What happens when an all-male organization like the Catholic clergy allows homosexuality to become institutionally entrenched? The answer is organizational and moral chaos. The priests start hitting on the altar boys. So-called "lavender mafias" emerge in certain parishes and dioceses. There are occasional, and outrageous, instances of pedophilia. Young homosexuals find the institution of the clergy a marvelous "cover," not to mention an excellent place to meet other homosexuals. And the higher-ups, at a loss for what to do, act to hush up what the Bible would have called these dens of iniquity.
If you doubt that the Catholic Church has a problem with all this, ask Cardinal Roger Mahony, who just announced that the Los Angeles diocese will pay $660 million to more than 500 victims of sex abuse. In the vast majority of cases we aren't dealing with pedophilia--an extremely rare disorder that is no more prevalent in the Catholic church than it is elsewhere in society--but rather with homosexual priests taking advantage of their authority to seduce teenage parishoners and altar boys.
Now consider what would happen to that other predominantly-male organization, the U.S. military, if it got rid of "don't ask, don't tell" and allowed open homosexual relations between soldiers. We can easily imagine all the problems, but is there an upside? The Spartans are one of the few groups in history to allow homosexuals in the military. They tried to use it to fighting advantage. The idea was that men would be more willing to die for the sake of partners to whom they had become sexually attached. So the Spartans fought as couples, with each young soldier romantically linked to an older veteran. Typically the older veteran played the "male" or dominant role and the youthful recruit the "female" or passive role in the relationship.
Putting on my Clausewitz hat, I've been thinking about how this strategy could be employed by the American military. Should the United States army set up gay platoons, where camaraderie is based not on team loyalty and male friendship but rather on sexual partnering among veteran soldiers and new recruits? I mentioned this to a friend in the armed forces and he could only forsee one benefit. He noted that if the American military gets soundly whipped in a future engagement, we could always laugh off the defeat and say, 'Well, yeah, but you only beat a bunch of gays."
Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 6)
46. And, yes, the Church does have a problem with the Seminary being infested with homosexuals. The cure is the married priesthood, I think. At least then, they wouldn't be violating their voews.
Wally Lind at 12:04AM on Jul 17th 2007
47. Is our society in such denial and so corrupt and immoral and the Catholic groups so powerful and rich that they can buy their homosexuals and/or their pedohhiles and whatever else out of jails, courts and prisons? Evidence is mounting that this
is true. Has it been true for about 2000 years and continuing?
DDwain at 12:55AM on Jul 17th 2007
48. Wally - Part of what drives the preference for celibate clery is the notion that if a priest is married, his attention and efforts are devided between his wife and his family, and God.
I think it is better if priests remain single and celibate. That way they can devote all of their effort and attention to God's work.
That is just my opinon. I do understand Greek Cathlics allow priests to marry and I understand the pope could change this rule. It is not Church doctrine or a matter of faith. It is a man-made rule, nothing more, nothing less.
For the foreseeable future however, Roman Catholic priests will remain single and will take a vow of celibacy. All candidates for the Roman priesthood understand this. It is not a secret.
Whether the practice of priests taking a vow of celibacy played a role in this scandal is a good subject for debate; certainly Rome is studying the matter.
I do think it a good idea that Roman Catholic seminaries are now being more careful in screening candidates for the priesthood.
It seems that during the late 60's and 70's, when coincidentally most of the priests who are involved in the child molestation scandal were in seminary, there was in fact a general push (by liberals) to allow or at least experiment with, the idea of letting admitted homosexuals become preists. Nowadays of course, it is these same liberals who are calling for us to do away with the Church; some of them would like nothing less than to use this scandal and how it was handled (admittedly it was handled very poorly) to justify throwing the entire Roman Church on the trash heap of history. Thankfully that will not happen.
In the end, the social experiment of allowing admitted gay men to become Roman clergy has been a collossal failure, and the Roman Catholic Church has learned important lessons, not only about the suitablity of gay clergy, but also about the dangers of trying to hide problems like this. Interestingly enough, the Episcopalians are just beginning to perform the same experiment and in time, will likely learn for themselves.
It is too bad they (the Episcopalians) do not just look at the Roman Catholic experience and learn from it.
Ken Berg at 11:00AM on Jul 17th 2007
49. Have to love the one-sided arguments. Now lets argue about how great of a job George Bush has done in office. Or why its okay to be prejudice. Apparently, history has always shown favor to the close-minded majority. Lets take a look at the examples of Mr. Jim Crow, The Revolutionary War, Slavery...the one-sided arguements always came on top!
Corey at 12:57PM on Jul 19th 2007
50. Um... doesn't Israel allow gay men and lesbians to serve? And isn't their military the most feared in the Middle East? And doesn't Britain also allow gay men and lesbians to serve? And doesn't just about every western style democracy? Yet i cannot find one single example of the chaos that Dinesh claims will result. But hey, let's not let reality get in the way of our predjudice.
Theo at 6:38PM on Jul 17th 2007
51. The Ayatollah D'Souza once again goes public with his obsessive fascination with men who have sex with other men.
One need not speculate about the impact of having openly gay men and women in the military -- a growing number of countries around the world accept homosexual military personel. This has been the case in Israel for many years -- ask the Arabs if this has had a negative effect on Israel's ability to defend itself.
No, I'm afraid that the concept of soldiers dropping their weapons on the battlefield, rushing into each other's arms and engaging in hairy, sweaty, muscular man-on-man copulation is merely one of Dinesh D'Souza's more intense fantasies. It's a fantasy that has apparently served its purpose -- after all, D'Souza is a father. But I do wish he would conquer his urge to inflict his sexual confusion on the rest of us.
Oh, and isn't it time the Ayatollah D'Souza dropped the junior high school technique of inventing imaginary friends and then attributing his own thoughts to them? Dinesh, no one here seriously thinks that the bigoted "joke" that ends this post comes from some conveniently anonymous acquaintance in the military. If you don't have the courage to stand behind your own words, don't write them.
richter at 6:48PM on Jul 17th 2007
52. Well for the foreseeable future anyway, the US military will simply continue with the current policy, and I think that is fine.
The military has enough to do - wintess their efforts in Iraq and elsewhere recently - without meddling from social experimenters promoting nonsense like gays in the military.
At the very least, it seems meddlers should save these sorts of experiments for more peaceful times, when our fighting men and women are not so busy.
Ken Berg at 7:22PM on Jul 17th 2007
53. Part of what drives the preference for celibate clery is the notion that if a priest is married, his attention and efforts are devided between his wife and his family, and God.
I think it is better if priests remain single and celibate. That way they can devote all of their effort and attention to God's work. That is my opinon.
I do understand Greek Cathlics allow priests to marry and I understand the Pope can change this rule. It is not Church doctrine or a matter of faith. It is a man-made rule, nothing more, nothing less.
For the foreseeable future however, it seems Roman Catholic priests will continue to remain single and take a vow of celibacy. All candidates for the Roman priesthood understand this. It is not a secret.
Whether the practice of priests taking a vow of celibacy played a role in this scandal is a good subject for debate; certainly Rome is studying the matter.
I do think it a good idea that Roman Catholic seminaries are now being more careful in screening candidates for the priesthood.
Apparently during the late 60's and 70's when coincidentally, most of the priests who are involved in the child molestation scandal were in seminary, there was a general push (by liberals) to allow or at least consider experimenting with, the idea of letting admitted homosexuals become preists. Nowadays of course, it is these same liberals who are calling for us to do away with the Church. Indeed it seems some of them would like nothing less than to use this scandal and how it was handled (admittedly it was handled very poorly) to justify throwing the entire Roman Church on the trash heap of history. Thankfully that of course will not happen.
In the end, the social experiment of allowing admitted gay men to become Roman clergy has been a collossal failure, and the Roman Catholic Church has learned important lessons, not only about the suitablity of gay clergy, but also about the dangers of trying to hide problems like this. Interestingly enough, the Episcopalians are just now beginning to perform the same experiment and in time, will likely learn similar lessons.
It is too bad they (the Episcopalians) do not just look at the Roman Catholic experience and learn from it.
Ken Berg at 7:35PM on Jul 17th 2007
54. A lot of you posting here seem to have the attitude that homosexuals can do no wrong, its never their fault, and boo-hoo they're being picked on again.
The fact of the matter is, you all who fashion yourselves as the "tolerant" crowd cannot tolerate anyone who doesn't accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle. And so people like Mr. D'Souza are attacked, the Catholic Church is attacked, by people like you who do no research and yet have only loud voices.
Check the facts (the stats) on homosexuality in the priesthood: http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2007/07/nature-of-abuse-by-clergy.html
"First: Pedophilia, as in the sexual abuse of pre-pubescent minors, is a phenomenon in itself, it's not connected to sexual orientation
Second: The proper term for most abuse cases is ephebophilia, the attraction to adolescent minors who are sexually mature. This IS connected to sexual orientation. The majority of abuses by priests in this category was of a homosexual nature.
-Therefore, by American standards, most cases are illegal variations of homosexuality."
Tim at 12:27AM on Jul 18th 2007
55. Don't understand the discreet seque following your opening gambit from salacious behaviour in the catholic church, cardinal mahoney's 600mil blood money and then the leap to gays in the military! You've been titillated by the film "300" and carried away by your usual dinesh dementia to subsume pre-christian,attic behaviour and bring it forward as topical non-issue. Gays in the military are innocuous.Have been and will continue to be. But the stuff you concoct in your head is vapid,hackneyed and patently ludicrous. It's not gays in the services that is the "issue" rather it is your anemic mindset that does the most damage.
boredwell at 3:52AM on Jul 18th 2007
56. This is what happens when we let uneducated immigrants into this country - their english is so bad that they cannot tell the difference between homosexuality, heterosexuality and pedophilia.
Agnos at 12:25PM on Jul 18th 2007
57. There's already plenty of gay people in the military, bigot, and they do a fine job. Equating homosexuality and pedophilia goes beyond ignorant into moronic. I'm am sending a letter to AOL asking them to remove your column. Have a nice day.
Mark at 3:30PM on Jul 18th 2007
58. I'm gay. I'm male.
And yet, at 223lbs and 6'3" no one has ever said to my face that I'm somehow "weak" in a fight.
Maybe Diana Suzy needs to put down the feather duster and get a Real Man's Job. She should get some dirt on her hands and know an honest days' work. Instead of pussying around clutching coffee and trying to win the next Oscar Wilde Wanna-be Contest.
Conservatives. America's Biggest Pussys.
Timm at 3:39PM on Jul 18th 2007
59. The only way he'll go away is if you just don't look.
Maybe he'll get back on the Neo-Con Love Boat. He's already out to sea to begin with...
rick at 3:38PM on Jul 18th 2007
60. Wow. What we write on the Internet stays around forever, and since each successive generation is getting progressively more enlightened about gay rights and gay culture, your grandkids are really going to be ashamed when they come across this sort of distasteful, uninformed, and irrational homophobia.
Robert S. at 3:59PM on Jul 18th 2007