As usual Dinesh D'Souza is wrong. He sees the examples of the ancient Greeks and Romans practicing bisexuality as definitive proof that homosexuality is not innate. His theory is that since current Greeks and Romans don't practice rampant bisexuality (let's assume that's true for the moment being) and the ancient Greeks and Romans did, it must be a cultural thing. Not a genetic one.
What's funny about the Christian right argument is that they admit that they are powerless to stop feelings of homosexuality taking over if society opens up to it. What's going through their minds? Perhaps they're not so different from the ancient Greeks after all.
Of course, as Kinsey showed, the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality is not a sharp divide (I used to take credit for this idea until I realized Professor Kinsey had written about this before I was even born). It's not a black or white, gay or straight issue. Everyone is somewhere along the gay-straight spectrum.
And the further society opens up to homosexuality as permissible, the more people feel comfortable coming out as bisexual, homosexual, omnisexual or whateversexual.
Let me give a quick and absurdly simplistic example. Let's assume 100 is completely gay and 0 is completely straight on our gay-straight continuum. A person who ranks a 95 on the gay scale is probably going to act out on those innate desires no matter what societal rules there are, even at the risk of being put to death in closed societies.
A person who is a 5 on that scale might never act on any trace bisexual desires he or she might have no matter what the societal norms are. But the more open a society is, the more you will start to draw in people who score an 85, 75, 65, 55, 45, 35, etc. on our fun little gay-straight line.
In a very closed society some one who is "80% gay" might never come out and in a very open society someone who is even "20% gay" might try it. These are gross simplifications, but you get the point. In fact, this is in some ways exactly what the culture warriors on the right have been warning about.
The Christian right (and the religious and cultural conservatives of a great many societies) have been worried about this for a long time. They are right. As society opens up, we will likely be more "gay." Or in reality, be closer to our true nature, wherever that might lie on the bisexuality continuum.
Where the cultural right is wrong is when they make a value judgment on that. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with that all. In fact, since it allows us to be closer to our "real" nature without societal judgments on our natural sexual preferences, there is something very right about it.
As it stands, our current culture doesn't yet appear to be fully comfortable with a truly and widely bisexual society. So, we inch toward progress or slouch toward
Though it must be noted that we have already achieved a great deal of openness on the female side of the equation. Ask around and see if you can find a woman under 25 who hasn't made out with one of their girlfriends.
My informal study on our show indicates about 80% of girls under 25 have at least tried a sexual experience with another woman (I concede that I am no Alfred Kinsey and my so-called evidence is wildly anecdotal, but ask for yourself and you'll see my numbers are shockingly accurate).
D'Souza uses history as his guide. It's ironic because his argument is ultimately against the tide of history and the inevitability of our genes. We know what the future holds, it is our past. The American people are right, our sexuality is innate. We just have to have the courage to own up to it.
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Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 37)
61. The sexuality of humans will be found to be caused by a spectrum of genes just like intelligence and therefor we are not likely to find a "gay" gene, but rather those closely associated with homosexuality. Whatever spectrum of sexuality that results is only ethical if it takes place between consenting partners. That rules out kids and animals...but we can all have a 21st century discussion about whether that means 16 year olds, or 15 year olds...have at it.
The twin studies have been mentioned, and there is also a birth order affect. Later born sons are more likely to be gay. It is clearly genetic and possibly developemental, much like the Rh factor coming into play in later pregnancies.
The fellow who said that it cannot be genetic because natural selection would get rid of it, does not understand how natural selection works on combinations of genes. It is the whole combination that is selected if certain arrangements make the species as a whole more reproductively stable. Example: What if the genes that cause homosexuality are the same genes that make women more fertile or sexually receptive? Wild guess, but you get the point as to why there has been a historical percentage of all populations and cultures who are predominantly gay. Whatever combination of genes causes it, it was decided eons ago by evolution that it is beneficial as a whole.
As for religious myths, we will know what every one of our genes does before I will understand how people can believe that crock.
Ron at 8:45PM on Jun 28th 2007
62. Does anyone know when the word homosexuality came into existance? Not until the 1900's. Wonder when it began to print in the Bible
jan at 9:02PM on Jun 28th 2007
63. Ron 57. I don't want to blow smoke up your ass as that would be gay, however you state your point well. After years of study of the 'myths' I could not belive. I was six. Unfortunately I was had to attend the brainwashing sessions until I was 18. I really feel bad for those that have something in their head that they cannot cope with but for the hope that God will bless them by not giving in to impure thoughts. Now if I can only get my chick to do some lez stuff on camera...
mat at 9:03PM on Jun 28th 2007
64. CJ is a moron for only someone with low intellegence could come up with such ridiculous statements. And what makes you think gay people don't have Jesus? You are the one who needs Jesus but apparently you're not even smart enough to realize it! America may well be coming to it's end but it is not because I sleep with men - it's because Christians and Republicans are dangerous idiots.
keller at 9:05PM on Jun 28th 2007
65. Yeah they replaced sodomite with homosexual... crazy. Sodomy can be interpreted as sex with the same sex, anal sex with a woman, or beastiality. Perhaps homosexual is just a synonym.
mat at 9:05PM on Jun 28th 2007
66. Jan of #58,
The word homosexuality is not in the Bible. Only references to the act. Those have always been there.
Michelle at 9:09PM on Jun 28th 2007
67. Thank you kindly Keller
Michelle at 9:11PM on Jun 28th 2007
68. In regards to all those who are insisting that God/Jesus wants us all to be straight...think about when the Bible was written. At that time do you think it was in the best interest of a society of minorities (yes the christians were a minority) to say "Oh well you can all love who you want"???. They wanted to reproduce and SURVIVE. If there is even a God im sure he would tell us to love who you will because honestly, there are more than enough people in the world and we have too any starving orphans as it is...im pretty sure the world will not depopulate if some people are homosexual. Just because a couple is homosexual does not mean they will not choose to have children (or adopt a child). All your arguments are a load of crap.
Maria at 9:20PM on Jun 28th 2007
69. Pardon me, but to the commentor stating that pedophilia and beastiality are "not even close" to the same thing as homosexuality, might I advise you... Not even close? Try Peanut butter, airplane and ice skates. Those things qualify as not even close. Pedophilia and beastiality are two things far beyond the reaches of my happily homosexual mind, and I am a firm beleiver that pedophiles should be immediately disposed of and those who practice beastiality need serious mental treatment. Homosexuals, however??? If we were all gay, THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH MORE WONDERFUL PLACE.
Christiane at 9:24PM on Jun 28th 2007
70. You know, I'm so sick of this shit. Hey Blues and Reds guess what... you're both wrong. What it comes down to in the end is that no one, straight or gay is in a position to tell anyone else that they are living their life wrong.
That privledge is relegated to God alone. And you know what, whether you believe in God or not, you still are a fallable human being, so shut your trap and accept that no one is ever going to have exactly the same opinion of things as you.
I'd call you all stupid, but that's an insult to the mentally deficient. Honestly don't bother replying to me because I'm not even going to read anything sent to me or written on this board, because I honestly don't care what any of you, whether you consider yourself on the left or the right, have to say. You're all completely lost as far as I'm concerned.
Grow up, theres a hell of a lot more to worry about in life than sex.
J-Rod at 9:24PM on Jun 28th 2007
71. WELL if Jana N Lori are goin' to HELL,im sure u gay people are MOST DEFINANTLY on the list as well!! lol..=p
lacancerchica at 9:28PM on Jun 28th 2007
72. OMG ALREADY!!!!! I DON'T CARE WHO YOUR BANGING AS LONG AS IT'S NOT IN MY BED, HOUSE OR EARSHOT!!!!! THANKYOU!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!! RELAX.........EVERYONE IS SO READY TO BOX ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!! LET'S JUST LEAVE JUDGING TO GOD..............
P.S. USE CONDOMS PLEASE
Blondie at 9:36PM on Jun 28th 2007
73. There is so much I would like to say to all the ignorance posted on here. However, I will keep it short and sweet. There is a museum in Europe dedicated to only researching homosexual activity with mammals. Their studies consist of 500 species that have active and natural homosexual relationships and behaviors. We are NATURAL! We are part of nature. In addition, to #6 all I can do is laugh. We have enough humans on this earth, over population is already becoming an issue. Don’t worry the uneducated will keep popping kids out at an unreasonable rate. Homosexuality could very well be nature’s way of natural population control. It is handled this way with some species in the animal kingdom. We are not perverts we love just as strong and pure as heterosexuals and for someone to compare us to pedophilia and bestiality is absurd. Ignorance is not bliss people. Please do not talk or comment on something you know nothing about. How many gay people do you know personally? How many gay people have you had a real conversation with? By the way, you can not judge a whole sub culture on just one encounter. You may meet a gay person who happens to be an idiot, just as I have met many stupid straight people. All I am saying is open your mind just an inch and try and to get to know the other side. We are your teachers, your family (even though you may not know about them), your doctors, your fellow co-workers, students, hair stylist, chiropractors...the list goes on forever. Come On!!!! We are actually so far behind other countries with this issue. Europe and Canada are so much more developed with gay issues than we are that they are not even issues. Let us not be ashamed of our history in the future its time to move forward and accept we are here to stay! We are equals and deserve to be treated as so. OK, OK, that was not as simple and short as I was hoping LOL : )
Larissa at 9:43PM on Jun 28th 2007
74. Maria, Maria,
Our arguments are not all "a load of crap".
Here are some legitamite ones:
A. Men and women getting together creates children
(put that way for any children present) Doesnt
work that way with two men, two women. You
know that
B. It just looks better.
C. It is more emotionally fulfilling for a man and woman.
D. Men have different gifts than women. They balance e/o out.
E. When a kid has two moms, how do you identify them, mom one and mom two?
There are more, but here are a few.
Michelle at 9:36PM on Jun 28th 2007
75. Actually as someone WITH two moms, i can tell you it is not hard to identify them. As is customary, you turn (stay with me here) face the person you are addressing, and then address them by name (or in this case "mom"). Usually, this works, im not sure about you though.
Another thought, if a man and a woman is more fulfilling then how come the divorce rate is so high? How come my 'moms' have been together longer than most of my friends' parents?
I'll go with you on the men have gifts thing, men are hott.
And the looks better..thats up to the viewer. Honestly if you dont like it, look away!
Maria at 9:41PM on Jun 28th 2007