In trying to combat Islamic radicalism, liberals and conservatives often turn to secular Muslims and even atheists who have abandoned Islam. These Muslims-in-name-only try to portray themselves as leaders of reform in the Islamic world. As a matter of fact these secular Muslims--like Hirsi Ali and Irshad Manji--have no real Muslim constituency. Indeed their biggest following appears to be among people who dislike religion in general and Islam in particular. Anybody who expects that Muslims will change their religious understanding in response to the demands of atheists and apostates is obviously not living in the real world.
But there are people with impeccable Muslim credentials who are trying to bring about change within Islam. Fortunately the Washington Post featured two of them in its "On Faith" series, giving us a chance to read what they actually say. One of them is Ali Gomaa, the grand mufti of Egypt. Gomaa is the second highest ranking cleric in the Arab world, and he is known as the "show me" sheikh. When jihadists come to him claiming Koranic authority for attacks on civilians or fellow Muslims, Gomaa simply asks them to show him where the Koran gives them their justification. Usually they cannot, and if they try, they are typically overwhelmed with Gomaa's superior knowledge and learning.
A second reformer is Tariq Ramadan, who ironically was denied entry into the United States on the grounds that he once made a contribution to a charitable group affiliated with Hamas. Ramadan is also suspect to many neoconservatives because he is the grandson of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. Read Ramadan's works, however, and you see that he is a trenchant critic of radical interpretations of jihad and sharia. He has also called on European Muslims to eschew violent groups and to become full and participating members of their society.
Want to read Gomaa and Ramadan on the meaning of jihad? On religious freedom in Islam? On the role of Muslim women? You can get an introduction to Gomaa's views here and to Ramadan's views here. We are not going to agree with these fellows on everything--Robert Spencer once complained that Gomaa has very intolerant views on sculpture, which you should keep in mind if you hire him to give art lessons to your children--but they are the ones who will reform Islam, if reform ever comes.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 2)
1. It is understandable that in many religions change is expected and this would include Islam. My personal view is that if a person believes whole-heartedly in their beliefs that they should not compromise them for anyone. As long as it is peaceful and does not involve violence then people should respect it. All I ask in return is the same. I understand Muslims have been extremely ridiculed due to some psychos that call themselves Muslims. I will admit that I have had difficulty overcoming my anger and frustration over past and current violent situations. I have to repeatedly tell myself that the extreme Muslims groups do not speak for the rest. I think being a woman myself it is hard to understand the role of women in Islam. From this angle it appears they are so repressed and treated inferior. To be honest, I don't know if I will ever understand it. All I can say is that if the woman is "truly" happy with her role then more power to her. My worry is the ones that suffer in silence due to fear. True peace does not involve fear in my eyes.
As far as your Muslim moderates, I think it is good to have someone with a good head on their shoulders to guide the people.
E at 12:36AM on Jul 27th 2007
2. Dinesh,
Another good write-up, followed by your views on 'Turkey Ready to Bury Ataturk' and will like to add God Willingly the likes of Ataturks likes for Ever and Ever. In actions of people like Ataturks that's where Muslims have been labeled and lost their identity and become a center of controversy.
Islam is by itself very well defined and complete directive and confirmation to what had been explained in the Torah and Bible, one has to read the translations of the Glorious Koran to well understand the message and meaning of life and there are no doubts about any misgiving on the role of women in any walks of life, the role of women is covered in modesty and in highest respect. People who blair on women's role in Islam are speaking from an abstract mind.
Get to real issues where women are exploited or are let to exploit themselves in form of pornography for the sake of becoming liberated, these are some of the evils facing today and Islam and Muslims are blamed for not been secular, and what not, somebody is just try to pass the Buck around!!!.
Farooq Khan
New Jersey
Mr. Farooq Khan at 7:25AM on Jul 27th 2007
3.
It is excellent that someone, with an authoritative voice, is speaking to the West about Islam, and interprets that religion in a way that is less violent. And the dialogue going both ways, is a step in the right direction.
However, I disagree with your premise, that only Muslims in good standing can affect the philosophy. Change, when it occurs, does so from the top, but usually only after it has raisen up from the bottom. While Dr. Gomaa may have the most impact on a certain category of Muslim, it way well be that many Muslims who are, let's say, less than convinced in their religion would listen to other voices. Ideas spread, and there are many ways to spread them, and in the end it is causing the ideas to be discussed that is important.
But I must say, after reading Dr. Gomaa's explanations of various aspects of Islam, for the life of me I cannot see how American Muslims reconcile their religion with being an American.
American: " I hate what you say, but will fight to the death for your right to say it."
Islam: "I hate what you say, and will kill you if you insult Mohammed."
American: Democracy
Islam: Religous Dictatorship. No right to dissent, change society etc.
America: Equality. Non discrimination
Islam: No equality for women. (they ues the old phony separate but equal trick)
America: Religous freedom
Islam: Islam is the best, and if you leave, watch out. Kill atheists.
While I can see why men would like to be Muslim because of the preferential status the get, I really cannot image what about this religion people like.
cdnbirch at 2:09PM on Jul 28th 2007
4. I want to clarify one misconception about the religion of Islam. It is not right to think or believe that the religion of Islam requires a change. Allah and His Mesenger Mohammad PBUH) brought Islamic rules what last without any change till the world comes to its end. It is in fact the practice and intepretation of various Islamic Religious rules that require proper intepretation and Ijtehad guides people in the right direction. This is why those who follow a mujtahid (a scholar who practices Ijtehad) do not recommend Jihad the way Taliban do.
Taliban, Alqaeda, Lal Masjid Clerics etc have nothing to do with Islam. These people are the black shepp detrrmined to destroy Islam.
Thanks
Syed Irshad Raza at 4:26AM on Jul 28th 2007
5. Interestingly enough, many people have commented on the "inequality" of women, and how "repressed" they are. I would like to post a question to you all, have any of you ever asked a Muslim woman how she feels? I am a Muslim woman that covers, and a practicing dentist. Sorry, but I do not feel oppressed at all. In fact, the other day a colleague made a comment to me, "it is so hard to be in a marriage or relationship in the summer time." When I asked why, he said, "do you see how all of these beautiful women are dressed?" So in fact there is some wisdom in preserving the sanctity of your beauty and your body. Therefore, the attention you get is not from unwanted random strange males on the street, but in the privacy of your own home. So I ask you that instead of passing judgement on a lifestyle you don't know, why not ask those women first or try it for yourself. As for those that believe Islam is a religion that oppresses women, why not read about it first? Did you know that women were given the right to vote far before women of other faiths? Did you also know that whatever money a woman earns is only hers, and whatever money the husband earns, half belongs to the wife? The way people choose to practice and follow the religion is a completely separate issue. So before you knock Islam, you should read what it's all about, not look at the people practicing it. For if you do that, all religions wouldn't seem so hot! :)
Dr. T at 9:01AM on Jul 27th 2007
6. 2 MODS OUT OF A BILLION. THATS A GREAT %! OF THOSE WHO WANT TO BURY US. WW3 HAS STARTED, AND ITS ALL ABOUT RELIGION AND CULTURAL DIFFERENCES. WHEN PAKISTAN GETS NUKED, IAM GONNA THROW A PARTY.
Rhyno101st at 9:02AM on Jul 27th 2007
7. A reply to Dr. T. While I appreciate your contribution to an incredibly important discussion, your argument is problematic. First, your level of contentment is not necessarily the norm, and frankly I think it is probably higher than most, given your level of freedom, which is not enjoyed by the majority of Muslim women outside the West. Second, you pose a false dilemma in your story of your colleague. There is middle ground between "covering" and falling out of one's clothing. Third, yes we need to look at the practitioners of Islam as well as the ideology; this is what is known as realism.
J at 9:43AM on Jul 27th 2007
8. Dinesh,
Tolerence is low in the US for the uneducated population. I know the Qu'ran teaches love and peace, contrary what most people believe. Although I am not Muslim, I began my education to get to know more about Islam. Keep your fight up, you have my support always!
Kitty
kitty at 9:47AM on Jul 27th 2007
9. Well Dr. T I think it is great that you are a happy Muslim woman. I did say more power to you if you were. I can only guess you live in America though. I don't know if you were born native here or immigrated. Being here you definitely have a lot more freedom. I wasn't really referring to the "American" Muslims and probably should have specified that. They get away with far more in America that they ever would in more strict countries. I don't think you have to worry about being stoned on the streets of America anytime soon for not wearing a burqua or being covered. I am aware it is more lenient here and I have worked with Muslim women and even dated Muslim men before.
Me saying I didn't think I would ever understand it does not mean I haven't been around it. I am only being honest about how I feel. You get angry and pass judgement just the same as everyone else. You failed to read my whole post and instead chose to pick out the bad parts.
To you, you feel you preserve the wisdom of your body. I can respect that because you have been allowed to make that choice. In that case it makes it beautiful.
I find it hard to believe that if your husband told you to wear a burqua to the office that you wouldn't be just a tad upset about that. I am sure you would comply but at least be honest about it. In my earlier comments I was trying to express that I saw a difference between extremists and the rest of the masses. Also, I disagree about not looking at the people practicing it. Actions speak louder than words to me. A person can claim they are devout but if they don't apply those morals then they are just full of it (and this is every religion to me). There are also things printed in your holy book that gives permission for a husband to beat his wife for disagreeing with him. So perhaps your husband doesn't "choose" to practice that part of it. In America a man would go to jail for that. In other countries the woman is not so lucky.
You should count your blessings you live in a land where you can speak your mind as a woman.
E at 12:27PM on Jul 27th 2007
10. I know that no matter what, there will be people who think they are first class( not knowing they are the worst of people, in all asspect of life).
No matter how pure islam is these people will always paint it black. but they will only realize the beauty once they see it for themselves with a non-bias atatude. only after this we will all live in peace. the reason why i practice Islam here in the most pure why becasue I am not afriad of my Government Knocking on my door and saying I am terriost. I have everything so there for I am not hungry for these matrialism, i am infact fed up with it.
bluntzx1 at 3:18PM on Jul 27th 2007
11. Dear D. T:
You said, "So I ask you that instead of passing judgement on a lifestyle you don't know, why not ask those women first or try it for yourself. As for those that believe Islam is a religion that oppresses women, why not read about it first? Did you know that women were given the right to vote far before women of other faiths...?"
So, I have some questions for you. You are educated, but I've heard that some Islamic cultures prohibit women or girls from attending school. True or false? You apparently have a job outside the home... do you only leave the home accompanied by a male relative? I understand that's required in some Islamic cultures- True or false? You're a dentist... are you ever alone in the room with a male patient who is not a relative? Isn't that forbidden, plus a lot of the other things that you routinely do in your dental practice? True or false? You mention women voting- are women allowed to vote in ALL Islamic countries, just like men? My impression is that they aren't. True or false? Finally, I've heard that a women accused of anything that seems improper can be killed by her male relatives in an "honor killing" to "restore" the family's honor in some Islamic countries. True or false? I know not all muslims practice their faith these ways, but if these things are commonplace, rather than freakish abberations widely disavowed by 99% of muslims, then why do you take the position that your muslim experience is the norm for Islamic women worldwide? Ever hear of sharia law or dhimmitude?
C. S. at 3:18PM on Jul 27th 2007
12. No religion is pure bluntzx1. Not Islam, not Judaism, not Christianity. They all have blood on their hands sadly and not a bit of it is justified. Ironically they are all from the same source too. You say that we can all only have peace after others realize the beauty of Islam. That is not meeting halfway. You can't expect everyone to see it with a non-bias attitude when you aren't willing to respect the rights of a belief not the same as yours. That would be selfish and blind. If you lead by an example then people will truly see.
I think the basic ideals of all these religions are in theory a wonderful thing. The issues people run into is when it comes time to practice what you preach. Do I see beauty in Islam? Of course I do. Do I see corruptness of actions in some people too? You bet. This is everywhere. Not just in America, people! NO religion or race of people is squeaky clean unfortunately. This is like blaming the gun for killing someone instead of the person holding the gun. I realize more than ever that people just aren't going to see eye to eye on organized religion. It's sad.
E at 4:19PM on Jul 27th 2007
13. @ Dr T (comment 9)
Ahh... the "I'm alright Jack" theory of how the world should operate rears it ugly head.
So what? Big deal! I'm not a theist, I'm obviously not a Muslim... but I'm still concerned that women in Muslim countries have limited choices.
Are you trying to say that because you are 'alright Jack' and you are a Muslim woman that your conclusion is that ALL Muslim women should therefore be 'alright Jack'???
Is that what you are trying to say, Dr T????
I think you and DD would 'get along' just fine... BTW... that is supposed to be an insult...
pboyfloyd at 4:48PM on Jul 27th 2007
14. @ Dr T again...
I have a question for you, Dr T... it the 'Taliban' came to town and explained to you that you were 'just a woman', insisted that you wear the burka and stay home and 'shut your face'...
... do you think that your opinion might change towards those of us who are 'for' freedom of and from religion???????
pboyfloyd at 4:55PM on Jul 27th 2007
15. Dinesh
A few boo-boos with your article above:
- Ayaan Hirsi Ali isn't a moderate Muslim: she's an apostate, and very much on the same page as Robert Spencer (who you revile), Ali Sina, Walid Shoebat and Wafa Sultan.
- Irshad Manji is a moderate in the sense you make of it. There are problems with her stance - namely, in her citation of Quranic verse 13:11 which she uses to demonstrate that 'Allah changes not what is in a people, until they change what is in themselves' (In fact, the full verse goes: 'He has attendant angels, before him and behind him, watching over him by Allah's command. Allah changes not what is in a people, until they change what is in themselves. Whensoever Allah desires evil for a people, there is no turning it back; apart from Him, they have no protector.'
As for Tariq Ramadan, as you point out, he is the grandson of Hasan al Banna - founder of the Muslim Brotherhood - the parent organization to both Hamas and al Qaeda. You think that his one time contribution to Hamas is something to be glossed over, and that his linage to Banna is just co-incidental? I know you disdain Spencer, but what do you think of Daniel Pipes, who has documented Tariq Ramadan's activities here? Here are some of his activities:
He has praised the brutal Islamist policies of the Sudanese politician Hassan Al-Turabi. Mr. Turabi in turn called Mr. Ramadan the "future of Islam."
Mr. Ramadan was banned from entering France in 1996 on suspicion of having links with an Algerian Islamist who had recently initiated a terrorist campaign in Paris.
Ahmed Brahim, an Algerian indicted for Al-Qaeda activities, had "routine contacts" with Mr. Ramadan, according to a Spanish judge (Baltasar Garzón) in 1999.
Djamel Beghal, leader of a group accused of planning to attack the American embassy in Paris, stated in his 2001 trial that he had studied with Mr. Ramadan.
Along with nearly all Islamists, Mr. Ramadan has denied that there is "any certain proof" that Bin Laden was behind 9/11.
He publicly refers to the Islamist atrocities of 9/11, Bali, and Madrid as "interventions," minimizing them to the point of near-endorsement.
As for Gomaa, he recently got himself in a twist over his statements regarding whether apostates should be killed or not.
Traditional Muslims indeed.
Infidel Pride at 3:20AM on Jul 28th 2007