Turkey just had an election, and the Turkish people just administered the secular parties and the goons in the military a well-deserved kick in the rear end. The secular parties have for decades considered Turkey their private property, with elections a kind of formality to confirm their inheritance. If elections go the wrong way, they felt, that's no problem: the generals can always stage a coup and restore us to power. Indeed the military has staged four coups since 1960.
But not this time. When the ruling Justice and Development party nominated economist Abdullah Gul as president, the military began to threaten its usual thuggery, at which point Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan shrewdly called a new election. The ruling party won a thumping majority and the secular parties were soundly beaten. Now the elected lawmakers have approved Abdullah Gul as president with 339 votes, with two other candidates sharing 83 votes. The secular sore losers boycotted the balloting, recognizing that they were completely outnumbered.
Many in the West--including some conservatives--are visibly scared by the prospect of practicing Muslims ruling Turkey according to Muslim values. Yet the "separation of church and state" they invoke does not apply anywhere in the world except in America. Israel doesn't have separation of church and state: it is a Jewish country that openly worries about protecting its Jewish identity. Britain has an established Anglican church, and virtually all European countries provide state subsidies to religious institutions, including religious schools. Why can't Turkey, a Muslim country, stand up for Muslim interests and be governed by the Muslim values of its Muslim people?
Conservatives like to use the rhetoric of democracy, but many of them have forgotten the degree to which they have become apologists for secular despotisms throughout the Muslim world. Abdullah Gul may drink soft drinks instead of alcohol and his wife may wear a headscarf. But at least the guy was freely elected. I'm sure Musharraf, Mubarak and the Saudi royal family are familar with the best types of wine and Scotch, and we know how the Saudi princes completely case aside their show of piety when they are out of sight of their people. Yet these are unelected despots who rule with an iron hand. Must traditional Muslims choose between Islamic tyranny of the Khomeini variety and secular tyranny of the Mubarak variety?
No. Turkey, like Iraq, offers a better model. This is the model of traditional Muslims who support modernization and free markets and free elections. These traditional Muslims are willing to work with America and they are fiercely opposed to Al Qaeda and to the radical Muslims. Yet at the same time they believe that traditional Muslim values that enjoy majority support sometimes should become the basis of law. I'm not Muslim and most of the readers of this blog surely aren't either. We don't support all these laws, but then Turkey is not our country. Why should America or the West dictate how the Turkish people govern themselves? Why is secular thuggery preferable to Muslim democracy?
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 5)
16. Well, Well, finally Dinesh D'Souza does it. He finally put one foot in his mouth and other one in his where sun doesn't shine. This is what happens to arm-chair bloggers. Sitting in front of the computer thinking they can feel the pulse of the world and then write a blog. When you don't know anything about how Turkey people feel why write a blog about it. Islam is a religion in the mode of ignorance and ignorant people are narrow minded and what do the narrow-minded people do. My way or the highway. Dinesh use your noodle, you don't have answer for everything, you always write you know everything and you have an opinion for everything. You don't. Today by this blog you confirmed my view. Grow up. Don't glorify religions or people whose followers sooner or later will do what their religion inspire them to do. You will not become popular by displaying your so called openness. Certain things is best left alone and let it defend or destroy itself and Islam is destroying itself and if you are going to stand next to it don't complain when they kick you from behind because you are also not a muslim.
Deva Kumar at 8:08AM on Aug 30th 2007
17. Dinesh, with all due respect, it aint going to happen. My turkish father was horrified and wouldn't even allow me to speak and cut me off. This is out of the preamble of the Turkish Constitution:
The understanding of the absolute supremacy of the will of the nation and of the fact that sovereignty is vested fully and unconditionally in the Turkish nation and that no individual or body empowered to exercise this sovereignty in the name of the nation shall deviate from liberal democracy and the legal system instituted according to its requirements.....The recognition that no protection shall be accorded to an activity contrary to Turkish national interests, the principle of the indivisibility of the existence of Turkey with its state and territory, Turkish historical and moral values or the nationalism, principles, reforms and modernism of Atatürk and that, as required by the principle of secularism, there shall be no interference whatsoever by sacred religious feelings in state affairs and politics.......
and how to change the Turkish constitution?
In Article 175, it sets out the procedure of its own revision and amendment by either referendum or a qualified majority vote of 2/3 in the National Assembly. It does not recognize the right to popular initiatives: Only the members of Parliament can propose modifications to the Constitution.
Kemal Sanli at 9:56AM on Aug 30th 2007
18. The news that a man who has been associated with the Islamist movemet, including implementing Sharia law was elected in Turkey was at first disturbing. But as I read more abour Gul, I have found that he has moderated his views and recognizes that the only way to stay in power is to appeal to the general population. One nice thing about a parliamentary system is we don't have to wait 4 years if this guy goes off the track of moderation, the system will remove him as he loses support in te government. The world is watching and I think this may be an important time in the Islamic world to show that a religious muslim can rule effectively without oppressing the people. I, for one hope this experiment works.
Joe Edgington at 10:02AM on Aug 30th 2007
19. RADICAL ISLAM IS INFECTED WITH AL QAEDA! WILL TERROR NOW INFECT TURKEY??
AL QAEDA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE!!
CHARLIE at 12:28PM on Aug 30th 2007
20. Dinesh your comments reveal that you know nothing about Turkey.
A large majority (54%) of the population did NOT vote for the islamists. You speak of thuggery, but it is not the secularists who call women on the street who don't wear the hijab whores. The secularists are not the ones who try to beat young men in the street because they have long hair. So who are you calling thugs?
While you may not believe Gul and Erdogan are dangerous Trojan horses intent on moving the country to sharia law, their followers are. And, perhaps you don't know that when the city of Ankara ran out of water this month due to the mismanagement of resources by the islamist officials running the city, people were advised to pray for rain. A new, yet still ineffective islamist policy.
Anyone who knows anything about the islamist party knows that they are receiving monetary support from the Saudis and Syria, who are only interested in destabilizing Turkey.
Also, you are gravely misinformed if you don't think the US or the EU support the islamists. They do. The US and the EU support the islamist party, just like they once supported the Taliban. Which only goes to show that the US & EU suppprt whoever fulfills their immediate needs without a thinking about the consequences. For the EU, an islamist party and movement toward sharia law will only give them the excuse they need to reject Turkey's bid to join the EU. As for the US, internal unrest in Turkey serves their interests because the US wants to divide Iraq how it sees fit without interference from the Turkish military.
Your insults directed toward the Turkish military are equally misinformed. The Turkish military originally gave the people the democracy under which they live and are the most respected institution in the country. And, it is the Turkish military that saved the country from civil war back in 1980 when extremists, both islamic and reactionary leftists, were murdering people at the rate of 25+ per day.
Due to the high threshhold (10%) needed to get into parliament, although they do not have the support of the majority of the electorate, the islamists have total control and absolute power in Turkey. Since his rise to power, Erdogan's family wealth has increased to such an extent, they're now said to be worth over $1B US. It is only a matter of time before this absolute power will show its hand in oppression and civil unrest.
While you have the right to speak and say what you will, informed speech is of value, but this ignorant drivel you've spewed forth along with the gratuitous insults is worthless.
genckemalist at 12:42PM on Aug 30th 2007
21. DD asks, "An Islamic Turkey: Why Not?"...
... because BAD things happen when the Godliest are dictating what God is saying to 'his' people...
... God is not democratic, or fair, or even-handed... God, by definition is the ultimate despot.
DD also asks, "Why is secular thuggery preferable to Muslim democracy?"
This question is soooooo loaded that it is a wonder your monitors don't keel off to the right. Surely no-one wants either secular thuggery or an (oxymoronic) Muslim democracy.(Govt. by the Mullahs is hardly govt. by the people.)
pboyfloyd at 1:57PM on Aug 30th 2007
22. When non-Muslims have equal rights in Turkey then I will cheer. Women do not have equal rights in Turkey the fields are filled with working women and the coffee houses filled with men. Men go out for a night out with the boys, most of the couples are dating or tourists.
Despite the section of Istanbul in Europe Turkey is solid Middle-Eastern with moderate(?) Islamic values.
Anne at 2:59PM on Aug 30th 2007
23. Ray Ray, TSK TSK TSK!!! I hadn't realized I had touched a nerve with you prior to last night. Who are you Ray, son, have you nothing better to do than spend your nights alone bashing others with whom you disagree, while at the same time are without knowledge, first hand, on said subject?
The 'idiocy' I referred to was inherent to Dineshs' pretense that Islamic government in Turkey would be just okey-dokey. Since you are well versed(sic) on the government and military, as well, as the 4 coups , first of which was in 1960, tell me Ray, what were the coups about?
Son, it is perfectly fine if you would like to say I am full of bullshit, due to the fact I always,always consider the source. As for YOU giving ME the benefit of the doubt, you most certainly are quite the self-absorbed little blogger, yeah?
The coups Dinesh spoke of were all left vs right except for one. The lines between left and right are blurred at this time in Turkish history. Erdogan is the PM, therefore he is the head of the government, Gul is the President, earlier I mixed up titles due to when my Lupus is hardcore the pain causes typos and, guess what, idiocy!, Gul is the Head of State, a figurehead.
As a Secular Democracy, why in the world ray-ray would you think that would aggravate me? What annoys me is when persons of your elitist ilk think that they are all knowing when in fact you know very little about a few things.
As to your most religiously educated guess on how Turkish Muslims feel about an Islamic government, you are sick wrong, son!
This government is also a government of Laicism, Turce it's 'Laiklik', the absence of religious interferencein governmeantal affairs and vice-versa. You know ray, that whacky idea of freedom of thought and religion.The kooky cats in Turkey have the audacity toactively oppose the influence of relifion, as well, as clergy.
My 'rant', you speak of rants? My you appear to be the best of'em, ray, son.
I have lived the Turkish Muslim life for almost a quarter of a decade and I know how Turks feel about their lives and goverments, you and Dinesh DO NOT. That is why I was upset. Shit, why am I 'splainin myself to an imbecile?
Turkey has been working hard to become part of the EU, do you seriously think they would endanger that?
The answer is NO. Fair-minded and rational can only be a determination of a person who has lived that life and walked in those shoes. Dinesh and yourself have, most certainly, NOT. Yes, I do get pissed when persons of inexperience in the cultural, religious, military and govermental lifestyles of countries that they've never been in, people of those countries of whom you know not a one, Cami's you've never been in ( mosques ), military persons that fought along side of Americans in Korea and Viet Nam with loyalty and ferocity and cultural and historical experiences of the Turks that you know nary a thing about.
You, son, should at the least read a book regarding the culture of the Turks and at the most understand the way Turkish people feel about their lives as they know them.
Kemla Sanli, Nasilsiniz. Cok,cok tesekkur aderim. Cogu Turk te ayni sekilde hissediyor. Gule gule.
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!!!!!!!!! 3,800 military men and women murdered. Happy yet GOP?
Peace As-Salamuy Lekim.
rhodalee at 3:30PM on Aug 30th 2007
24. It took me a while to get DD but at heart he is a religious fudimentalist. He's just not very happy lately because his type of conservative politician keeps getting in trouble in bathrooms.
Larry at 3:40PM on Aug 30th 2007
25. Anne, you are so wrong that it is beyond being wrong. My sister-in-law, Hacer, always go ou and have a few when I am in Istanbul. Women in Turkey, NOT EAST TURKEY where PKK is actively working on murdering all moderate Muslims, dress as if on Rodeo or 5th Ave. My aunt Muela Abla, Hacer, Sule, and many other women I visit when I am there are highly educated, have good paying positions with great companies, go out to wherever at whatever time they choose, have their own disposable income and are NOT treated as second class citizens.
Oh Annie, please, besides the European side of Istanbul, you have Izmir, Antalya, Bursa, Cesme and Bodrum to name a few very modern, European type cities.
If you ever want to see for yourself, email me, I have a summer home there and I'd be glad to enlighten you.
rhodalee at 3:43PM on Aug 30th 2007
26. Let's go back in time and say "Why can't we let Germany decide to elect the Nazi Party as their leaders?" Germany is a sovereign nation, it should be able to do whatever it wants within its borders and then we'll wait until their extremism permeates its borders to spend millions of lives and billions of dollars to stop it. I hope the army pulls a coup. And with an Islamic gov't, there goes Turkey's chances of joining the EU. Thank Allah for that!
charles martel at 3:47PM on Aug 30th 2007
27. Mr.Dinesh has spoken with wisdom.He has clearly reflected the majority Turkish Muslims opinion and of the Muslims of the world as well.As an American Muslim I would vote for Mr.Dinesh if he decide to run for President.I would call him a patriot and a Jimmy Carter like personality
Mir at 4:19PM on Aug 30th 2007
28. Why the fuss over what other nations choose? I would prefer to live under Muslim law than secular radical egalitarian liberal law anyday. Islam threatens the latter and this is what disturbs so many in the west.
If one believes in God one has to believe in the devil. The devil is more interested in destroying the body trough the spirt then the other way around. This explains the wests obscessive concern with physical discomforts, threats, and death while condoning and celebrating threats that destroy spirit and body in hell. The west does not want interference with its masters diablical goals. Perhaps he is stiring up Islam to destroy his ripened offspring.
The fact that this statement turns secular slit eyed skeptical heads proves my point.
Robert at 4:49PM on Aug 30th 2007
29. Islam must be destroyed. Anyone negotiating with Muslims should be aware of the Islamic principle of taquiya, or the approval of lying to infidels in order to advance the cause of Islam. That principle has been used by Muslims to adopt a peaceful attitude to deceive their non-Muslim neighbors until they gain the strength to subjugate them. Sometimes they tell the truth. Witness the Council of American Islamic Relations, an un-indicted co-conspirator in cases dealing with the funding of terror, whose founder and chairman publicly stated in 1998:
“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith but to become dominant.
The Quaran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”
This evil "religion" must be destrooyed before it destroys civilization on earth and leaves the great cities and farmlands of the West in ashes, reducing all land to dismal deserts that are seen in every Moslem dominated country on earth. Why does inhabitation by Islamicists cause vegetation to die? The increase in Moslem population may be the true cause of global warming. Islam must be destroyed.
Mary K. N. at 5:12PM on Aug 30th 2007
30. We spent 3 months in Turkey. Yes, I saw modern women in the cities and women working in the fields while husbands sat in the coffee houses. Turkish men are very forward with western women, it was not easy walking down the streets without being followed by Turkish men. It does not matter if you dress modestly they seem fascinated by American women.
Non-Muslims do NOT have religious rights in Turkey.
I felt faint when I first entered Haggia Sophia. Turkey was once all Christian, where are they now? I pray the rosary for Turkey.
We greatly enjoyed Turkey and hope to return, it is a beautiful country with great people. We need more of that great Turkish candy, Turkish Delight, and apple tea.
Anne at 5:16PM on Aug 30th 2007