On Larry King last night, mega-church preacher Joel Osteen and his wife Victoria, Jim and Tammy 2.0, offered beaming advice about how to have it all with God's help. We were sort of shocked by the exchange about undergarments, in which Osteen said women shouldn't dress up for work or the outside world, but for their husbands; translation: they should wear sexy underwear. An excerpt from the transcript:
Larry King: Is this -- is this true, that you once exhorted women in the audience to shop at Victoria's Secret to help their marriage?
J. OSTEEN: Oh, well, that was -- that's probably true. I think the whole...
KING: That's why you're smiling all the time.
J. OSTEEN: OK. OK. I hope it was in a good context, though. I mean, I wasn't -- it's too much to explain now, but yes I did.
V. OSTEEN: Yes, he was encouraging women. He was encouraging women to take careful [care of?] themselves.
J. OSTEEN: Yes.
V. OSTEEN: And to not go around in their old, you know, bathrobes, and that they could add that spark to their home. And I think that was great.
KING: What's wrong with that?
J. OSTEEN: No, there's nothing. And that was my point, don't go look good and dress up to go to work and dress up to go to event[s?] for everybody else. Dress up for your own husband. I mean, look good at home.
Of course, we think you should dress up for your spouse, but the implication here seems to be that women's role in the outside world isn't that important ,and also that it's up to women to keep the spark alive.
Why isn't Osteen telling husbands to go to Calvin Klein?
Click on the image below to watch the Osteen interview.
Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 23)
46. This is for all of the people on here judging
Joel and Victoria Osteen harshly...
Why are you casting stones?
Are you perfect? Do you really
know Joel and Victoria Osteen personally? If not, and if you haven't walked in their shoes, how in the world can you really know what is in their hearts? Has this man and woman harmed you in any way?
A word of caution to you....Be careful in judging others - unless you wish to be judged accordingly!
If Joel Osteen hasn't personally harmed you in any way, then keep your mud slinging to yourself. Nobody wants to hear you- the naysayers- flap your jaws!
Christians can be the most judgmental of all...this is why the church is a hospital for sinners and not a museum for saints!
Ibelieve at 11:07PM on Oct 17th 2007
47. For those outthere who don't like things about Joel grow up, learn to take the good. If something is not good for you don't take it, just don't throw your dirt on those you just want to make things better for others. Remember even Jesus had those to say bad agaisnt him. When is this going to stop?
nellie at 11:28PM on Oct 17th 2007
48. On the one hand, Rev. Osteen is right. Something small and lacy from VS is far more appealing than a beat up, oversized t-shirt, even if it has the husband's alma mater silkscreen on the front.
On the other hand, not dressing up for work or special events is very bad advice. I notice that Rev. Osteen wears very nice suits and power ties when he preaches. (On a side note, if he wore a black robe with either a clergy stole in the season's color or an academic hood from his seminary, he could save a lot money on his wardrobe.)
Women have to dress just as nicely as men to succeed in the business world. If a woman is an attorney and routinely appears for court calls against men wearing suits from Brooks Brothers, Hickey-Freeman, Hugo Boss, or Armani, she can't show up in court wearing outfits from Kohl's.
She's going to need a wardrobe from the likes of Talbot's, Evan-Picone, Brooks Brothers, or Ralph Lauren.
Kent at 12:22AM on Oct 18th 2007
49. Your all crazy. This is such hypocrisy. Maybe he should wear some of Voctoria's secrets. What a joke.
Marco at 12:24AM on Oct 18th 2007
50. AMEN, Lisa! Might I also add that that "sexy" Victoria's Secret lingerie is incredibly uncomfortable. I can't concentrate at work for 10 hours a day itching and scratching "down there," and I seriously doubt that my husband would find my constant wedgie-picking appealing. Give men a lacy thong to wear all day, and they'll surely rethink their position! Nice comfy granny-panties for me, thank you very much... I can always take them off in the bedroom!
L.M. at 12:30AM on Oct 18th 2007
51. I pray too. I pray that the Joel Osteens and Richard Robertses and all the
televangelists out there will shut up. It's all about money for them.I live in Oklahoma,the buckle of the Bible belt and I am surrounded by Bible thumping hypocrites. Yes I am a Christian. I am a member of the oldest Christian Church there is,and I know b.s. when I hear it.
amy at 12:53AM on Oct 18th 2007
52. Osteen's constant smile to me seems so phony, being forced and put on, like some beauty pageant contestant's ... He really makes me feel uneasy - I don't see why he apparently has such appeal to the masses ...
I also wouldn't be surprised if it comes out in a few years he's a closet queen or some such, like that senator from Idaho ..
AttyDallas at 1:24AM on Oct 18th 2007
53. I HAVE NEVER READ ANY VERSION OF THE BIBLE THAT STATES THAT CHRISTIAN CANNOT BE PASSIONATE, HAVE DESIRE, LOVE SEX; JUST STATES CONSEQUENCES OF OUR OWN BEHAVIOR, NOT GOD'S ANY WOMAN WHO BELIEVES THAT SHE IS SUBMISSIVE, DOESN'T KNOW MEN. GO TO YOU GYNECOLOGIST AND HAVE HIM GIVE YOU A SHOT OF TESTOSTERONE AND YOU WILL QUESTION HOW ANY MALE EVER GOT OUT OF SIXTH GRADE! A MAN IS STATING WHAT HE LIKES AND PROBABLY MORE ALIKE THAN DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHERS. THERE ARE REASON BEHIND GOD'S DESIGN; HE, ASSURED PROCREATION WOULD CONTINUE WHETHER BEING SHOT AT, TIRED, DEPRESSED, OR JUST GOT HOME FROM A FUNERAL. A HOME IS SUPPOSED TO BE A REPRIEVE FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MALE OR FEMALE, HOWEVER ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THAT MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL, ARE COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES AND I INVITE THEM TO WATCH A BULL KNOCK DOWN THREE FENCES, DIG A 6 FT. CIRCUMFERENCE THREE FT. DEEP, TRYING TO GET TO A HEIFER. IF ANYONE IN THE READING AUDIENCE DOESN'T THINK THERE ISN'T ANY DIFFERENCE PHYSIOLOGICALLY, THEN GIVE A DANCE FOR ALL MALES AND SEE HOW MANY SHOW UP? I HAD HOPED THAT THE LAST CHAPTER ON "THE GREATEST GENERATION" MIGHT NEED ANOTHER PRINTING DUE TO AMENDING, NO CHANCE! WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS, OVER 50% OF FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN HAVE ONLY ONE PARENT, WOMEN STILL MAKE ONLY 63% OF WHAT MALES DO WITH EXACT SAME EDUCATION, SO IT APPEARS TO ME THAT WOMEN ARE THE "NEW POOR". NOT ONCE, HAVE I EVER BELIEVED THAT BEING A WOMAN KEPT ME FROM BEING ANYTHING I WANTED TO BE AND BEING A GREAT MOTHER AND HOMEMAKER IS THE JOB, NOT THE PLACE THAT IS PAYING YOU $80,000 RE SALARY. A HOME IS SUPPOSED TO BE A REFUGE FOR A FAMILY FROM THE OUTSIDE WORLD, WHERE ALL CAN RELAX, ETC. ALL HELEN GURLEY BROWN AND STEINHAM DID FOR WOMEN IS TO GIVE THEM TWO JOBS, INSTEAD OF ONE. WHEN MARRIED, MAKING DECISIONS TO HAVE CHILDREN, ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD IGNORE THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE TIMES WHEN A CHILD IS ILL, USUALLY WANTS THEIR MOTHER WHEN SMALL AND MOTHERS ARE NORMALLY THE PARENT WHO TAKES OFF, DUE TO THE FACT THAT WOMEN MAKES LESS, HAVE LESS TENURE, WHEREAS ONCE A MAN HAS A FAMILY, BEGINS TO WORK, OUR SOCIETY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH COMPASSION WHETHER HE IS SICK,DISABLED, ETC. FURTHERMORE, OUR SOCIAL SERVICES ARE NOT SET UP FOR PROVIDING WICK, TANIF, FORMULA TO MEN, SO I DOUBT MANY OF THEM EVER ENTERTAIN THE THOUGHT THAT THEY CAN QUIT, TAKE OFF, UNTIL RETIREMENT, WHEREAS WOMEN DO. THERE ISN'T A THING WRONG WITH VICTORIA'S SECRET; I NEVER GOT THE CHANCE TO KEEP ON ANYTHING LONG ENOUGH TO JUSTIFY EVEN PURCHASING, BEEN IN MY LINGERIE, UNTOUCHED FOR GOD ONLY KNOWS HOW LONG. WHEN I READ DEAR ABBY, WITH SOME WOMAN COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT ENOUGH ATTENTION AND SEX; ONE REASON IS BECAUSE MEN ARE OVERSATURATED WITH WITH NAKED. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO INTRIGUE, ALL BECOMES COMMON. MY GRANDPA OWNED SEVERAL BUSINESSES AND I RECALL A WOMAN WALKING INTO THE STORE WITH SHORT SHORTS ON WHEN WOMEN DIDN'T REALLY WEAR; HE SHOOK HIS HEAD AND SAID, "THAT DOESN'T DO A THING FOR ME, BUT LET AN 80 YR. OLD WOMAN STEP OFF A CURB WITH A LITTLE SLIP WITH LACE SHOWING AND THAT DOES IT!! PRAISE THE LORD I GOT A NORMAL MAN WHO NEVER NEEDED PROPS, INSPIRATION, A TAP DANCE, ETC. PUT A CAN OF COMET IN YOUR HAND AND LEAN OVER THE TUB IN AN OLD WORN OUT GOWN AND HE WILL SHOW UP EVERY SINGLE TIME.
I HAVE LISTENED TO JOEL O. AND ALL HE PREACHES IS POSITIVE AND IF ANYONE BELIEVES THAT NEGATIVE PRODUCES ANYTHING, I GUESS THEY WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE OR BEEN. WHEN A PERSON HAS NO HOPE, FAITH, THEY HAVE NOTHING. JUST THROUGH IN THE TOWEL AND QUIT. NOTHING THAT JOEL PREACHES SHOULD OFFEND ANYONE; AFTER ALL THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD HAS GOING ON, DECISIONS BEING MADE IN OUR GOVERNMENT, WE NEED SOMEONE TO INSPIRE US TO GET UP AND BELIEVE WE CAN DO AND HAVE AN AFFECT IN OUR LIVES AND IN OUR COUNTRY. WE HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED TO THINK THAT NOTHING WE DO CAN CHANGE A SINGLE THING AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS ....BRAINWASHING...ANYONE EVER HEARD OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT, MARTIN LUTHER KING, MARTIN LUTHER KING, THE @ 50 SURVIVORS OF THE MAYFLOWER, OR READ THE BOOK ENDURANCE. I WAS BLESSED AND DREW THE SHORT STRAW RE PARENTS WHO WERE MATURE, WEREN'T TRYING TO FIND THEMSELVES, HAD TEN GRANDPARENTS, ONLY GIRL IN THIRTY- THREE YEARS, AT LEAST TWENTY GREAT AUNTS AND UNCLES AND THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE THEIR SPOUSE'S. I WAS REARED AROUND ALPHA MALES. WOMEN WHO DIDN'T ARMPIT, KNEW WHAT THEIR JOBS WERE, AND IN ORDER TO EAT AND SURVIVE, UNTIL AFTER WWII, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO SIT AROUND AND DELEGATE OR ARGUE ABOUT. WHEN ANYONE PUTS THE "I" IN ANYTHING AND COMPLAINS, THEY USUALLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TO DO. I HAVE LIVED ON A BUDGET AND COULD HAVE ASKED FOR ANYTHING I WANTED, BUT DIDN'T AND I HAVE HAD MILLIONS AND ABOUT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IT MAKES RE REAL PROBLEMS, I ZERO; IT DOESN'T FIX LEUKEMIA, CANCER, DRUG ADDICTION, ALCOHOLISM; ABOUT ALL IT DOES IS ALLOW YOU TO KEEP YOUR TEETH, IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE SOMEONE WHO NEEDS SOME. YOU MAY HAVE THOUGHT YOU WERE IN CONTROL, OR HAVE TOTALLY TURNED YOUR LIFE OVER TO THE LORD; LIVE LONG ENOUGH AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT SAFETY NET THAT YOU BELIEVE IS ALWAYS THERE, ISN'T AND YOU WILL AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU COMPREHEND WHAT JOEL IS ATTEMPTING TO PREACH. WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GIRL, I WAS NOT AFRAID AND DIDN'T WORRY ABOUT DEATH, BUT LOVED EVERY SECOND OF LIVING SO MUCH, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE. I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THIS IS NOT ALL THERE IS; HAVE A LIFE DEATH PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I.E. IN A FOXHOLE AND YOU WON'T BELIEVE IN LUCKY, COINCIDENCE EVER AGAIN! EVERYONE MADE FUN OF TAMMY F. BAKER, HOWEVER I THINK SHE NEVER STOPPED BELIEVING, QUIT, OR LET THE NEGATIVE PULL HER DOWN AND IN THE END, I THINK SHE WAS AN INSPIRATION. WHO, HAS DONE BETTER, THOSE WHO OWNED ENRON? I DON'T SEE ANY OF THEM LEADING A PRAYER MEETING OR HELPING CLEAN UP THE DAMAGE DONE TO THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES. SOME PEOPLE HAVE PRESENCE AND THEY CAN STAND ON A STREET CORNER IN A GUNNY SACK AND THERE WILL BE A CROWN SHORTYLY THEREAFTER. I GUESS ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT ATTEND JOEL'S SERVICES, ARE IDIOTS; THAT TYPE OF THINKING USUALLY COMES FROM ARROGANCE. AS IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS, DRUGS, RESISTANT STRAINS OF VD, MORE PREGNANCY THAN EVER IN HISTORY, YET BIRTH CONTROL IN THE GROCERY STORE, DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS, CANNOT EVEN GO TO SCHOOL AND FEEL SAFE, A WAR WITH NO REAL MILLITARY, IQ DROPPING AND HAVE MORE COMPUTERS, TEACHERS, TIME, THAN EVER IN HISTORY. JUST REMEMBER EINSTEIN DID ALL THAT HE DID, INCLUDING INVENTING THE MATH FOR, WITH NO INDOOR PLUNBING, NO AIR CONDITIONING, NO COMPUTER, NO ELECTRIC LIGHT, JUST A BIG CHIEF TABLET AND A PENCIL THAT HE SHARPENED WITH A POCKET KNIFE. WE , HAVE CERTAINLY COME A LONG WAY. MAYBE, SOME TELEVISION ANCHORMEN SHOULD ATTEND THE CHURCH JOEL PREACHES AT AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW HE DRAWS SO MANY PEOPLE; MAYBE ALL WOULD BECOME A LITTLE MORE INTERESTED IN STATE THIS NATION IS IN AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT JOEL IS SAYING RE VICTORIA'S SECRET; IF IT MAKES YOU OR YOUR HUSBAND HAPPY, FINE; GO WORRY ABOUT SOME TEACHER HAVING SEX WITH A TWELVE YR. OLD STUDENT, OR HOW THIS PROBLEM TO ASSURE SAFETY IN OUR LOWER SCHOOLS CAN BE SOLVED. SURELY, NOBODY HAS LOST A SECOND OF SLEEP WORRYING ABOUT WHAT JOEL'S WIFE IS WEARING OR HIM, EITHER; HOW DOES STARK NEKKED HIT YOU? JUST SOUNDS MORE FUN THAT NAKED, DOESN'T IT. DRESSED FOR BED; HOW ABOUT JUST CLEAN AND SOME GOOD OLD BAY RUM AND A WOMAN WHO SMELLS LIKE WOMEN USE TO SMELL! WHY, DO PEOPLE WASTE TIME TRYING TO RATIONALIZE LOVE, SEX FEELING; THEY AREN'T RATIONAL, INTENDED I THINK, TO BE A RESPONSE, LIKE BREATHING, ETC. GO BACK AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO IN HISTORY AND I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT WITHOUT SELF-HELP BOOKS,SOMEHOW THEY GOT IT RIGHT!!JOEL SHOULD BE WRITING ON THIS AND WE SHOULD READ AND BELIEVE, IT IS NOT A FAIRY TALE!
SANDRAKINGBEALL at 7:45AM on Oct 18th 2007
54. While you all think Mr. Olstein is a preacher or "minister" doesn't automatically qualify him as a genuine born again Christian. He came to be in this popular "seeker friendly", feel good religion that attracts the people in droves. Anyone who picks out only the positive messages out of the Bible to live by and teach to others will win over those who only want to feel good about themselves and their lifestyle with no or little intention to deal with their sinful state before a righteous God. If Olstein won't deal with and teach the Bible as a WHOLE than he is deceiving the multitude(2Peter 2:1-4,18,19). ALL Scriptue is God-breathed and is where we find Truth--apart from what we WANT to make it in our own minds for our own purposes(2Peter 1:20-21). This, my friend, is pure idolotry (making God in our own image). Recall in Scripture when Jesus said to those who "served" Him casting out demons, healing, etc.,"Away from me you evil doers, I never knew you."
My question is, and Christians with discernment should be--(more important than his great attitude),does Olstein truly "know" Christ as his personal Lord and Savior? Do you EVER hear his messages clearly teach that "apart form Christ, you can do NOTHING"....NOT, "anything YOU set your mind to, YOU can do". What about setting your mind to do GOD'S will AND be willing/happy to SUFFER as a consequence? By the way, is the term "suffer" even in Olstein's vocabulary? Does he ever encourage his listeners to "take up their cross","count it all JOY when you fall into various trials" and so many other Scriptures teaching that life as a Christian is not meant to be painless and trouble-free? In fact quite the opposite if we are to be "Christ-like". He is our perfect example of suffering for the sake of the Gospel. Read 1Peter 4:1-2,12-19. Paul, Jesus' apostle was an example of using his weaknesses/suffering as a demonstration of God's POWER in him..."My grace is sufficient for you"..."for when I am weak, I am strong". Paul boasted in his weakness and proved that this was when he was the stongest and the most effective tool in God's hands.
WHERE in God's Word are we instructed over and over with a "be/act positive" message in order to be in God's will or be useful to Him and HIS Kingdom?
The BIBLICAL fact is that without the Spirit's indwelling, we have NO power in our flesh at NO time--it is corrupt,dead and decietful to the core from day one ["there is NO ONE that is good, no not one"]. Jesus came to replace our flesh, not restore it. Even as Believers, our works are only "filthy rags" before Him when done in our flesh or as Olstein whould have...with a positive attitude as if that is all God cares about. He gives us all the instruction we need for a "positive attitude" and that is the fruit of the Spirit which we still can't live by apart from His Holy Spirit enabling us! Besides this, Scripture instucts us to put on the full armor of God to defeat the enemy on a daily basis since we are in a Spiritual BATTLE that we can't fight in the flesh--positive or not. Are these concepts too negative for ya? Doesn't quite make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? See also, 1Peter 5:8-11.
If we claim to be "Christians" and practice dying to self daily, than it is ONLY by the filling of His Spirit do we have any "good" or "positive" influence in us and THAT is only "good" or usefull if used for HIS GLORY, not our own! It is not OUR ablility, but our availablity to God to do HIS work in and thru us. We are called to empty ourselves, be a servant to all, clothed with humility, be last not first, weep over our sins and always acknowledge our worthlessness apart from the finished work of Christ.
Linda at 5:54AM on Oct 18th 2007
55. Hey Nicki, #15 comment: You state that sUSAN needs to read her Bible because God doesn't want women to be submissive. You may want to refer to Ephesians 5:22-24 "wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the church;." "...so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything". Ephesians 5:25 - 33 will also explain how husbands are to love their wives.
sUSAN
Jamie at 6:51AM on Oct 18th 2007
56. Sorry, I misspelled his name...Osteen...not Olstein.
Linda at 5:59AM on Oct 18th 2007
57. Nicki #15 comment - You stated that Pastor Olsteen "wants his women to be submissive and God doesn't intend for women to be submissive, telling sUSAN to read her Bible. If you will refer to Ephesians 5:22-25..."Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church;"..."so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything". Then in vs.25-33, it explains how husbands are to be to their wives. It appears to me that sUSAN has read her Bible. I pray you do the same...so you will know all truth.
Jamie at 6:53AM on Oct 18th 2007
58. Osteen is like Richard Roberts...If it wasn't for their famous Fathers, you would have never heard of them.
Scotty at 6:52AM on Oct 18th 2007
59. WHEN DID SEX OR SEXY, TAKE THE PLACE OF "MAKING LOVE? I HAVE NEW FOR ALL; ONLY GOD KNOWS WHAT IS IN OUR SOUL, OUR HEARTS AND ONLY HE DETEREMINES IF MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES RE SIN! YOU CANNOT WORK YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN AS YOU ARE A SINNER BY VIRTUE OF YOUR ADAM AND EVE. JOEL O. IS NOT IGNORING CONSEQUENCE, SIN, ETC. HE, IS TELLING YOU HOW TO GET THRROUGH IT! I HAVE NEVER HEARD HIM SAY THAT BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN, OR BEING A CHRISTIAN MAKES ONE BENIGN TO. I LIVED IN CHURCH AND WAS ALLOWED TO DATE IN OTHER RELIGIONS, ETC. THE EXPLANATION RE SALVATION AND THE PURPOSE OF RE EXPLAINING IS ENOUGH TO ABSOLUTELY MAKE A PERSON WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT RELIGION, TURN AND RUN! THERE IS NOTHING THAT STATES THAT PASTOR, CHURCHES, HAVE TO BE POOR. HAS ANYONE PERSONALLY SEEN A FINANCIAL STATEMENT? WHO, WOULD BE STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THAT BY VIRTUE OF RELIGION, COLOR, WEALTH, EXEMPTED ONE FROM JUST THE DAILY RIGORS OF LIVING! HOWEVER, ONE THING BEING A CHRISTIAN DOES IF YOU PRACTICE AND BELIEVE IN, YOU DON'T HAVE THE REGRETS THAT MANY PEOPLE LIVE WITH AFTER SOMEONE THEY LOVED DIES. REGRET, IS ABOUT THE WORST THING ANYONE CAN HAVE AND YOU CAN'T FIX IT; IT IS TOO LATE! GOD, DEALTH WITH MAN AND SIN ON A PERSONAL BASIS BEFORE CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED, REMEMBER MOSES? HE CREATED US OUT OF LOVE THE SAME AS WE HOPEFULLY DO OUR OWN CHILDREN; HE GAVE US HOW MANY CHANCES TO FOLLOW WHAT HE SET FORTH AND DIDN'T HE SAY THAT HE WOULD NEVER DESTOYAGAIN AS HE DID RE NOAH? AN ANALOGY; HOW DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD REACT, FEEL, IF YOUR CHILD WAS NAILED TO A CROSS AND WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU EVER TRUST AND BELIEVE IN THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR? VERY SIMPLE, FOR OUR SINS, THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD, IS BELIEF THAT JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS! ALL,AFTER CHRIST CRUCIFIED IS BASED ON FAITH, NOT TANGIBLE RELAIONSHIP WITH GOD. WE CAN'T SEE THE WIND, HOWEVER IT IS THERE AND WE CAN SEE WHAT IT DOES. HIS SON, DIED IN OUR PLACE AND FOR US TO BE GIVEN THAT LAST CHANCE, MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCE, GOD GAVE US ONE LAST SHOT, WEW MUST BELIEVE THAT HIS SON DIED ON THE CROSS FOR US. THERE IS A GRAVE MARKER RE A SOLDIER, WHO STEPPED FORWARD IN THE CIVIL WAR AND ASKED IF HE COULD DIE IN HIS OFFICER'S PLACE AND HE WAS ALLOWED TO. PERSONALLY, I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE PAIN, SUFFERING IN THEIR LIFETIME, JOEL O. ISN'T PREACHING THAT! IT IS TOO BAD THAT WE DON'T HOLD OUR PRESIDENTS, ETC. TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS TRYING TO DO TO OSTEEN. I HEARD SOMEONE SAY, "HEY, IF I COULD BE PRESIDENT AND HAVE SEX IN THE OVAL OFFICE, REMAIN THERE, FINE WITH ME!
MUST BE, AND TALK ABOUT MONEY, ASK THE TAXPAYERS TO PAY MILLIONS IN HIS ATTORNEYS FEES. I DON'T THINK THAT FALLS IN THE SAME CATEGORY OF APPOINTING AN ATTORNEY FOR SOMEONE WHO CANNOT AFFORD REPRESENTATION. BEFORE WE GET CARRIED AWAY WITH JOEL OSTEEN, ALL BETTER LOOK UP AND TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT THE SHAPE THIS COUNTRY IS IN. WASN'T IT PATTON THAT TOLD US WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? HE WAS COCKY, BUT HE WAS RIGHT. WE HAVE LAWS RE TO FORUM FOR SPEAKING WITH OUR FOES AND FRIENDS AND IT AIN'T COLUMBIA! MAKING ANOTHER IMMIGRATION LAW, WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT THAN MAKING ANOTHER MIRANDA ACT. THERE IS LAW ALREADY IN PLACE. STATES, COUNTIES, TOWNS, CANNOT SUPERCED FEDERAL LAW WHEN IN PLACE, ALSO, WHETHER FEDERAL FUNDS INVOLVED OR NOT, EEO LAW IS A FEDERAL LAW THT APPLIES TO ALL. ALL, AMENDED SINCE PASSED IN 1964. IF LAW NEED AMENDING, THEN GET ER DONE, BUT YOU CANNOT JUST WRITE OVER THE CONSTITUTION OR THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, ETC. SHOULDN'T BE CHANGING OR REWRITING HISTORY, EITHER. ANYONE WATCHED BURN'S DOCUMENTARY RE WWII EVERY BATTLE? I WAS IN TOTAL AWE; GIVE A PERSONAL TOUCH TO "GIVE ME LIBERTY OR DEAH" OF "FREEDOM'S JUST ANOTHER WORD, FOR NOTHING LEFT TO ...! REST ASSURED ANOTHER D DAY COULD NEVER BE COORDINATED AND PULLED OFF AS WE TELL THE ENTIRE WORLD WHERE WERE ARE GOING TO BE IN ADVANCE. THOSE MEN, DIDN'T NEED STEROIDS; LAST OF THE REAL HARDENED STRONG, DUE TO HARD WORK, ANY OF US WILL EVER SEE, ALSO, YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU ARE DOING, SAME AS HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS. GOD LOVED US SO MUCH THAT HE GAVE US THAT ONE LAST CHANCE TO RECEEM OUSELVES AND HE DIDN'T MAKE IT EASY AND TANGIBLE AS PRIOR.
ALL THIS TALK ABOUT MONEY; THESE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A THING, OR GO, UNLIKE THE IRS; YOU THINK THE TAX STRUCTURE IS FAIR, FOUR LOBBYIST PER SENATOR OR CONGRESSMAN. AKIN TO ALLOWING A PEDOPHILE STAY SCHOOL PROPERTY. I RECALL WE HAVE FREEDOOM OF RELIGION, HOWEVER I DON'T REMEMBER BRIBES, TAKING JOBS AFTER SUPPOSEDLY SERVING CONSTITUENTS PAYING 5M A YR. WITH ALL THE GLITZ.
INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT JOEL OSTEEN AND HIS WIFE AND HIS APPROVAL OR ANYONE ELSE'S OF YOUR UNDERWEAR, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES...UNIONS GONE, MIMIMUM WAGE A BIG DEAL, ALL INDUSTRY VIRTUALLY GONE, AND I WONDER IF ANYONE EVER THINKS ABOUT THE PICKET LINES, WHAT OTHERS WENT THROUGH TO JUST ENSURE A LIVING WAGE. I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT EVERY MAN, WOMAN, ETC. DESERVES A DECENT LIVING WAGE AND WE NEED GARBAGE MEN, PLUMBERS, ETC. AND THEY CAN'T VOTE THEMSELVES A RAISE AS CONGRESS DOES. INSTEAD OF CONCERNING OURSELVES WITH COLLECTION PLACE AT CHURCH OSTEEN PREACHES AT, DOESN'T IT SEEM A LITTLE FRIVOLOUS THAT IT TAKES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO JUST RUN FOR PRESIDENT? EVEN SAM WALTON DIDN'T LLIVE INA 25,000,000 S.F. HOME AND GET A $400 HAIRCUT!!! SOMEHOW, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WHO COULD LIVE IN LUXURY COULD POSSIBLY RELATE TO THE POOR, DISABLED, AFFLICTED. RE THE QUESTION THAT APPLIES TO WHY JOEL OSTEEN WASN'T TOLD TO WEAR, SHOP? I HAVE YET, TO MEET A MAN WHO LIKES TO SHOP, AND SECOND, IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT, MENS' FASHIONS DO NOT CHANGE THE WAY WOMENS' DO AND MEN WILL NOT BUY THINGS THAT ARE SUB STANDARD, BUT OVER THE TOP RE PRICE. A MAN EXPECTS A PAIR OF SHOES OR BOOTS TO LAST, NOT WOMEN, JUSTC CHANGE THE COLOR, THE HEEL HEIGHT, TOE, NEXT SEASON, OUT OF STYLE ANYWAY. MEN, WILL WALK INTO A STORE, GO RIGHT TO WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR, PAY AND LEAVE. MEN HAVE TUNNEL VISION, WOMEN SEE THINGS WIDESPREAD. THAT IS WHY MEN CAN PUT TOGETHER A SWING SET, AND YET CAN'T FIND THE PEPPER, SCRAMBLE EGGS, NURSE A BABY , PUT A LOAD OF LAUNDRY ON, PUT ON HEELS WITH ONE HAND/ JPWEVER. OT SERVES TJE, WE;; OM WAR. PR WJERE STRENGTH IS NEEDED; YOU DON'T SEE A BUCK COME OUT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD EVEN IN A DROUGHT, ONLY THE DOES. IT IS THIS SIMPLE RE SUBMISSIVE, WHEN MEANS BOW DOWN TO, OR LESS; IN ALL SPECIES THE STRONG PREVAIL, SO IF A WOMAN THINKS THAT SHE CAN GET OUT AND COMPETE WITH A MAN 6FT 8IN. LIKE MY DAD AND GREAT GRANDFATHER, MORE POWER TO YOU; GET YOUR AX, START SLEDDING THOSE LOGS OUT OF THE WOODS AT 106DEGRESS WITH 80 PERCENT HUMIDITY. THANK YOU, I WILL SUBMIT, BE GLAD TO STAY IN THE HOUSE, ROCK THE BABIES, ETC. BEFORE I JOIN THE MILITARY, HAVE TO HIT THE DIRT, I WOULD HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO URINATE STANDING UP AND RUNNING AND HAVE A BREAST REDUCTION, OR KILL MYSELF! WOULD I WANT A WOMAN IN THE FOXHOLE WITH ME. NO, NOT AFTER HAVING A FATHER AND A HUSBAND THAT COLD HOLD ME ON THE PALM OF THEIR HAND AND PICK ME STAIGHT UP OFF THE GROUND IN HEELS, AL 5FT 3AND 1/2INCHES AND KISS ME. ALL I WOULD BE IS DEAD WT. FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE TO WAIT ON AND MEN TEND TO BE VERY PROTECTIVE IF YOU LET THEM, GET SOME ONE KILLED. DON'T JUMP IN THERE AND INTERPRET YOUR WAY; IF A WOMAN WANTS TO DO, GO FOR! JOEL, I HOPE YOU HAVE LEARNED YOUR LESSON RE AGREEING TO AN INTERVIEW. YOU WON'T LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO UNDO ALL OF THE DAMAGE, DISPARAGEMENT OF YOU CHARACTER. IMPLYING COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET LATER, ISN'T NECESSARY. ALL IT TAKES IS ONE WORD OF WRONGFUL GOSSIP, TO DESTROY EVERYTHING A PERSON HAD STOOD FOR. A LITTLE SMILEY IS ONE THING, COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET SOMETHING ELSE!I HOPE WHEN I TURN ON THIS THING NEXT WEEK ALL IS VAPORIZED.
SANDRAKINGBEALL at 7:47AM on Oct 18th 2007
60. "Pastor Joel is one of the best preacher in our times." While I agree that Joel seems to be a rather nice fella, and spreads a "nice" message, he is no preacher. His sermons are basically fluff. He's preaching what the masses want to hear; don't dare tell anyone they're doing something wrong or that they should have some morals, just tell them to think positive thoughts and everything will be A-OK.
I'm glad I'm not the only person that realizes this. Joel is deceiving a lot of people.
BTW, yes, wives are supposed to submit to their husbands. And there is nothing wrong with wearing sexy underwear for your husband, why even debate it?
D Nestor at 8:58AM on Oct 18th 2007