and there were no laws against it, you would see much more than 10% of the population 'coming out' as gay.
Do a bit more research before you put unsubstatiated "Fox News-like Facts" out there!
Nate at 2:52PM on Jun 28th 2007
77. where have you been? i lived in rome and milan for years and have been many times to greece. Trust me when i tell you, there are MANY many homosexuals in both countries. i actually found there to be more there than here per capita(hello, fashion, art and design? come on!). my friends joke constantly about how it seems there are no straight italians after 2 drinks.
the catholic church considers it such a 'sin' that it's rarely discussed openly, but gay locales are FULL. many are married simply because of religious pressure, and i had one friend who killed himself because he couldn't stand living that dual life. it is opinions such as yours that foster that type of pain. he suffered over his sexuality, trying to be 'straight' because of family and church pressure saying it was 'immoral'.
just because culturally it was acceptable to the ancient greeks and romans doesn't mean it was a choice. another comment here said it perfectly, CAN YOU CHOOSE TO BE HETEROSEXUAL? ask yourself the question first before trying to propose some random hypothesis based on a false premise, with no empirical evidence. and you are at STANFORD?
maybe you're bisexual, and from your experience you can choose to be with one or the other with no true preference, that would at least explain your view somewhat. unfortunately, it's like looking at the horizon and saying the world is flat, or at the stars and thinking we are at the center of the universe. it is antiquated and uninformed. sure, you can continue to believe it and live your life like that is true, but as a scholar, shouldn't you be asking yourself bigger questions and making less assumptions?
sexuality is a complicated beast. it is different for each and every person on the planet, like our face, faith and love. it is FAR more complex than "i choose" or "gene 21... on". it is even different at any given moment in time. have your sexual appetites or interests been exactly the same from day one? have you 'chosen' to be attracted to someone? put some real thought into it and give others some respect.
kevin stea at 1:26PM on Jun 28th 2007
78. Wow Ryan, you hit the nail on the head.
Gomimia, any sexual activity outside of legitimate marriage (as defined by the bible as one man and one woman)is considered immoral according to God's Word, and becomes equated by God as idol worship, which for Christians, is forbidden by God. It is not forbidden among those who don't believe in God or don't care what God wants, but God does want His people to conform to His Word, not the laws and rules of mankind. So it would be wrong for a Christian to accept and support homosexuality because God's Word forbids it. Also, we don't want to teach our children that it is right when God says it is wrong. And God is our judge, not mankind. Why would a Christian want to try to become a homosexual when God forbids it? To make the homosexual feel better about their lifestyle? That would dishonor God and that is not the goal of a Christian lifestyle. Getting the truth of God's Word out is not racist or hateful, but it can feel that way to someone who doesn't like it or believe it. It only becomes racist and hateful when mankind tries to become the judge rather than leaving the judging in God's Hands where it is anyway and will stay.
There are sexaholics anonymous meetings, just like alcoholics anonymous meetings, and a variety of others.
Risa Avari at 1:27PM on Jun 28th 2007
79. Historians agree that one cannot fully understand a culture--particularly one remote in time--from outside that culture. This is a perfect example of what happens when one tries. Creationism is another example. Scholars do agree that homosexuality in ancient Greece was predominantely between adult men and adolescent boys. When a boy reached adulthood, he no longer remained in the mentored, i.e., passive, role, but took a younger lover himself, along with a wife. A romantic partnership between two adult free men, equals, was rare [though certainly not unknown] and generally met with a degree of scorn from other adult males, it being seen as outside what was "normal," i.e., sex with boys. Every generation reconstructs the ancient world as it pleases....but in matters of sexuality, it would seem far wiser to seek answers from among the living.
Tom at 1:29PM on Jun 28th 2007
80. Does it matter if homesexuality is genetic or not? Just focusing on this question implies that someone is: A - Homophobic or B - trying to defend oneselg against homophobes. Who cares whether its a choice or inborn?
Insofar as ancient Greece is concerned, perhaps another explaination is that Ancient Greece represents the amount of people who are actually gay in a community. These people have been encouraged to explore their sexuality without stigma. Modern Greece perhaps is representative of a surpressed sexual culture and hence homesexuality is less prevalent. I cant believe that someone who draws conclusion based on this evidence holds a post such a D'Souza's. I mean, undergrad Sociology 101 will tell you that this is by no means a rigourous study from which one could make any assumptions.
jmacdow at 3:37PM on Jun 28th 2007
81. If one is really interested on the subject of homosexuality and what the great ST.Paul taught read the entire book of Romans.In it tells the reason homosexuality exists till this day! It is SIN just as any other sin,just as serious an abomination before a Holy God,Creator of all mankind and all things.
Jeannette at 1:29PM on Jun 28th 2007
82. Not too many people can tell between right and wrong. I am a parent of two streight males. I am very proud of them. I am not attacking any gender, but babies are not born homosexuals, that is a learned behavior, and if this was the purpose for humanity, there will be no people today. Homosexuals cannot reproduce. It is a bad learned behavior of the mind, and of course the mind controls the body. The same goes for any kind of outside the marriage behavior. Control your mind's appetite, then you can control your whole body. What happens to people who cannot control their eating habits?, or any other bad habit? They go into that course of life. It is all in the brain. Some people like to explore beyond of what is normal, and wihtout limits.
SofiaD at 1:37PM on Jun 28th 2007
83.
As a mother of a gay son, I know with absolute certainty that homosexuality is born. I knew my son was different from the age of two. His manerism and inclinations were femenine. I provaded to him all of the available mainly tools to guide him towards machism. When he was leaving for graduate school he confessed to me that he was gay.
He is a very successful person, he has followed the highest moral standards, and is a great productive citizen. He has also suffered tremendously by the harrassment and discrimination that he has faced by some memebers of society who are ignorant and believe that God believe it is a sin to be an homosexual. We have a farm and have observed homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Nature was created by God, if he thought homosexuality was a sin he would not had created it.
Marina Vasquez at 1:22PM on Jul 2nd 2007
84. Reading the words of Mr. D'Sousa on this, as well as some of his other postings, I have to wonder whatever happened to Stanford. As I recall, it used to have a very high reputation, that seems to have gone by the wayside.
I don't know what subject the gentleman majored in, but it does not appear to have been history, if he now wishes to grasp at ancient history to rationalize his position on current events and issues. Actually, homosexuality was not much of an issue to Ancient Romans and Greeks, at least not to the extent that the author would wish us to believe.
If the gentleman wishes to discuss the issue intelligently, he may wish to pay far more attention to the advancements in science since that period. As it is, Mr. D'Souza would seem to be parroting the line of what is known as the "Christian right." One must therefor question whether Mr. D'Souza is more interested in propagandizing his "beliefs" than engaging in meaningful discussion. If one is to gauge by the contents of his post on this subject are any indication, it would appear that the former is more likely. Wrapping oneself in an "academic" position does not, in and of itself, provide his position any credibility whatever. It does however bring into serious question his integrity as a serious academician.
RLaitres at 1:40PM on Jun 28th 2007
85. When God comes down from heaven and states that "Homosexualiy is OK" THEN I will accept that perversion as such, untill then, You gay people need to work on your problem. and quit trying to shove it down our collective mouths
Tony at 2:07PM on Jun 28th 2007
86. I had a homosexual liason with Dinish and I was better than him !
JeffRey Lee at 1:39PM on Jun 28th 2007
87. God created all life. I don't think "he" God, being the highest power made any mistakes. I believe gays learn from others gays or learn from lifes experiences.
Jacque at 1:54PM on Jun 28th 2007
88. You ignorant, reactionary, hypocritical revisionist. As with your prescient view of a glorious victory in Iraq, you're still living in your own dream world. Look around you; nothing's changed -- except the attitude of bigots like you.
BRSmithLaw at 1:41PM on Jun 28th 2007
89. This may offend some,but homosexuality is just plain SIN. it is an abomination in the sight of God. We were created male or female. Some have chosen to mess with God's plan for the family.
Daisy at 1:45PM on Jun 28th 2007
90. Well Dinesh, thank goodness most Americans have more sense than you do 71% do not agree with you. I would like to know exactly what you accomplish with your article. Do you think you chose being straight. Could you change that if you wanted to and be Gay ?
Carolyn at 1:56PM on Jun 28th 2007