Mitt Romney's victory in the Iowa Republican caucus is not, by itself, very significant. But it does show Romney's strength among conservative activists, and it confirms that his candidacy cannot be dismissed. Many analysts across the political spectrum believe that Romney won' t have a chance to be a serious contender until he addresses the Mormon issue. Many political strategists have suggested that Romney make a move similar to the one that John F. Kennedy made when he went before the Baptists and essentially told them that his Catholicism would have no bearing whatsoever on his decisions as president. So should Romney make a similar declaration?
No. What Kennedy did was perhaps politically necessary to diffuse anti-Catholic prejudice. Yet this is not the correct meaning of separation of church and state, which as the founders envisioned it would merely forbid the establishment of a national church or official theological orthodoxy. (In fact the founders had no problem with states having their own established churches, and several of them did.) Nowhere did Washington, Adams, Madison or even Jefferson (perhaps the least devout of the founders) claim that presidents could not be influenced by their own religious convictions. They would rightly have recognized this as absurd. Of course what was absurd for the founders is not necessarily absurd in the Kennedy household. If President John F. Kennedy knew how to govern without his Catholicism, Senator Ted Kennedy's moral values are so private that he refuses to impose them even on himself!
Leaving aside our peculiar Camelot crew, most people cannot separate their religious beliefs from who they are. Romney has a wonderful opportunity to make an important distinction. The distinction is between Mormon theology and Mormon morality. Theology is the province of revelation, and it is in the nature of revelation to be outside the province of rational debate. I cannot, for example, give you reasons why I believe in the Trinity. Morality, however, may derive from religion but it is entirely defensible in terms of reason. I don't need to appeal to the Book of Daniel or Jonah in the belly of the whale in order to convince you why government policy should protect human life or support the family as the institution for raising the next generation. Moral argument is at the core of what democratic debate and democratically-approved legislation is all about, as the debates over slavery and the civil rights movement clearly show.
Mormon theology is, at least for us non-Mormons, very strange. But Mormon morality is not strange at all. In fact, it is generally the same morality espoused by traditional Christianity and also by traditional Judaism, traditional Islam, and traditional Hinduism. Mormons as a group are wonderful people: creatively entrepreneurial, thoroughly devoted to their families, law-abiding and decent. They are, in fact, exemplary Republicans and conservatives. Romney should argue that his Mormon theology is a private belief but Mormon ethics and values are precisely those traditional American principles that built this country and now need to be revived.
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 8)
61. to RW (Aug 13 11:33 PM)
Sonia Johnson was not excommunicated for advocating for the ERA, but for publicly and viciously attacking the Church. LDS church disciplinary proceedings are always confidential, so we have only her side of the story. Later she became a lesbian and even later denounced all sexual relations as exploitative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonia_Johnson
Samuel Wooley Taylor was never excommunicated and remained a member of the Church to the end of his life. He writings are widely read both both by members and non-members of the Church.
http://library.usu.edu/specol/manuscript/collms145.html
Your falsehoods and misrepresentations betray your anti-Mormon agenda.
Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr'gmail'com
Tracy Hall Jr at 1:05AM on Aug 14th 2007
62. Wow! I never really knew how many non-mormons don't know ANYTHING about mormonism! I am a mormon, and most of the things that non-members throw out there is simply not true. If you want to really know what the church is all about, maybe you need to actually talk to the people themselves. It frusterates me how people can be so quick to judge any religion, especially on stories of friends, like Cdnbirch's stories in an above comment. She got stories from an angry friend who wanted to bring the church down, so who are you going to trust? By the way, we do accept blacks in any way, shape or form! That was a false story! Come on people, you have a brain, use it! Find out for yourself! If you knew something, you would know that Latter-Day Saints churches all over the world have the same beliefs, we believe women and men are equal yet have different roles because of our divine natures, we are not racist, we accept EVERY race in our church and church programs, infact, most of the church membership is outside of the U.S., with beliefs that are not funny, but if understood correctly can make a lot of sense. Mormons who practice polygamy are not really mormons did you know that? They just say they are; they don't practice what real mormons teach! Most importantly we believe in God and Jesus Christ as our Savior. My goodness, just figure it out for yourself...why get information secondhand, people? I did a lot of research for religion before joining, and so it's good to know I didn't act on what people were telling me, because most of it was just assumptions. Want to know? www.lds.org
Holly at 1:20AM on Aug 14th 2007
63. "16. Ever notice how people that know nothing about the core beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are always the first to tell you everything that is wrong with the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?"
Ever notice how people who cannot defend their cult theology choose to say that others "know nothing about the core beliefs of (insert cult name here)" without bothering actually PROVE that they "know nothing"?
If you're going to make a statement like that, don't just sit there and follow it up with nothing. Lay out WHERE those "people" are wrong about your "core beliefs." Correct them, if you can.
Otherwise, why waste your breath?
Fact: Mormon theology states that God was once a man, like all of us, and became a God through his good works, and approval by the council of "other gods."
Fact: Mormon theology states that WE all can become "gods" as well, so long as we do what Joseph Smith/Brigham Young/Whoever is changing "doctrine" these days.
Fact: The Book of Mormon is largely plaigarized from the Old and New Testaments, William Shakespeare, and other works of antiquity.
Fact: The Book of Mormon is "written" in 17th century English...an outdated dialect...instead of 19th century English, such as the early Mormons spoke in their day to day use, despite being a "clear revelation from God for the world today."
Fact: Smith was visited by the "angel" "Moroni", who told him where "gold plates" containing God's "new" revelation were, despite the fact that these "gold plates" were witnessed by no one else, and cannot be produced, despite the fact that the was the 19th century America...not the 1st century Roman Empire.
So....where am I wrong?
Just embrace your cult already!
timber at 3:43AM on Aug 14th 2007
64. Timber, here's where you are wrong:
All of the “facts” you listed are half-truths and therefore NOT FACTUAL. Your first two points are related. President Lorenzo Snow did say that 'As man is, God once was; and as God is, man may become.' He was the fifth president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) and a prophet, just like the prophets from the Old and New Testament. But nowhere in doctrine or scripture is this process detailed, and nothing in LDS teaching EVER says that only through good works is how eternal salvation is achieved. It is through Grace, after all that we can do. Grace of the Savior and good works. And LDS and Biblical scriptures are very clear, Salvation ONLY comes through the Savior, Jesus Christ, not a prophet or anyone else.
The next three comments are also related. The Book of Mormon is translated from ancient texts. The similarity to the Bible is because it also contains the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is a testament that he speaks the same words to all of God's children. There are absolutely NO quotes from Shakespeare or any other ancient texts (a few chapters from Isaiah are included because they were the scriptures that the ancient Americans studied). Although there are similarities to the Bible in teachings, the prophets of the ancient Americas are recounted in a wonderful history and with their own stories, but the doctrine of Christ is the same. As for the dialect of the Book of Mormon and early America, the dialect is like the King James version of the Bible, with a highly formal and respectful voice. I am an English major and the early 19th century writings are not so different, but they vary widely based on region and education of the author. The “Clear revelation from God for the world today” refers to the message and lessons in the Book of Mormon of a whole nation that fell because of pride and wickedness, not the language it was written in. As for your claim that there were no witnesses, this is totally false. On the second page of the introduction of the Book of Mormon is written The Testimony of Three Witnesses and The Testimony of Eight Witnesses. All eleven witnesses saw and held the plates with the engravings written in them. The Three witnesses also saw an angel of God that showed them the plates. These three men, Oliver Cowdry, David Witmer and Martin Harris, all left the church, but NEVER denied what they saw. Cowdry eventually returned to the LDS church in his old age.
The Book of Mormon is not so influential because of scientific evidence or great debates, but because of the promise that anyone can pray about it and ask God for themselves if it is true.
Anyone can read the whole thing on LDS.ORG.
And back to the point of the article, that Mitt’s morality makes him an excellent Presidential candidate.
Teri at 4:56AM on Aug 14th 2007
65. Many of the inmates in Utah jails today didn't grow up in Utah but are transplants from California and other states. After Porvo was picked as the best city to live in by Money magazine a few years ago droves of outsiders came in making it a more homogenous state but also much like any other with higher home prices and rising crime. It isn't Brigham Young's Utah anymore.
As for the comment about being kicked out of the church for refusing to throw a black kid out of her cub pack that isn't possible. That friend needs a lie detector test to get to the real reason she was excommunicated.
I know many liberal Mormon Democrats and the church is becoming far too diverse to follow the GOP in lockstep.
Don at 6:00AM on Aug 14th 2007
66. dear las vegas
the constitution divinely inspired?
is this the same constitution that held that blacks were not equal and allowed for their slavery?
is this the same constitution that held that women could not vote?
doesnt sound very define or egalitarian to me!!!
and those are only two examples of how flawed the constitution is!!!
George Morales at 3:45PM on Aug 14th 2007
67. When I moved up here, I thought they are Christians and follow the Christ other Christians follow. Now I'm confused by this statement from their own President:
The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times'" (June 20, 1998)
So who's this Christ President Hinkley talking about?
Varghese Jacob at 11:16AM on Aug 14th 2007
68. If Mr. Romney waits he takes the chance on allowing others, including other candidates and the media, to define how his religion would impact his Presidency. If I were his advisor I would suggest he take the issue away from his opponents (as much as possible) by addressing it and defining it as much as possible on his terms. If he waits, once people have their opinion formed, he might be too late. Not mentioning it and not addressing it can give the impression he is trying to dodge it. He can make it a strength if he addresses it. Allowing others to define it makes it a weakness.
phoenix arizona auto insurance, car, home owner, life insurance quote at 10:27AM on Aug 14th 2007
69. Teri, here's where you're wrong:
You said: "...nothing in LDS teaching EVER says that only through good works is how eternal salvation is achieved. It is through Grace, after all that we can do. Grace of the Savior and good works. And LDS and Biblical scriptures are very clear, Salvation ONLY comes through the Savior, Jesus Christ, not a prophet or anyone else."
Have you read Chapter 47, entitled "Exaltation" in the book Gospel Principles? It's online at Lds.org and I suggest you read it before you try defending mormonism again.
Christians believe that salvation means living in heaven with God and their loved ones. Mormons believe that salvation means immortality only, and in order to live with God and your family forever you must ACHIEVE exaltation by following a checklist of REQUIREMENTS, such as: Doing geneology, not drinking coffee, tea, or alcohol, following the current prophet (who has said that girls should not have more than one ear piercing in each ear, for ex.), and sharing the mormon gospel in word and deed. No wonder mormons look and act so perfect. They believe they won't get into heaven (their version of it anyway) if they don't follow all the "requirements." So much for Jesus.
midwestgirl at 11:37AM on Aug 14th 2007
70. I think most of those bawling about Mormonism and babbling on about what they think they know about Mormon beliefs and theology is nonsense.
I am a Roman Catholic and can assure you I do not know much about Mormon theology and frankly, I am not very much interested in it. However I do know that the Mormons with which I am acquainted (in my life) are decent, pleasant, hard working family men and women and that is good enough for me.
This is not a Catholic country, and it is certainly not a Mormon country either. We have always been a majority Protestant Christian nation that values the idea of freedom of religion and that is fine.
None of our founding documents mention the so-called "separation of church and state" that left wingers love to bray about. Instead, our Constituion has what is known in educated circles as the Establishment Clause; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Until the 1960's this clause was used to protect the freedom to exercise one's religion.
Indeed, this protection has been enough to see this nation through more than two centuries of freedom.
I do not agree with those who try to pervert the Establishment Clasue and use it to curtail the free expression of religious ideas.
Of course any president brings his belief system into office with him. He brings his own morality to bear on the problems he faces and how he leads and guides the nation. People who do not like that idea - most of the more strident anti-religious types are toward the political left - are generally types who do not like the idea of a set of moral rules like the Ten Commandments. They do not like any morality imposed upon them.
Historically nobody has listened to these bohemian types, but since the 60's, they have managed to weasel themselves into positions in society where they routinely corrupt young minds and work to lower social mores all around, and otherwise work to tear or even shred the fabric of society. Sadly, they have to some degree succeeded.
In summary; while I am not a Mormon and would not begin to pontificate on the value of Mormon theology or beliefs, I do think Romney is a decent and very capable man who would represent Republicans quite well in the general election and that ultimately, he would make a fine president.
Ken Berg at 10:41AM on Aug 14th 2007
71. D'Souza's intelligence problem........sorry no solution.
midiwiz58 at 6:35PM on Aug 14th 2007
72. I think most of those bawling about Mormonism and babbling on about what they think they know about Mormon beliefs and theology is nonsense.
I am a Roman Catholic and can assure you I do not know much about Mormon theology and frankly, I am not very much interested in it. However I do know that the Mormons with which I am acquainted (in my life) are decent, pleasant, hard working family men and women and that is good enough for me.
This is not a Catholic country, and it is certainly not a Mormon country either. We have always been a majority Protestant Christian nation that values the idea of freedom of religion and that is fine.
None of our founding documents mention the so-called "separation of church and state" that left wingers love to bray about. Instead, our Constituion has what is known in educated circles as the Establishment Clause; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Until the 1960's this clause was used to protect the freedom to exercise one's religion.
Indeed, this protection has been enough to see this nation through more than two centuries of freedom.
I do not agree with those who try to pervert the Establishment Clasue and use it to curtail the free expression of religious ideas.
Of course any president brings his belief system into office with him. He brings his own morality to bear on the problems he faces and how he leads and guides the nation. People who do not like that idea - most of the more strident anti-religious types are toward the political left - are generally types who do not like the idea of a set of moral rules like the Ten Commandments. They do not like any morality imposed upon them.
Historically nobody has listened to these bohemian types, but since the 60's, they have managed to weasel themselves into positions in society where they routinely corrupt young minds and work to lower social mores all around, and otherwise work to tear or even shred the fabric of society. Sadly, they have to some degree succeeded.
In summary; while I am not a Mormon and would not begin to pontificate on the value of Mormon theology or beliefs, I do think Romney is a decent and very capable man who would represent Republicans quite well in the general election and that ultimately, he would make a fine president.
Ken Berg at 10:44AM on Aug 14th 2007
73. cdnbirch (comment #12) is full of hate and lies. People of all races are welcomed into the Mormon church, native americans, hispanics, african americans, indians, you name it, they are all welcomed in and they are all allowed to hold the church's version of the priesthood if they qualify for it morally. They are also welcomed into the cub scout packs that the church sponsors. I live in Utah, I see and hear it all the time. Ive never heard of someone being expelled from the church for NOT being racist. Thats outright bullshit. cdnbirch, whatever lies you've been fed, I'm sorry you believe them so easily. For the record, no, I'm not mormon, but I do live in Utah and have plenty of Mormon friends who I love and respect, and it irks me GREATLY when someone starts spouting bullshit about things they dont understand. Whatever stories you heard from your "friends", cdnbirch, were probably highly skewed and altered versions of what really happened, to take fault off themselves. One of your friends "hides" from the church? I officially removed my name from the mormon membership records when I was 13, way before I could get "locked" into it, but they havent harrassed me at all. PROBABLY because I dont bother THEM! If your friend is getting "harrassed", its for reasons other than the fact that he left the mormons. My mormon friends and neighbors have never bothered me, and I live right in the middle of the mormon capitol! The only polygamists in Utah are an offshoot called the FLDS, they are not recognized by official mormon leadership. The FLDS live in Hildale, UT/Colorado City, AZ, on the border of the two states, quite a distance from any large cities in Utah. They are the "creepy" mormons that people often get mainstream mormonism confused with. The leader of these creepy mormons was recently caught and is on trial now. In Utah. By a judicial system constituted largely of mainstream mormons. Mormons dont tolerate the behaviors that the FLDS engage in, morally or legally.
anon at 10:52AM on Aug 14th 2007
74. Religious beliefs are by definition irrational. They are simply a matter of faith. In the Christian Bible, faith is defined as the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". What a crock! Brain washing children at the point of their greatest vulnerability to believe what they are taught using threats of eternal damnation as well as other temporal sanctions is inhumane and should be criminalized. If you're an adult and you wish to give in to your own worst fears about your "mortality", fine. But, keep your damn mitts off the minds of children who cannot defend themselves against the tyranny of bad ideas.
Gary at 10:53AM on Aug 14th 2007
75. No matter how you cut it, Romney's religion is his achilles' heel. The GOP real power base is the bible belt--they'll go for a Mormon like kids go for liver and onions. Sorry folks, just won't happen. It's not right, but it's reality--no matter how D'Souza tries to slice and dice the image by separating religion from morality (which is totally bizarre, btw). Bush's name will be seldom mentioned in this campaign, except in negative terms from both sides. What the GOP needs is someone who can consolidate and expand their traditional base, which has been steadily shrinking over the past couple of years--as Reagan did. People are hoping that if they squint enough, Thompson will start looking like Reagan. Might be time for the GOP to look ahead.
michael white at 11:01AM on Aug 14th 2007