The New York Times has found previously unrevealed torture memos written in the second term of George W. Bush. The men responsible are Dick Cheney and his new chief of staff, David Addington (after the last one, Scooter Libby, was arrested). The man who slavishly put into effect these atrocities was Alberto Gonzales. This pathetic man didn't even question his overlords as they got him to agree to one heinous act upon another.
Despite warnings that these interrogation tactics would result in our troops being tortured if they were ever caught, the White House pressed on. They absolutely insisted that the Justice Department write memos that said that obvious violations of the War Crimes Act be considered legal now. And they had their perfect yes-man in Gonzales who never objected and did what he was told.
And, of course, they kept all of this secret from Congress as well. If you're going to torture people, you wouldn't want to run it by Congress. Best to just run a shadow government with the permission of the Justice Department. If they really believed this was the best course of action for the country, shouldn't they have changed the laws to accommodate that idea? Didn't we used to be a country of laws where the executive branch couldn't unilaterally ignore federal laws, the Congress and the courts?
These people don't understand America. They have no idea what makes it great. Any tin pot dictator can ignore the law and authorize torture. What makes America great is that we are not ruled by men, but by laws.
The New York Times has the whole story here. We explain how all of this came about in the short video below. And as an added extra bonus, you're going to love Alberto Gonzales' only regret about going to the Justice Department, which we explain at the end:
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New York Times Has Found New Secret Torture Memos
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Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 2)
1. What are the chances that the Military courts
will overturn the convictions of the low ranking
scapegoats?
It's pretty clear that they were following the
orders of their superiors.
BOB JOHNSON at 1:32PM on Oct 4th 2007
2. I have many questions and thoughts about this. But how did these memos get to the NY Times, of all mediums? Were they in prestine condition or balled up and stuck up someone's ass to be crapped out later. This is weird. So if this was true, which may very well be, I would not be suprised at all. One could argue that torturing will bring us down to the level of the terrorist and dictators, but it may also be necessary to protect U.S. citizens. I firmly believe this administration is full of the biggest crooks in perhaps all time (stealing 1/2 trillion dollars of tax payers money) but maybe we should stop taking our freedom for granted and look how hard it is to keep it by sacraficing some of rights, like privacy and right to defend oneself in the court of law.
David McCool at 1:42PM on Oct 4th 2007
3.
Well we have known for some time that Bush and Co. have been ignoring the laws, Congress and the USA Constitution. Bush said distainfully that the constitution was just a piece of paper.
What they do is use kiss ups like Gonzales to write an obviously wrong memo saying something is legal, or does not need Congress to pass it (even though it obviously does), or the Constitution does not apply. Then they do want they want.
Plus they pass a law giving themselves immunity. Just before the election in 2006 they got one though for immunity for war crimes, so Bush and Co. are off the hook. Dems should repeal it, but they won't.
And this ignoring of the rule of law has spread. What is amnesty? It is the total disregard of the rule of law, preferring lawbreakers to lawful immigrants, preferring one racial group over all other in the USA, etc.
About 20% of the country is all for amnesty and throwing our ideals out the garbage. Of course, all lawless illegals don't even want to hear about the rule of law.
cdnbirch at 1:59PM on Oct 4th 2007
4. Assuming they don't pull the ultimate, "October Surprise" we can count on a massive number of "proactive" pardons of the criminals in the executive branch. Like father, like son. Ultimately, everyone knows that tortured people say whatever they think their torturers want to hear, just to make it stop. Voluntarily giving up the "moral high ground" is going to cost any American who ends up in the hands of our enemies. Thanks, Repigs and thanks spineless democrats.
Captain Negative at 2:43PM on Oct 4th 2007
5. Suprise Suprise, the white house denies the allegations and they refuse to hand over copies of the memos.
David McCool at 3:37PM on Oct 4th 2007
6. "Despite warnings that these interrogation tactics would result in our troops being tortured if they were ever caught, the White House pressed on."
So you really believe that the Taliban and/or Al-Queda would not torture our soldiers if we didn't get their guys naked and make them listen to loud rock music?? Ridiculous. There are arguments against "torture" that are effective, that one is just stupid.
In keeping with the importance of this being a Nation of Laws, I assume you are also for a full investigation of the CIA personnel who illegally leaked information to the NYT? Or do the ends justify the means when you want them to?
Mel at 4:00PM on Oct 4th 2007
7. The New York Times: All the lies that are fit to print.
But seriously, the U.S. should never torture members of the military of a sovereign state, or even an organized group trying to overthrow a government. They should be afforded all of the protections required by the Geneva Convention.
On the other hand, al-Quida isn't an organized group that differentiates between officers and enlisted persons. They do not fight on behalf of a specific country, nor do they have the overthrow of a specific government as their goal.
Under this definition, even the Viet Cong or the French Resistance deserved protection under the Geneva Convention.
Members of al-Qiada certainly can't be considered civilians, because they are taking part in hostilities. So, they don't deserve the kind of treatment that Japan didn't afford U.S. civilians held at Santo Tomas College in Manilla during WWII.
I'm not suggesting bamboo manicures, but terrorists don't deserve the treatment that we afforded members of the German military during WWII.
Kent at 4:06PM on Oct 4th 2007
8. Did they get them from Dan Rather ?
socal4patrick at 4:33PM on Oct 4th 2007
9. I hope to goodness they use these techniques combined with a 'whine time' speech by Harry Reid
That should be enough....Oh but wait!
TED KENNEDY SHOULD WEIGH IN WITH HIS EXPERT COMMENTARY ON CHAPPAQUIDICK WATERBOARDING TECHNIQUES!
dano at 8:19PM on Oct 4th 2007
10. I have seen that particular point throughout other news media blogs, 'If we didn't torture the prisoners in barbarous manners, 'anything short of organ failure or death', that they would still torture, maim and murder our military prisoners and hostages in their barbaric manner times ten. This does not justify the USA behaving in a manner denying the Geneva Convention Code. We are supposedly a civilized nation, although under the Bush/Cheney dictatorship who knows, and to behave in a manner befitting our so-called enemy does not qualify torture of that degree.
A man, a great man to many said on March 1, 1924 " the religion of Islam will be elevated if it will cease to be a political instrument, as had been the case, in the past " Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, a Muslim.
If more countries in the Middle East would adhere to these type of beliefs, Islamic States would not exist. By behaving ethically and in a civilized manner he changed an entire country.
We as a nation have a leader who feels he has the right to do whatever the hell he pleases, screw congress, screw everyone. We used to be a respected nation with many a great leader, we certainly got the short end of the stick this time. He has run rough trodden over our nation and 3/4 of the world.
We no longer have the respect of any nation.
Shameful.. I am glad I am not to blame for this person being prez....
rhodalee at 10:08PM on Oct 4th 2007
11. "ONCE AGAIN!" THE YOUNG "TURK-EYS USE THE BIASED
AND DISGRACED "NEW YORK TIMES" FOR INFORMATION!
THE "AMERICAN?" NEWSPAPER THAT GIVES "DISCOUNTS!"
TO ULTRA LIBERAL MOVEON.ORG TO BACK STAB OUR OWN
MILITARY, DONT WORRY ABOUT THE ENEMYS WITHOUT BUT
"WATCH" THE ENEMYS "WITHIN"!
MEL at 12:28AM on Oct 5th 2007
12. From: David McCool at 1:42PM on Oct 4th 2007
I firmly believe this administration is full of the biggest crooks in perhaps all time (stealing 1/2 trillion dollars of tax payers money) but maybe we should stop taking our freedom for granted and look how hard it is to keep it by sacraficing some of rights, like privacy and right to defend oneself in the court of law.
V -Then we might as well run up the white flag of surrender now.
When Americans start talking like this, the bad guys have already won.
Ventrue at 12:37AM on Oct 5th 2007
13. The U.S. cannot allow itself to condone torture. Its a democrat vs. republican thing either, people from both sides oppose it. It is wrong and is proven to not work. It does absolutely nothing but hurt the U.S.'s standing in the world's view. I hope Congress gets to the bottom of this and puts an immediate stop to this illegal and horrific act.
for political commentary, visit:
http://www.politidose.com/
Patrick at 7:29AM on Oct 5th 2007
14. ***^its not a democrat vs. Republican thing
for political commentary, visit:
http://www.politidose.com/
Patrick at 7:30AM on Oct 5th 2007
15. Ah yes !
When one is caught in the middle of a knife,
he must "take the high ground" and always
adhere to the Marquess Of Queensberry Rules.
Right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JZeeee at 11:51AM on Oct 5th 2007