This past weekend I debated Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul on the war in Iraq. The event was FreedomFest, the annual libertarian gathering in Las Vegas, with C-Span and about a thousand people in attendance. It was billed as a Libertarian v. Conservative debate: Larry Abraham and Dinesh D'Souza for the conservative side, and Doug Casey and Ron Paul for the libertarian side.
So here is question for Ron Paul: shouldn't the United States do what it can to promote liberty worldwide? I posed this question and Paul answered that America should be an example of liberty and not try to impose freedom by force. Alas, where freedom has come to countries it has usually come by force. How did we get freedom in this country? We had a revolution. How did African Americans win freedom? It took the invasion of a Northern army to secure for the slaves a freedom they were not in a position to secure for themselves. And let's remember that America imposed freedom at the point of a bayonet on Japan and Germany after World War II, and the results have been excellent.
It seems that today's libertarians are divided into two camps: the principled and the unprincpled. The former believe in liberty as a universal aspiration. The latter believe in freedom for us but not for anyone else. Ron Paul isn't going to become president, but as America's leading libertarian he would do the group a service by upholding freedom as a universal principle, as the founders did.
Reader Comments ( Page 7 of 8)
91. Are you a real journalist?
Ken Langston at 6:44AM on Jul 12th 2007
92. Ron Paul has the correct libertarian principle here. USA has no obligation to invade other countries, depose one government and impose another that is "more free". Your example of the American Revolution is flawed. A parallel of your example would have been if France invaded New York to kill off all British soldiers in order to allow us to establish a democracy here. Not exactly the same.
Mike Hignite at 8:51AM on Jul 12th 2007
93. Mr. D'Souza would do well to read some history. The Northern Army DID NOT invade the South to free the slaves. The American Civil War was one of the very few military actions to end slavery. Most countries abolished it peacefully without bloodshed. At the start of the Civil War, Massachusetts was the only state that allowed blacks to vote--look it up. That doesn't sound like the north was for freeing the slaves so much as they wanted to dominate the south and control the expansion west.
Also, we were attacked by Japan because we forced them to do it. We needed it to be done. FDR would not commit our troops to the war unless we were attacked. How convenient it is to not mention the facts that America cut of the supply to Japan of: oil, iron, and basically any other natural resource required to build a nation. America also froze Japanese assets here in the U.S. Anyone who has studied international relations will tell you that is one of the many ways to declare war without saying so. If you don't believe me, check FDR's personal papers regarding the subject. Oh, that's right, they have yet to be released to the public.
Read your history Mr. D'Souza!
matt at 1:03PM on Jul 12th 2007
94. Over 600,000 people have died in Iraq as a result of our government's quest to give them Democracy! This is according to most experts a conservative number. Add to that the 3,600 US citizens who have died encouraging Iraqis to embrace their new Freedom.
By any sane person's definition of the phrase "Bringing Democracy" - the message is one that I doubt any other country will hope we bring to them! Most of the world feels it is far better to live under a Dictator than to have any other country come in and kill your family to impose their idea of freedom on the survivors.
Wake up man - Use common sense - The next debate you join, do your homework!
Stephen Wood at 9:12PM on Jul 12th 2007
95. Dinesh, I had the misfortune of listening to you speak at Freedom fest over the weekend. All I can say is you're nothing but a Neocon. Paul cleaned your clock. Question to you - Have you ever served in the military?
Dave at 11:10PM on Jul 12th 2007
96. Dimshit - Have you ever served in the Military?
mdabfab23 at 11:12PM on Jul 12th 2007
97. Is there a way to read or see the debate between conservatives and libertarians?
Rob Bjerk at 5:32AM on Jul 13th 2007
98. There is nothing libertarian about promoting liberty in other countries if it's funded by U.S. taxpayers. That would be welfare.
Dale Black at 11:02PM on Jul 16th 2007
99. I am so thankful that you posted this report. It goes to show how disillusioned people can be; even the educated ones.
First, our forefathers fought for liberty. They did not wait from someone else to do it for them.
Second, the civil war was created because the south wanted to break out of the Union and create their own sovereignty. President Lincoln refused to let the southern states leave the Union. It had nothing to do with freedom.
Third, Japan and Germany started a war with us. We did not start a war to free them; we declared war to protect our freedoms which were being threatened.
However, since you are so smart, I will ask you a question. Which war did we start that brought down the Berlin wall? What??? There was no freedom loving war that did that? It was done through peaceful negotiations? PREPOSTEROUS!!!! According to you, the only way to spread freedom is through war.
I agree with Dr. Ron Paul that you cannot force freedom onto a nation of peoples. They must also want the freedom and do their part and they should earn their freedom the way our forefathers did, by fighting tyranny and oppression. We should set the example instead of being the big bully saying “You’re going to do it our way or else”.
Please continue to post your misguided ideas. It can only serve to boost Dr. Paul’s campaign.
Russell at 5:47AM on Jul 15th 2007
100. One good thing about Dinesh D'Souza is that he elicits intelligent, thoughtful response from so many people. This is in contrast to his lack of intelligent, thoughtful commentary in his blog. WHY DO THEY PAY HIM? WHY ON EARTH?
Alex Hamilton at 7:26PM on Jul 16th 2007
101. Russell:
You ask, "What war did we start to bring down the Berlin Wall?" Answer: The cold war. It was a war of information and espionage. The fatalities...too numerous to mention though probably with less 'collateral damage' than conventional warfare...the exact numbers remain classified. In the first half, it was actually very civilized with each side knowing..and pretending not to know..who at least most of the players were...and families of operatives being 'off-limits'. Then, it changed. Instead of cultivating an elite corps of professionals to carry out assignments to further a political will, each side became dogmatic...it became a religion (moreso for the U.S.S.R. than us) and fanaticism set in. Then, it got nasty. We were better at this kind of war than they were. When they Soviets saw that the 'impenetrable' border that they were spending millions to maintain was being walked through as easily as if it were not there (okay a slight exaggeration) it just didn't make sense to do so anymore.
Keith J. Mohrhoff at 8:00AM on Jul 18th 2007
102. I spent 5 seconds on the libertarian website and now know that your belief of the libertarian agenda has nothing to do with the facts and everything to do with your own agenda. Take the wool off that's been pulled over your eyes by a government that needs to sell you a bill a goods that they can right every wrong. They can't and don't. Forcing your views on someone at gun point doesn't work just as forcing your views on your colleagues in the same manner doesn't work. You show them how to be righteous by being righteous - something we have a lot to work on.
Tom Smith at 6:44PM on Jul 24th 2007
103. Congressman Ron Paul and the Permanent Revolution
Congressman Ron Paul is a member of the Republican Party. He has been repeatedly "elected" to office by the Republican and "independent" voters of his District in Texas. Presently Ron Paul is "running" for the presidency. He is backed by many organizations that consider themselves the Voice of American Patriotism., the Saving the Republic Community.
How many of these "Republican" voters, party members, and his many "Patriotic-Pals and Patrons" know the Republican Party is a member party of the International Democrat Union (www.IDU.org). When one reads the propaganda at the IDU web site the individual will come to understand the IDU determines all policies and campaign strategies for all the member parties to include the Republican Party USA.
The Congressman, to say the least, does not fit the stereotype of any of the several different types of IDU-Republican presidential candidates. This reality becomes quite clear when an individual comes to understand Ron Paul is the only "presidential candidate" from either the Third Way-Democrat or IDU-Republican "front-runners" that openly recognizes the existence and reality of the Permanent Revolution.
Congressman Ron Paul possesses another quite noteworthy distinction. His candidacy has filled the political void/vacuum created by Patrick Buchanan's retirement from the "Third Party Politics" of the Saving the Republic Community located on the Right Extreme of the False Political Spectrum . Ron Paul now has the privilege to lead millions of well meaning Americans astray with false hopes and catchy words of sophistry...through the use of the many Fabian-controlled Perestroika Type-II Conspiracy Theory groups.
Ron Paul's presidential bid will be as "successful" as Buchanan's. This "success" will be traced to one very important campaign tactic...it is the "I really don't want to win" syndrome. Despite "all truth" being on my side...I will not use any of these truths to provide and promote a candidacy resulting in the occupation of the White House.
Please understand, American Counter-Revolution is not invoking the political concept "Ron Paul can't win" or any other Third Party candidate for that matter. It is the position of the American Counter-Revolution Dr. Ron Paul has no intentions of winning.
To further clarify the position of the American Counter-Revolution concerning the Congressman's candidacy...it is the belief of American Counter-Revolution the first presidential candidate that makes exposing the reality of the Permanent Revolution his or her central campaign plank...that brave and Patriotic individual can win the presidential election in 2008 or 2012.
Ron Paul could be president. He truly understands the Permanent Revolution is real. Yet in all the public-premature Republican primary debates He has participated in...He not once mentioned the Permanent Revolution.
If the Congressman is not willing to play his most important trump card exposing all of his opponents as Agents of the Permanent Revolution in front of a "national audience"...can we expect him to be able to do what is necessary to win? If he hasn't placed the issue of the Permanent Revolution on the table of public-premature-presidential debate can we trust him to override IDU Republican Party control...should by some chance he wins in the primaries?
Will the Ron Paul campaign be able to separate Democrat and Republican Followers from the Fabian controlled Elite of the One Party Perestroika Vote Fraud Mechanism?
By exposing the Permanent Revolution Dr. Ron Paul could separate the Followers from the Fabian Elite simply by informing the American Republic The Fabian controlled Permanent Revolution operates through two international Socialist organizations...The Third Way and the International Democrat Union.
Dr. Ron Paul could point out the simple facts that the Democrat Party is controlled by the Third Way (through the Democratic Leadership Council) and the Republican Party is a member party of the International Democrat Union...both organizations are Fabian creations.
Will Ron Paul be able to Politically Fuse all of the many Followers of the alternative Perestroika-political groupings (controlling the Political Refugee Class) that exist outside of the One Party Vote Fraud Mechanism? This may prove to be a most difficult task when one considers the vast majority of alternative political groupings are all (one way shape or form) Perestroikas set-up and operated by the various Fabian Elites. In this situation the Congressman must again be able to separate the Followers from the Fabian controlled Elites...this will take real political courage...the courage necessary to be President.
Now for another important question concerning Ron Paul's candidacy. If the Congressman loses the Republican primary in 2008 will he seek the presidency as an independent?
If Ron Paul can answer "yes" to all of the above questions...Ron Paul can win. If He answers "no" to any of the above questions...Ron Paul does not intend to win...and we can really call him Dr. NO.
One last important question to ask about the Ron Paul candidacy. Are the followers of Ron Paul ready to acknowledge and then expose the Permanent Revolution? After all, Ron Paul is an Elite leader of the Saving the Republic Community...and a member of the IDU-Republican Party.
This Republic needs an independent and strong willed person to repeat to all of this Nation and the entire World:
THE PATH OF PERMANENT REVOLUTION...
...IS NOT THE PATH OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION!
Ron Paul already understands this...or so he says. Only time will tell.
-Toto
Home http://www.americancounter-revolution.com/
Tin Man at 11:24AM on Aug 14th 2007
104. Part II
There is one major stumbling-block to a successful "Ron Paul for
President" campaign. This obstacle is most obvious.
There is no unity whatsoever in the Saving The Republic Community,
Right
Extreme from the False Political Spectrum. The Saving the Republic
Community is severely divided by literally thousands of Type-II
Conspiracy
theories. Please view the "Political Model" provided by the American
Counter-Revolution. The Saving the Republic Community occupies the
lower,
bottom Right of the diagram.
Ron Paul, despite being the Libertarian Party 1988 presidential
candidate,
is the "leading" presidential candidate for the Saving the Republic
Community. But...there exists an already established and "organized"
Saving the Republic Community party...the Constitution Party.
YES! Ron Paul won the televised
IDU-Republican-Presidential-Candidates-"Debates." So what!
Ron Paul, member of the IDU-Republican Party, needs to be able to
harvest
every vote that exists in the hands of the Saving the Republic
Community...in order "to win." The Constitution Party stands in his
way.
Why?
The Constitution Party is the only Right Wing (on the False Political
Spectrum) "Third-Party"alternative political party to survive the
2004
"elections." The Constitution Party is a party in complete disarray
over
one issue that has "split" the party...abortion...thus reducing the
"electoral-influence" of the party. With the issue of abortion
aside....there is not much difference in Ron Paul's campaign and the
Constitution Party's political position.
Simply stated: the existence of the Constitution Party and the Ron
Paul
presidential campaigns automatically "splits the vote" of the
Political
Refugees (the Followers of the Elite of the Saving the Republic
Community). Both the Ron Paul and the Constitution Party political
positions are based on some similar form of a Type-II Conspiracy
Theory. A
Constitution Party candidate will siphon off the much needed Ron Paul
votes in 2008...should the Constitution Party come up with a "viable
candidate"...such as Pastor Chuck Baldwin.
This situation will create a conundrum for the Right Wing of the
False
Political Spectrum. Who is the true voice of the Saving the Republic
Community? Presently the Constitution Party, despite the growing wave
of
support for Ron Paul in the Saving the Republic Community, remains
"neutral" in its support of the last "Great White-Hope."
This reality is easily visualized in a two part essay published by
www.newswithviews.com on July 7, 2007 written by Mary Starrett,
Communications Director for the Constitution Party, "Dr. No, The
Three
Musketeers and the Seven Dwarfs."
Mary Starrett's opening sentence (paragraph) makes a most valid
observation,
"There's reluctance among conservatives to see the ideological flaws
of
the current crop of president-wannabes but unless we're willing to
line up
each one of the 11 Republican contenders and strip off his 3 piece
posturing to look deep into his political past, we'll simply be
fooling
ourselves (again) when it comes to supporting a candidate for
president."
American Counter-Revolution totally agrees, unless we look deep into
a
candidate's political past "We'll simply be fooling ourselves
(again)".
And when one is "looking" into the political past of a
candidate...this
retrospection should also include the reality and existence of the
Permanent Revolution.
Mary Starrett then reinforces her opening statement with the
following
accurate observation about the Saving the Republic Community,
"Much like a woman who wants to get married so badly she ignores
those
"deal-making flaws...We just don't want to face the truth..."
(Emphasis
added)
Again, American Counter-Revolution agrees...Patriots don't want to
face
the truth...the Saving the Republic Community refuse to recognize the
reality of the Permanent Revolution. This observation becomes quite
clear
in Part 2, page 5 of "Dr. No..."(as printed from
www.newswithviews.com),
"Ron Paul: The Congressman from Texas is quite simply, 'the best
they've
got'."
This simple "declarative-sentence" speaks many volumes. Please read
this
sentence several times. What can we learn from this simple sentence?
Mary Starrett views Ron Paul as a Republican...not an IDU-Republican
controlled by the Fabian Society. This "political reality is OK." Ron
Paul
(as well as his 'Patriotic-Pals') does not openly recognize he is a
Fabian-IDU-Republican.
If Mary Starrett was aware of the Permanent Revolution, She
should/would
have made "an issue" of Ron Paul's affiliation with the Fabian's
controlled IDU-Republican Party...thus giving "Her Party" a
propaganda
edge as a "Third Party" competing for Saving the Republic Community
votes...but she did not!
Mary Starrett is not unaware of the dilemma presented by the Ron Paul
IDU-Republican presidential bid,
"The dilemma we have is that we cannot sit around and wait to see
what the
Republicans are going to do but build an ark that true
Constitutionalists
can find refuge on when it dawns on them that the Republicans and
Democrat
parties will let them drown."
American Counter-Revolution agrees. Please admit "the waters around
you
have grown." But please understand..the Constitution Party is
definitely
not the "ark that true Constitutionalists" will be seeking with the
failure of the Ron Paul IDU-Republican Party presidential bid. The
Constitution Party does not recognize the reality of the Permanent
Revolution.
The Constitution Party does not recognize the reality of the
existence of
a unified American/British Capitalism (directed by Fabian ideology)
seeking to establish a unified Capitalism. Remember...International
Socialism is completely impossible without an International
Capitalism as
the sole means of production for Planet Earth.
The final impact of the Constitution Party will be important...but
barely
noticed. The Constitution Party will only "split the vote" of the
Saving
the Republic voter. Thus...resulting in another Fabian victory "at
the
polls."
-Toto
Home http://www.americancounter-revolution.com/
Tin Man at 6:19AM on Aug 9th 2007
105. Hasn't this country grown tired of all these neocon pundits who promote wars in which they themselves are not willing to fight? Dr. Paul served in the military -- what the hell did D'Souza ever do other than root for other people to put their lives on the line? This guy is simply too much of a chickenhawk poseur for anyone with half a brain to take seriously. If D'Souza wants the U.S. to impose mass slaughter on the Iranians so much, he ought to pick up a weapon and join the unholy cause of foreign aggression. Otherwise, he's just another mouthpiece gutlessly serving the powers that be.
Weston J. Kathman
Weston J. Kathman at 5:52PM on Aug 28th 2007