Christopher Hitchens thinks he is being very brave in attacking Islam. So do a lot of other Americans on the right and the on the left. They call the prophet Muhammad a terrorist, the Koran a gospel of violence, and Islam a religion for losers and murderers. Since there is an understandable fear and hostility toward Islamic terrorism in the wake of 9/11, Muslim-bashing has found a big constituency and has now become a very profitable career. Where is the bravery today in denouncing Islam?
Contrast the Islam-bashers on the American lecture circuit with the traditional Muslims who have the courage to take on the Islamic radicals in the Muslim world. The Muslim reformers are doing the really needed work, which is not to get rid of Islam (a ridiculous and impossible project) but to promote traditional Islam over radical Islam. Muslims who are confronting radical Islam in Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are the really intrepid people. Do this and your life can be at stake. No wonder that Hirsi Ali attacks Islam from the safe precincts of the American Enterprise Institute in Washington D.C. Is Irshad Manji all that brave for letting the Muslims have it on her radio show in Canada? "Yes," these valiant souls will no doubt say, "but I've gotten hate mail and even death threats." Welcome to the club, ladies. I'm more impressed with the ordinary Iraqis who face snipers, car bombs, and suicide attackers on a daily basis.
Yes, there are wimps on the American college campus and in various European quarters who kowtow to radical Muslim demands. But these invertebrates cannot say no to anyone, not just Muslims. They are captive to a politically correct, multicultural ideology. The same people who allow black radicals to take over the college library and call for "death to the white man" are the same ones who view calls to Islamic jihad as just another expression of "diversity." The remedy here is not "courage" but rather a recognition that the institutions of freedom need to be defended against political assault.
Hitchens is a witty and erudite columnist. But Islam-bashing in the online magazine Slate or in Vanity Fair? No courage is required there.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 9)
61. Chapter 2, Verse 187
002.187
YUSUFALI: Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.
PICKTHAL: It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you keep to the mosques; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil).
Note: "garment" is used here because a garment brings satisfaction, comfort, protection and warmness to the wearer.
Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html
(three translations).
But, as I am a bit versed in the Qur'aan, and have come across this argument a few times, the verses Stephanie was referring to are: Chapter 2, verses 190-192.
002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Note: drive them from where they drove you out is the same as returning to your home from where you were forcefully removed (Muslims were forced out of Mecca to Medina, and this verse was talking of their return to Mecca, where the Ka'aba is).
Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html
(again, three translations).
Ma salaama (with peace)
Mahen
MahenKhan@aol.com
Mahen at 3:57PM on Aug 1st 2007
62. Megan: You said: "...will very much agree that in many places, especially those with a predominant (if not 100%) Islam influence, the Orwellian "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength" holds true, but we need to get rid of that philosophy and not the religion of those who enforce it."
I think what you fail to understand is that "that philosophy' is that religion. You cannot separate the two. Read the Koran.
Vince at 4:18PM on Aug 1st 2007
63. To Stephanie,
You are the most hateful I have seen so far, and instead of getting mad I am laughing at how blissfully ignorant you are. The Quran says to leave the non-Muslims alone and let them be. But is also says, "Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing."
naila at 1:13AM on Aug 2nd 2007
64. "i dont see where you hippies come from . you base whatever u say on cnn and fox, start rambling on and on and on about nonsense stuff, u know nothing about islam and what it means to be a muslim, you dont know what your religion is about so there really is no point trying to criticise someone else s."
I daresay that most of the people commenting know exactly what "their" religion is about.
One does not need to be a part of something to understand it. Otherwise, history would be meaningless.
" You find it easy to justify the crusades let me remind you of the pope who sent ten thousand kids on a crusade during that time period, i dont understand why he would ? radical shall i call him that ?"
If you're going to quote "history", please do even a minimum of research beforehand. The pope at the time (1212) was Innoncent III, who had nothing to do with this crusade. Likewise, there were two seperate "movements" of people, mostly children, led by two young boys, both of whom claimed to have received a message from Jesus. One movement started in France and ENDED in France, another started in southern "Germany", and ended in Italy. They were, at best, peaceful protests, neither of which made it to Judea/Israel/Palestine.
So again, if you're going to spew nonsense and claim it as "fact", please try doing research beforehand. It lends your rantings a measure of credibility.
" How can you forget Ireland ? Catholic Protestant violence ? ring a bell ? Why wasnt John Paul stopping the Catholics from killing the Protestants in a Western country ? even if he was why did it not influence the irish ?"
The Irish/English conflict is an INTER-social one going back CENTURIES. Citing this as "evidence" of "Christian terrorism" is, again, not understanding history.
" The first attack on the trade center, the guy wasnt a muslim now was he ?"
Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, a Kuwaiti born in Pakistan, was NOT a Muslim....? Really? A member of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, but he wasn't a Muslim....?
" Can you expplain : the kkk, the crusades the catholics ?."
The KKK is not a Christian organization.
The crusades occured 800+ years ago, and was in RESPONSE to Muslim attacks and aggression over the previous 400 years.
The Catholics? What about them?
" A conviction of heresy, seen as treason against Christendom, could involve penalties ranging from a fine to a sentence of capital punishment such as burning at the stake administered by the state. you seem content with crtisizing some other religion without lookin into your, say something when you actually have factual knowledge on something,"
Such "convictions" haven't occured in centuries, and are not relevant to Christianity, in any form, today (and, as others have stated, these people were not Christians, for Christianity does NOT allow this kind of behavior. They were simply living in the larger culture of their time.)
" dont forget how charlamagne ordered the beheading of 4500 people who were supposedly infidels."
I'll take your (discredited) word on that one, but let's consider that Charlemagne lived from about 742/745 to 814 AD....about 1200 years ago.
"This guy posted a coment saying that he did not know of any christian terroristt organizations, wel let me name a few for you : KKK,"
The KKK isn't a Christian organization, and they are barely a terrorist organization. While their activities are generally despicable, they confine them to specific targets, and are not interested in attacking what they think of as "innocent victims."
Muslim terrorists, on the other hand, indiscriminately attack any target that produces the effect they want, be it man, woman, black, white, child, elderly, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Atheist, Bhuddist, it doesn't matter. Anyone in the way of a Muslim terrorist gets killed, period. They want to produce terror in the general populace, and they do not care who they murder to do it.
This is a significant difference.
" NATIONAL LIBERATION FRONT OF TIRPURA, LORDS RESISTANT ARMY, FRERDOMITES, CHRISTIAN PATRIOT."
Who? The fact that I, a person who stays informed has never heard of these "organizations" means they aren't that effective.
" THE CRUSADES,"
....were 800 years ago, and a response to Muslim aggression throughout the region.
" SPANISH INQUISITION "
...was not conducted by people following the teachings of Christ, and, again, were 400+ years ago.
"THE REFORMATION."
I'm sorry, but how is the Reformation a "christian terrorist organization"? For that matter, what does the Reformation have to do at ALL with terrorism?
Do you know what the word "Reformation" means?
" thesse groups that i have named above practice: advocated white supremacy, antisemitism, racism,"
Aside from the inconsistencies already mentioned, Islam advocates Islamic supremacy. The Koran advocates Islamic Supremacy.
And the holy book of Christianity, the New Testament, specifically PROHIBITS Anti-Semitism. That some who claim to be Christian and then ignore the teachings of Christianity does not therefore mean that Christianity tolerates it.
"... homophobia,"
Islam prohibits homosexuality.
" and nativism. Chrisitans have legitimized slavery through the Bible for hundreds of years but no one seems to notice that , but they are all very critical of the last ten years or so where islamic radicalism has surfaced."
You really have no clue about history, do you? No one has "legitimized slavery" for nearly 150 years in the United States, and longer in most of Europe.
As well, many of the slaves sold to the Americas were bought from ARAB SLAVERS.
You cannot whitewash history, misinterpret history, and invent "facts", and be expected to be taken with ANY credibility.
timber at 4:26PM on Aug 1st 2007
65. Unfortunately, "Radical" Islam IS "Traditional" Islam. From day one, Mohammed was a scimitar-swinging thug traversing Africa and the Middle East, saying, "Convert or die. Oh, and if you convert, you'll get to marry up to three 9-year old girls." His unholy blitzkrieg displaced and slaughtered thousands of Catholic Christians who had been living in those areas for 500 years. It's a "religion" that mandates Shariah law and has despised scientific pursuits since the 1100's. Do I think everyone who claims to worship Allah and follow Mohammed is out to kill us? No. But I don't think they're really Muslim, either. Just like people who spew hate and want people to go to hell aren't really "Christians."
Geoff at 4:34PM on Aug 1st 2007
66. "Stephanie,
First let me say that I'm an atheist so I have nothing at stake in this discussion.
I just wanted to point out to you that thus far NO ONE here has sounded more hateful and angry than you, including those who are self-identified Muslims. You have placed your hands squarely on your ears with the understanding that you have obtained all the knowledge you will ever need on this subject, yet all you have proven thus far is that you are absolutely CONSUMED with hatred."
You haven't paid attention to anything she's said. What she has said is that it's ok to hate that which is evil. Why, then, are you repeating what she already claimed? She already said this (though "CONSUMED" is nothing but an emotive word, designed only to denigrate the opponent. Clearly, those who are ACTUALLY "CONSUMED" with anything are not likely going to be posting.)
"I just hope you realize that nothing you are doing or saying is making the world a better place, and it certainly isn't making you a better person."
That is, of course, your opinion. I think she is, in fact, making the world a better place by exposing Islam for what it actually is.
I had no problem with Islam before Islam declared war on me and everyone like me. Sadly, I didn't realize that that war was declared centuries before I was born.
"Mahen has proven herself over the course of this discussion to be more than civil and courteous, yet you still regard her with such belligerence."
Civility and courteousness are overrated.
" Your hatred of Islam has sunk in so deep that you appear to hate all of its practitioners as well."
Well, hello. That would be self evident. If you follow an ideology of death and violence, one shouldn't be surprised that one is hated for it.
" In the end that is your loss, as you'll be missing out on a lot of wonderful people. "
Doubtful.
timber at 4:38PM on Aug 1st 2007
67. Islam deserves some criticism, but Christopher Hitchens isn't the person to do it. He has written the book "God isn't Great," and there was a recent, almost scathing, critique of the book on the op-ed page of the Wall Street Journal.
Now, if a church leader of a mainline Protestant denomination, such as a Lutheran or a Methodist bishop, wrote an article critical of Islam, that would make for good reading.
Kent at 4:36PM on Aug 1st 2007
68. re: post #55. Will someone please explain to me why the holy book of Islam has been translated into a dead dialect of English from the 16th/17th centuries?
Makes about as much sense as a 19th century book (the book of Mormon) being written in the same dialect.
timber at 4:40PM on Aug 1st 2007
69. [[And if Islaam is all that you seem to think, why did so many slaves (of non-Muslims) convert to Islaam while still under their masters?]]
Maybe because they (or their parents) were Muslims in the first place? Much of Western Africa was already Muslim at the time that people were being kidnapped into slavery. It makes sense that people would return to their ancestral religion, doesn't it? That isn't really a reflection on Islam. It's just human nature. Often it has more to do with ethnic pride than with a deep consideration of competing theologies.
OomYaaqub at 4:41PM on Aug 1st 2007
70. To Stephanie and all others out there against Islam,
First of all since your so educated on the matter, you should know no follower of Islam is called a "Mohammedan." And before you quote anything from the Quran, make sure you have actual verse numbers because I can supposingly quote things from the Torah and the Bible as well.
Bash Islam all you want, but your words will not change the matter, change people's believes on Islam, nor change peoples mind on what they believe Islam is other than their own experiences...so give it a rest and find something better to do with your time and day than responding to everyone.
In other words- Get a life...because your words will not change any situation out there, from the US Government fighting Iraq in the name of helping Iraqi citizens when in actuality it is for oil, or for that matter- history of Christians/Jews/Muslims fighting for what they believed at the time...it all boils down to God, Gold, or Glory...thats how all humans have been and will always be. Today it might be Muslims, tomorrow it might be another religion/idiology/ or "warlord".
If you feel your opinion is so important and correct and you have balls to say what you feel...go express yourself to Muslims or in an actual gathering with Muslims- not with Christians or Jews. Then I'll believe your brave to say what you feel.
Regardless of what you think "Mohammedans" reasons are for doing what they do, you need to be more educated before you try to write on forums. Understand the difference between culture and religion with in Muslim countries and then tell me what Islam is really all about. Majority of people confuse the difference between the two. What Al-Qaida and other extremist practice (regardless of religion) is a mix of the two. Learn the differences, read the quran without any bias of what is going on in the world, and then tell me your opinion.
tanya0803 at 4:59PM on Aug 1st 2007
71. First of all, I want to thank Lailah for her input, as well as everyone else.
Secondly, Gaby, I would like to ask you to provide the sources that back you conviction. To present Islaam, or any other belief system, by presenting false information would be considered absolutely absurd. Say a person wishes to convert to Islaam, he or she will do as much research about Islaam as possible before converting. If Islaam teaches all the stuff you mentioned, would it be better if I include more links in Arabic (with English transliteration), and an Arabic-English dictionary for those who do not speak Arabic? There is no benefit in lying about a belief system to a person interested in that belief system, because afterall, once the person finds the truth (which would be readily accesible to anyone who wishes to or has converted to the religion or belief system)?
The reason I provided more than one link was so that people could visit the different sources and appreciate the striking similarity of the translations, most with the Arabic text included so as to make it easier for the inquisitive to look up the definitions or to ask someone else who is familiar with Arabic and English.
I would also like to remind you, as a fellow commenter already did, that Muhammad was illiterate, and therefore could not have compiled the Qur'aan himself. If you still believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'aan, then I might have something that might intrigue you:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/
http://quran.org/
I do not want to seem on the offensive, but rather on the defensive. Therefore, if it so happens that I seem rude or offensive to anyone, I apologize in advance. Also, I do not claim that Islaam is the best belief system or that any other belief system is inferior. I respect all belief systems that teach peace, justice, and tranquility.
Ma salaama (with peace),
Mahen
MahenKhan@aol.com
Mahen at 4:57PM on Aug 1st 2007
72. First of all, I want to thank Lailah for her input, as well as everyone else.
Secondly, Gaby, I would like to ask you to provide the sources that back you conviction. To present Islaam, or any other belief system, by presenting false information would be considered absolutely absurd. Say a person wishes to convert to Islaam, he or she will do as much research about Islaam as possible before converting. If Islaam teaches all the stuff you mentioned, would it be better if I include more links in Arabic (with English transliteration), and an Arabic-English dictionary for those who do not speak Arabic? There is no benefit in lying about a belief system to a person interested in that belief system, because afterall, once the person finds the truth (which would be readily accesible to anyone who wishes to or has converted to the religion or belief system)?
The reason I provided more than one link was so that people could visit the different sources and appreciate the striking similarity of the translations, most with the Arabic text included so as to make it easier for the inquisitive to look up the definitions or to ask someone else who is familiar with Arabic and English.
I would also like to remind you, as a fellow commenter already did, that Muhammad was illiterate, and therefore could not have compiled the Qur'aan himself. If you still believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'aan, then I might have something that might intrigue you:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/
http://quran.org/
I do not want to seem on the offensive, but rather on the defensive. Therefore, if it so happens that I seem rude or offensive to anyone, I apologize in advance. Also, I do not claim that Islaam is the best belief system or that any other belief system is inferior. I respect all belief systems that teach peace, justice, and tranquility.
Ma salaama (with peace),
Mahen
MahenKhan@aol.com
Mahen at 4:57PM on Aug 1st 2007
73. "Let Islam be practiced in its proper venue. Jail. Enough with these muderous thugs and butchers. Islam is the religion of human barbarity and best left to cavemen."
You are so right, but make sure you have enough room in your jail for Christians,Jews,and any other believer of religious dogma. There all one and the same.
John at 5:05PM on Aug 1st 2007
74. [[I would also like to remind you, as a fellow commenter already did, that Muhammad was illiterate, and therefore could not have compiled the Qur'aan himself.]]
That makes no sense. There was a time before writing was invented, yet people composed long poems. A clever person could do it. We also have no proof that Muhammed WAS illiterate--how could a traveling businessman be totally illiterate, anyway? He had to be able to read somewhat in order to make sure his boss wasn't being cheated. (And considering that he married the boss, we have to assume he did a good job.) Without formal education, sure. But the great teacher John Holt proved how much people can learn with no formal education whatsoever.
Yep, I have a Muslim screen name, given to me by an Arab friend. But I do expect people to be sensible. The Quran is no more "miraculous" than any other book. I don't think the Bible is miraculous either. Obviously it was written by imperfect human beings.
OomYaaqub at 5:11PM on Aug 1st 2007
75. Excellent reading on Islam and Mohamme. Read "Islamic Invasion" by Robert Morey
Nick at 5:22PM on Aug 1st 2007