As usual Dinesh D'Souza is wrong. He sees the examples of the ancient Greeks and Romans practicing bisexuality as definitive proof that homosexuality is not innate. His theory is that since current Greeks and Romans don't practice rampant bisexuality (let's assume that's true for the moment being) and the ancient Greeks and Romans did, it must be a cultural thing. Not a genetic one.
What's funny about the Christian right argument is that they admit that they are powerless to stop feelings of homosexuality taking over if society opens up to it. What's going through their minds? Perhaps they're not so different from the ancient Greeks after all.
Of course, as Kinsey showed, the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is not a sharp divide (I used to take credit for this idea until I realized Professor Kinsey had written about this before I was even born). It's not a black or white, gay or straight issue. Everyone is somewhere along the gay-straight spectrum.
And the further society opens up to homosexuality as permissible, the more people feel comfortable coming out as bisexual, homosexual, omnisexual or whateversexual.
Let me give a quick and absurdly simplistic example. Let's assume 100 is completely gay and 0 is completely straight on our gay-straight continuum. A person who ranks a 95 on the gay scale is probably going to act out on those innate desires no matter what societal rules there are, even at the risk of being put to death in closed societies.
A person who is a 5 on that scale might never act on any trace bisexual desires he or she might have no matter what the societal norms are. But the more open a society is, the more you will start to draw in people who score an 85, 75, 65, 55, 45, 35, etc. on our fun little gay-straight line.
In a very closed society some one who is "80% gay" might never come out and in a very open society someone who is even "20% gay" might try it. These are gross simplifications, but you get the point. In fact, this is in some ways exactly what the culture warriors on the right have been warning about.
The Christian right (and the religious and cultural conservatives of a great many societies) have been worried about this for a long time. They are right. As society opens up, we will likely be more "gay." Or in reality, be closer to our true nature, wherever that might lie on the bisexuality continuum.
Where the cultural right is wrong is when they make a value judgment on that. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with that all. In fact, since it allows us to be closer to our "real" nature without societal judgments on our natural sexual preferences, there is something very right about it.
As it stands, our current culture doesn't yet appear to be fully comfortable with a truly and widely bisexual society. So, we inch toward progress or slouch toward
Though it must be noted that we have already achieved a great deal of openness on the female side of the equation. Ask around and see if you can find a woman under 25 who hasn't made out with one of their girlfriends.
My informal study on our show indicates about 80% of girls under 25 have at least tried a sexual experience with another woman (I concede that I am no Alfred Kinsey and my so-called evidence is wildly anecdotal, but ask for yourself and you'll see my numbers are shockingly accurate).
D'Souza uses history as his guide. It's ironic because his argument is ultimately against the tide of history and the inevitability of our genes. We know what the future holds, it is our past. The American people are right, our sexuality is innate. We just have to have the courage to own up to it.
Watch The Young Turks
Reader Comments ( Page 37 of 37)
541. WHAT DO YOU THINK ALL OF THE HOLY MEN CRYING OUT ABOUT!PEOPLE WERE WORSHIPING FALES god's AND NOT THE TRUE GOD ALONG WITH UNNATURAL WORSHIP THEY HAD UNNATURAL SEX ACT'S WITH CHILDREN/ANIMALS/HOMOSEXUALTY ALL WERE COMMON PLACE IN THE WORSHIP OF THESE FALES god's,NINEVEH TURNED FROM ALL THESE THINGS,SODOM/GOMORRAH DID NOT THE MEN WOULD RATHER SLEEP WITH THE VISITER'S
r.lucas at 8:31AM on Jul 6th 2007
542. some of u people who are commenting, u don't realize that people have been gay for a long time, it's nothing new. i have lots of friends who are gay and bi, there's nothing wrong with it, different things make different people happy, leave them alone. ~rachel~
rachel at 1:52PM on Jul 6th 2007
543. Want to know who the real sinners are? Straight people. Conception was a gift from God, to populate the Earth responsibly. That responsibilty went out the window a long time ago. Straight people are having casual sex everyday, disregarding the fact that they were put here on Earth for breeding purposes. Wonder what God thinks about that one....
Talk about disease. The result of heterosexuals having casual sex is sickening and is God's way of saying stop!! Just go into your local clinic and see for yourself. Most patients with STDs are heterosexual. Coincidence? No. But straight people are so insecure with themselves, they can't accept the fact that they are the real sinners. They are the ones who invented all of the sick sexual fetishes out there today. Know your history.
Last time I checked, heterosexuals were the ones who invented S&M, sex dungeons, etc... You bored, sick perverts. May God have mercy on your straight perverted souls.
Oh, but homosexuals are the ones who are the sinners, right? Yeah, God doesn't care much about all of the hatred and death that heterosexuals have been committed to for eons. Go ahead heteros, try to convince yourself of that....you will never fool God.
Oh, and guess what? God loves us too...you conceided sinners.
Sailor101 at 3:39PM on Jul 5th 2007
544. my viewpoint is exactly the same only different from everyone else's! i lovehate everyone! i'm an atheist the way only a person brought up in christian society can be, and am a christian the way only someone brought up in a secularized culture can be. i buy things at walmart and hate consumerism. I'm a vegetarian who eats steak to lose wieght. whatever i can't live without, i call evil. whoever can live without those things, i call dangerous. and and i refuse to ever re-evaluate my preconceived notions about people and right and wrong! i will take advantage of the anonymity of the internet to aggressively attack ideas as if that could change the world and make it more like what i want. my point of view is awesome, why doesn't everyone think like me?
viewpoint monger at 3:36PM on Jul 5th 2007
545. we've all sinned and fallen short,the point is none of this would have noted untill some idiot wanted to get married nad say it's the same as a regular marriage,well it's not the same and if they wanted legal standing with any property all they would have to do is have a legal arrange drawn up, but no this is an attempt at changing wrong into right,another social exp. about to go wrong,don't gay bash and they should'nt have any more right's than the next person just because because their gay so let work/play but no special treatment,we have enough law's on the book's just inforce them.special rights create a special class with equal right's like every one else plus and extra set that puts them above every one else,oh and back to marriage when they can reproduce i'll buy it,and you can treat a person with kindness and love and not accept his/her life style no matter what it is,this all about legal standing people not butthumping and katt licking,their are those who wish to change our culture from it's core out!
r.lucas at 7:58PM on Jul 5th 2007
546. Sailor101, some friendly criticism...
Not all straight people treat sex like it's a joke... your perception I feel is more based on the media, which yes, Hollywood treats it like a joke, and some perverts do... does that just mean it's heterosexuals? No, I've seen homosexual S&M, etc.
If you think heterosexuals spread disease, homosexuals (and yes, heterosexuals practice it too, but not exclusively) who practice anal sex spread it even more. The anal isn't made for sex, the tissue is more delicate, it's made to get rid of waste, and fluids leak through the tissue much more easily than female sex organs.
And if we were put on here for "breeding purposes", the fact of the matter is homosexuals cannot naturally reproduce AT ALL.
Maybe it is god's way of telling us to stop... but the bible does condemn "unnatural practices" of sex, but you won't see me banging it on your head! We all sin, I try my best to get by life succsessfully and honestly, and I hope you all do too. Good day to you all.
Jayjay at 8:41PM on Jul 5th 2007
547. Dear Carolyn -
The greatest of love and peace to you, too! Please know that I totally believe that you are sincere in what you are asking me and have no problem responding. My "style," however, is to answer/respond directly to each question/statement, so I will indicate that here (I did not do that on my last response, which may make it confusing to read - all you need do is refer back to your previous post, because I incorporated it and responded to each issue).
Now, then -
CAROLYN - You speak a lot of scripture when you write.
SHELBY - Actually, I don't agree. I do agree that I use several scriptures and verses, but I don't think ten or so (given how many are actually in the Bible) is "a lot." I could be wrong, however. I use them to show you/others what the Bible REALLY says, as all too often people "quote" the Bible and say its "says" this and that... when it actually doesn't... or vice versa.
CAROLYN - May I ask your personal belief, what you would speak, on our Savior?
SHELBY - Absolutely!! And my love for him AND you obligates me to tell you!
CAROLYN - Do you speak Jesus the Christ as the son of God...
SHELBY - Well, sort of. I "speak" JAHESHUA (meaning "JAH Saves" or "Salvation of JAH")... MISCHAJAH (meaning "chosen/anointed of JAH")... as the Son of God. (Note, the name of the True God is JAH(veh)... which is why we say "Hallelujah"... or Praise (hallel) You (u) JAH (jah).) Indeed, many of the Prophets were named for/after Him (i.e., Elijah, Abijah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Joel/Jah-El, etc.)
I cannot call my Lord "Jesus," however, because that name is a mistransliteration. The name "Jesus" comes from the Greek "Ieosus", which means "Je is Zeus" (the Greek "I" is our "J" - remember Indiana Jones?). The word/name "Zeus" in Greek means "God" ("Deos") AS WELL AS is the name for the highest Greek god, Zeus (Roman, Jupiter).
The true ENGLISH rendering, however, is NOT "Jesus"... but "Joshua" (JAH eSHUA). I USED to call him "Jesus," as you do. And then he told me his name (JAHESHUA in Hebrew and JOSHUA in English), so I call him by his name, not what others have mistransliterated that name to be.
Now, you and some others might think this is just a matter of symantics/trivia, but I would have to disagree. Your name is "Carolyn," not, say, "Katherine." How respectful of me would it be if I continued to call you by a name not your own, particularly after you've personally told me what your name was and how to pronounce it? At some point you might tire of it. Maybe not. But if my salvation DEPENDS upon calling on your name, seems to ME that I would want to get it right.
In that light, you might say, "Well, it doesn't really matter, does it? I mean, HE knows who/what we mean, doesn't he?" And my response would be maybe, more likely yes, but that that's not the point. The POINT, I would say, is that can I TRULY say I LOVE someone... and not even bother to know, let alone call him by, his TRUE name? For me, it goes to the very heart of my relationship with him: I know my children's name, my parents, my husband, and how to correctly pronounced them, etc. Shouldn't I KNOW the same of my Lord? I personally think I should.
CAROLYN - Born of a virgin...
SHELBY - Absolutely. The ONLY one NOT "born in sin," in that NO seed was spilled. Not one drop. Not one sperm.
CAROLYN - Conceived of the Holy Spirit
Ummmm... not quite, I think. Not in the way that you seem to indicate here (i.e., that it was the Holy Spirit that conceived my Lord). The TRUTH is that GOD conceived my Lord, His Son, by MEANS of holy spirit... His life force, His seed. This conception resulted in "the Son of His love"... with a "woman," the spirit realm... Sarah... the "free woman." That is how he came to be BEFORE all creation, "before Abraham," etc.
That life was then transplanted "in vitro" into Mary, a woman of flesh, who became a kind of surrogate (though not completely - my Lord's SPIRIT life was conceived in the spirit realm; however, his FLESH was conceived in Mary's womb), so that his flesh was "of Mary" and thus, "sinful" (i.e., it had sin IN it, as well as was able to take on more sin - ours - which is how he healed people - he took THEIR sin/sickness into HIS flesh - which is why it could become sick ("No doubt, you will say to me, "Physician, heal THYSELF") - and why it could die: perfect flesh does not have sin IN it, and therefore cannot die... which is why Adam and Eve initially had LIFE). But such flesh was merely the "vessel" which contained HIM, the TRUE him... a spirit-being. Thus, it was "of no use." I digress.
CAROLYN - Walked the earth in the flesh...
SHELBY - Yes, absolutely, and see above for what kind of flesh. My Lord was a half-breed: half flesh (from Mary) and half spirit (from God). By means of his FLESH from Mary, he could be sick, and even die. By means of his SPIRIT... from God... he could live.
We... are the same EXCEPT... we don't have enough LIFE in our SPIRITS to overcome the DEATH in our FLESH.
CAROLYN - Crucified...
SHELBY - Yes, totally.
CAROLYN - Dead and buried...
SHELBY - Yes, without doubt.
CAROLYN - Resurrected by God...
SHELBY - YES!! Emphatically, yes!! By means of the LIFE that was IN him... GOD'S LIFE FORCE... HOLY SPIRIT!
CAROLYN - And that receiving Jesus into our heart as our personal savior, having repented of our sins, is the only way to Heaven?
SHELBY - Not quite.
First, repentance was preached to the Jews: they were in a Covenant that they had profaned and they needed to ACKNOWLEDGE AND FEEL REGRET for that, which is what repentance is. People of the NATIONS, however, were not "under the Law," and therefore, not bound to uphold it.
Second, you can't just "receive Jesus into [your] heart." You cannot COME to my Lord... unless the Father draws you. The Father will not DRAW you... until you PREPARE YOUR HEART. You prepare your heart... by CLEANSING it ("clean the INSIDE of the cup"...). You CLEANSE it... by removing HATRED, HYPOCRISY, JUDGING, CONDEMNING... and the like. These are "leaven" that "permeate the ENTIRE lump," so that if you are unclean in your HEART... you are unclean in your SPIRIT... you are unclean in your SOUL... you are unclean in your flesh.
Christ said, "IF you obey my commandments, the FATHER AND I will come... and MAKE OUR ABODE with you." What commandments was he speaking of? Well, many believe he meant the 10 Commandments, as stated in, and including, the Old Testament/Covenant. But that is NOT what he meant. What DID he mean?
1. You MUST love your enemies
2. I give you a NEW commandment, that you MUST love one another
3. You MUST love your neighbor
4. If I washed YOUR feet, you OUGHT to wash the feet of one another
5. Do NOT take the high seat but take the LOWEST seat, for he that is GREATEST... MUST be LEAST among you
6. KEEP doing this in remembrance of me
7. TAKE, EAT
8. TAKE, DRINK
Finally, he said... and I quote:
"UNLESS... YOU... EAT THE FLESH of the Son of Man... AND DRINK HIS BLOOD... YOU... have NO life in yourselves. He that eats MY flesh and drinks MY blood, WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE... AND... I WILL raise him on the last day."
And these are just a few things. We are to "look after widows and orphans." We are to "have pity and compassion." We are to "STOP JUDGING" so that we will by no means BE judged.
You see, Carolyn, the bottom line is that you can BELIEVE all you want to. However, faith... WITHOUT WORKS... is "dead."
My Lord "left us a pattern to follow in HIS footsteps." Not Paul's, not Peter's, not the Pope's, not Reverend, Bishop, Elder or Brother So-and-So's. His, and his alone.
So, I ask you: who did HE judge? Indeed, who is he TO judge? According to him... NO ONE. He repeatedly said that he did NOT come to judge the world... but to SAVE the world.
So, how is our judging done? Two ways:
1. First, we judge... and condemn... ourselves. By how WE judge... and condemn... others. Thus, with the same judgment that WE give out... we WILL be judged.
2. After the 2nd resurrection, by God (NOT Christ!), when the "scrolls are opened." From the founding of the world ("throwing down of the seed"), two records have been kept - one extensive, one limited. The first (and extensive) contains all of our deeds, good AND bad... and we are judged according to them (excluding those "in union" with Christ, who "have no condemnation"). Because ALL have sinned, however, and fallen short... ALL are slated to be judged... and condemned because of the "bad" deeds. That's were the second Book comes in.
The second is the Lamb's Book... the Book of Life. In it are written the names of those who "belong to Christ," and/or did well by Christ's brothers, including the LEAST one, which would be a Jew (and probably a Pharisee involved in his death). Anyone who has their name written in THIS Book, has their sins BLOTTED OUT of the FIRST Book, and thus "have NO sin." As a result, they are SINLESS... and received life (vs. the judgment and condemnation given to those who do NOT have their names in the second book, and thus nothing to blot out their sins!).
You get your name written in the second book by following Christ's commandments (not the OLD ones). HOWEVER, Christ's NEW commandments do not invalidate the OLD ones.
HERE IS THE GIST: We are... all of us... sinners. Condemned to death by a "universal" law that says the wage (price, cost, payment) of sin... is death. HOWEVER... the GIFT God gives is LIFE... by means of Christ. You GET that gift, by doing CHRIST's will... and not your own. And HIS will is that "all things you want men to do to YOU... you MUST do to them." What "things"?
Forgive
Release
Show mercy
Help and assist
Have pity and compassion for
EVEN if such person is your enemy (which is why we have the account of the "Good" Samaritan).
And ALL of this is summed up... in LOVE. If you LOVE your brother, you WON'T murder him. If you LOVE your brother, you WON'T covet his wife. Etc., etc., etc. Yet, because of our SINFULNESS... we are gonna break SOME "law" at SOME time... and so my Lord gave HIS life... to atone for MINE... WHEN I break a "law"... so long as I EXERCISE FAITH in that blood.
And I "exercise" such faith... by doing HIS will... i.e., LOVING God, my brother, my neighbor AND my enemy... and NOT judging and condemning them.
I leave such things to HIM... because they BELONG to him, by authority of God. And even though he HAS such authority... he does not WIELD it! How can I NOT love him? He has saved me... from myself... and my sin.
CAROLUN - Please know that I am truly seek your answer and am not implying anything with the question. Thanks and peace to you.
SHELBY - Again, I totally know this and have answered you truthfully, in the same spirit. The greatest of love and peace to you!
ShelbyJ
ShelbyJ at 12:12PM on Jul 9th 2007
548. Pixiegrl of #522,
You are welcome. Keep up the good questioning. They say smart kids question things. I now add (ok I probably am not the first person to add this), but smart adults question and I say questioning adults get smart. Round and round we go.
Michelle at 6:43PM on Jul 6th 2007
549. TO ALL THE CHRISTIANS!!!
You can't be judgemental and forceful and expect anyone to adhere to your beliefs or even consider your POV. Jesus' message was one of love and compassion not hate. Hard core conservatives and "religious" people are the ones giving faithful people a bad rap. TRUE christians do not hate anyone!!You may say "it is my duty as a christian to inform people of there sins and try to turn them away from an indecent lifestyle" but guess what..THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD THAT IS WITHOUT SIN!! Before you decide to "preach" to gays about their lifestyle make sure you're ready to inform anyone who has ever committed adultery, anyone has been disrespectful to their parents, anyone who has lied cheated or stolen, or even anyone who has had sex before marraige (yes the Bible says that fornication is also a sin)that they too are living in sin. One look around and you can see that that includes the vast majority of so called "christians" who see fit to pass judgement on others. (Don't get me wrong there are plenty of Christians who truly have grasped what it means to follow the way of God which means realizing that one has sinned but repenting of their sins) Homosexuals arent bad people. As an individual you have the right to believe that they are sinners (or not) but dont forget that you are one too! Remember, NOT EVERY ONE BELIEVES IN THE BIBLE/GOD!!! Cramming your beliefs down their throats is not going to get you anywhere. Someone said this before "True Christians hate the sin and not the sinner"
-Jess
Jess at 3:29PM on Jul 17th 2007