31. #25 Fernando. Do you think you could be any more disingenuous? Read your post again and see if it makes sense. You 'physically' are there watching the second plane hit the tower and you already know what's going on, and while debris is raining down on you you're "thinking about this admin. and talking to your conservative neighbors??? I vote for YOU to be president since you're clairvoyant and can tell us when the next attack will occur. Oh, and can I have tonights lottery numbers? Precisely why you libs are not taken seriously, and why you lose elections!

Lizard944 at 6:53PM on Aug 7th 2007

32. Fernando - I'm all for INTELLIGENT debate, which this isn't. It's just more bitching and finger pointing with no clear directions to answers. America's problem is that we're lazy. We think sitting in front of our computers and our TVs complaining about the state of this country will fix it. Newsflash; it won't. Try getting off our asses and actually doing some thing like *gasp* voting.

Problem: Year after election year the same gutless wonders get voted BACK in to office after they've already proven how completely unreliable and weak they are. Answer: Stop voting for them.

All the rest of this crap is a waste of air.

But by all means, have your fun with it. I'll just step away from all this pontificating and try not to get any on my shoes.

John Q at 7:23PM on Aug 7th 2007

33. NO ONE is listening to the average American's phone calls. Do you really think our security agencies have that much staff? They get viable information on specific people who constitute a threat and THEN try to listen to THEM confirm the info. A few dozen dangerous people...not millions, get it?? Get a grip folks. Have you EVER seen a person you know get dragged off to jail without a reason???? Or even WITH a reason? Don't believe the lies the Democrats try to push. It can cost you and your loved ones your lives. Civil rights don't mean a thing if a terrorist kills you. Would I temporarily trade "civil rights" to insure my kids are safe? Hell, yes. The one who "gets" that concept is the one who will win in November.

LJ at 8:18PM on Aug 7th 2007

34. Dave (#24), I'm amazed that anyone would think Pres. Clinton had success in the war on terror. I'm not a Clinton-hater, and he did have some success on domestic issues. Clinton was able to create a brief budget surplus.

But, let's be clear: President Clinton was an unmitigated disaster in managing foreign affairs and terrorism. He was a total failure. In case anyone doesn't remember it: not only did we have the original WTC bombing in '93, but 2 U.S. embassies (the land on which is just as American as NYC) were destroyed. The U.S.S. Cole was sunk. The Somalia "action" was an abject failure. Clinton neglected Darfur and Rwanda. Clinton failed in Haiti. Clinton had minimal success in Kosovo. And I'm a guy who DOESN'T hate the former president. So, an strong argument can be made that Pres. Bush's administration (for whatever reasons) has not struggled under numerous terror attacks against U.S. property/territories the way Clinton did. I'm merely pointing that out as a possible reason why both houses of Congress have been so reluctant to challenge Bush's policies.

And, Fernando, I disagree that there is a dearth of quality debate left in America. There has always been an abundance of name-callers and demagogues mixed in amongst the reasonable debaters. Our country has a history of duels (e.g. Burr/Hamilton), mayhem, and murder because people who were supposed to be intelligent couldn't debate reasonably. So, that phenomenon didn't begin recently. Relax.

Fred at 9:20PM on Aug 7th 2007

35. Fred -- I was referring to the posters who wrote short "dems are unpatriotic" type posts. No substance. Just name-calling.

John Q -- Democracy begins with discussions like these ... and end with action ... yes, voting is great ... but calling your representatives and holding them accountable for their votes even more important.

Bush ran as a compassionate conservative. Has he acted as such? NO!

After Katrina, Bush gave what I thought, at the time, was a turning point speech ... he talked about how the hurricane exposed deep seeded racial problems that we needed to address ... Has Bush done anything to heal these racial problems? NO!

Nice speech. But no action.
We democrats, republicans, independants, whatever ... we need to hold our representative government accountable ... they are supposed to represent us.

Lizzard:
I did not mean to be so confusing.
I just read my post.
I did compressed time in my description, but the events did happen as I told them.
It took maybe 20 to 40 minutes for the debris to reach my neighborhood. I lived approximately 1.5 miles from the World Trade. My family now lives approximately 2-3 miles away.

I did see the second plane fly into the tower as it was happening ... most New Yorkers did ... we were watching the news before leaving for work ... and a traffic chopper witnessed the second plane ... my wife and I watched in horror ... the flightpath was deliberate ... it was obviously NOT an accident.

At that moment I was stunned.
I thought about friends who worked and lived near the towers.
I thought about the people in the towers, and in the planes.

I also thought about how our administration was going to react.

Having listened to GW's paranoia laden speeches about unspecified unkown enemies, while he was running for president ... it was reasonable to expect that such a person would react the way he did when he did.

It was also reasonable to believe that the American people would react the way we did, stunned as we were. The administration knew this and exploided it ... they are still exploiting 9/11.

This is not clairvoyance. This is human nature.

We were played!!!

And now were paying for it. ACTUALLY we'll be paying for it for the rest of our lives, the lives of our children, their children, and their children.

Fernando at 10:25PM on Aug 7th 2007

36. The democrats today are just LOONY! Who would consider voting for Hilary or Edwards for that matter, the man paid 400 dollars for a simple HAIRCUT!!! Would you really want this man in charge of our country?

Hailee at 1:18PM on Aug 8th 2007

37. One last thing ... what does "ultra liberal" mean?

My understanding is that a liberal is one who looks at all sides of a question before answering. As opposed to a conservative, who answers based on a preconcieved set of opinions and rules.

Is ultra liberal, ultra-middle-of-the-road?

I think some people confuse liberals with leftists. Which is far from the truth. Liberals are middle of the road type people ... "right-ish" on some issues and "left-ish" on others.

The left ... the socialists ... believe that we should all share.
That way we all have.
You know, like Christ tried to teach us with the miracle of the fishes and loaves. When everyone brought their food into one big pile in the middle, there was plenty for everyone.
As opposed to some hoarding and others going without.

I'm tired. Peace be with you. Goodnight.

Fernando at 11:09PM on Aug 7th 2007

38. Fernando, I'm not seeing the connection on how we were "played." You cannot deny the fact that the world is a safer place without Saddam. At the time of the first troops landing in Bagdad, Bush had approx. 88% approval rating, and no one was saying that "this is a war for oil" or "what if there are no WMD?" I don't think I need to go over the history of the need for this war on terror, but the facts remain that the daily machete wielding, podium banging speeches, daring us to do anything, were getting old, and 12 years of harsh language towards him just wasn't getting the job done. I don't actually ever remember WMD's as being a selling point for the war, only that we did see massive aircraft and convoy movements on satellite, which DID harbor thousands of tons of conventional weapons, violations of "no fly" zones, UN inspection refusals, undeniable killing fields, and a history of WMD use against 5,000 civilians. Update: Saddam hung at the end of a rope for his crimes against humanity. So it became the liberal myopic focus on "no WMD's found," as the "smoking gun" for why we shouldn't have invaded, convieniently forgetting all of the other peripheral activities.

Lizard944 at 11:21PM on Aug 7th 2007

39. What is scary is that you liberals are in lockstep with the most conservative people in America, Libertarians.

Since when did Democrats start believing in protecting the rights of the indviduals? I was always of the notion that Democrats believe that the public good is more important than the rights of the individual.

Kent at 12:02AM on Aug 8th 2007

40. Lizard -- there were plenty of people saying that there were no WMDs ... that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 ... but as always those were marginalized and ignored.
When I say we were played, I meand exactly that, Bush took an 88% approval and veered off in a direction that had (has) absolutely nothing to do with terrorism ... Saddam was an inefectual despot ... a blow-hard ... all bark no bite ...

The American press being a for profit venture had to burry stories that contradidted the President. (They were published, usually deep inside the paper under headlines that sounded supportive of the president.) You don't sell very many papers (or air-time) if you go against 88%.

But had listened to listner sponsored radio, or foreign TV (ie. BBC), plenty of American voices got air-time. Just not here.

Those American were villified as treasonous wackos ... but they were right ...

And by the way, since 9/11, there has been an increase of terrorism worldwide against Americans and American interests ... because of our actions.

Getting back to the topic at hand ... spineless democrats ... what can we do in the next election? Who can we vote for?

Fernando at 7:55AM on Aug 8th 2007

41. I wouldn't call the Democrats followers so much as "believers in the law" if you want to speak like your president.....obtusely.

History has already been unkind to W. Even Hoover and Harding get bumped up in the rankings (who by the way, fared much worse in popularity than Carter--you must be confusing Nixon with Bush now for the two modern presidents on record with the worst poll ratings) LOL--no surprise there as to why--with Cheney as a bookend to both of them.

Laughable, unscrupulous, corrupt, hypocritical, unintelligent, coarse, crude, rude, arrogant, demeaning, sexist, shortsighted, tactless, and as unChristianlike as one can be....these are all words one can use to describe your current president. And I thank God everyday that not only do I not support him, that I didn't vote for him, but I actively go out of my way to oppose him on just about everything he's dumped on us over 6 long, tortuous years. That's America, baby!

Suzanne at 7:56AM on Aug 8th 2007

42. Suzanne ... you hit the nail on the head.!

I'd love to hear your take on the democratic contenders ... I'd love to live in a world where Dennis Kucinich could become president ... but alas, we live in the US.

Fernando at 1:01PM on Aug 8th 2007

43. What in the world does farting goats have to do with anything?

Dennis at 1:12PM on Aug 8th 2007

44. Hailee,
All rich people pay far too much for haircuts ... it doesn't matter if they are democratic or republican or independent.

But I would still vote for Edwards before voting for any of the republican candidates.

Fernando at 1:55PM on Aug 8th 2007

45. I am surprised at the lack of testicular fortitude shown by the Dems. They have been the party of spine for most of their history,..until just after Johnson.

Consider the Presidents that catapulted us into all of America's wars. All Democrats:

WWI, Woodrow Wilson, Democrat
WWII, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Democrat
WWII (part II), Harry Truman, Democrat
Bomb Hiroshima, Harry Truman, Democrat
Korean War, Harry Truman, Democrat
Vietnam War, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Democrat
Cuban Missile Crisis, John F. Kennedy, Democrat
Vietnam War Escalation, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Democrat

So why do you suppose the right is so wrong about Dems being historically "weak" on defense? Why do you suppose they hide the above facts? Why are today's Dems so reticent to stand up for what is right with this proud history of defiance behind them?

Grow some Dems,....we need you!!!

Greg in Detroit

Greg at 3:48PM on Aug 9th 2007