Is religion the problem? This was the topic of my debate with America's leading atheist Christopher Hitchens before a packed house of a thousand people at the Ethical Culture Society auditorium in New York city. Hitchens is the author of God Is Not Great and I am the author of the new book What's So Great About Christianity. Unfortunately the organizers had to turn more than a hundred people away. It was a ferocious and lively debate, which also had its light moments, and many people on both sides said afterward that it was the best God v. atheism debate that has so far been held.
The current crop of atheists -- Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Steven Pinker -- are mainly Darwinians who don't believe in God because they regard evolution as providing a sufficient accounting for life. Hitchens, however, says he is not an atheist but an "anti-theist." By this he means that he isn't just an unbeliever; he hates the God of traditional religion. He condemns Christianity as a wicked religion involving a sadomasochistic God who indulges in a gruesome sacrifice of his son. And why? To compel people to grovel before him. And if they don't (in Hitchen's portrayal) God hurls them into hell for eternity. Hitchens sees the crimes of religion, such as the Inquisition, as stemming from the inherently totalitarian nature of religion.
My argument in the debate was that Christians would hardly recognize their beliefs and practices in this harsh and unbalanced account. For Christians, God helps to give ultimate meaning to life. Religion gives us a moral code to live by and to teach our children. Faith helps us to deal with hardship and suffering. The prospect of the afterlife gives us hope and helps us to believe that there is eventual justice in which the good are rewarded and unrepented evil held accountable. For Christians it is not the death of Christ but the resurrection that is the central doctrine. Sadomasochism doesn't even enter into it.
Some of the most lively moments in the debate came when Hitchens and I discussed whether religion or atheism is responsible for the mass murders of history. I pointed out that even the Spanish Inquisition--a favorite atheist bugaboo -- killed 2,000 people over 350 years. By contrast, atheist tyrants like Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot killed tens of millions within the space of a few decades. Hitchens sought to argue that Communism retained many of the features of autocratic religious states. I countered by saying that if we hold religious regimes responsible for the crimes done in God's name, we should hold atheist regimes responsible for the crimes done in the name of creating an atheist utopia. Let's not blame religion not only for its own offenses but also for the offenses done by atheists on behalf of an atheist ideology.
Who won? That's for you to judge. Hitchens and I are scheduled to appear tonight on Hannity & Colmes on the Fox News Channel to have another swing at each other. Our debate was also taped by C-Span 2 (Book TV) and will be aired on Saturday at 7 pm Eastern time.
You can watch the entire debate here.
If you want to read more about my views, you can find them in my new book What's So Great About Christianity.
Reader Comments ( Page 9 of 44)
121. If everyone would stop fighting over whose IMAGINARY friend is better than their neighbor's IMAGINARY friend, we would all get along better.
Wonder where your tax money goes, even if not in a war?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MY0i3ILOHA
Justin at 8:55PM on Oct 24th 2007
122. i think being a christian that religon is perfect for government but i know athiests will disagree though i am not the shining star of example of christian i beleive that if everyone in the untied states were christian the united states would be holier than the vatican in rome i am merely a 9th grade student but i used to be suicidel (almost succeded) but my friends brought me to church and now i am helping others instead of hurting anyone or myself and for this debate there is none just sad people who are athiests who try to say "no god"
to justify wrongs as abortiion prostitutes gay and lesbians our nation was founded on cristanity why have we twisted the constitution so much i ask? we have added to it and twisted it and are now a athiestic country and excuse my bad spelling for you poeple who have nothing better to do than critizize me i am different i stand and will not wither from i beliefs
ChainMailleDork at 9:09PM on Oct 24th 2007
123. There's no need for a debate on whether or not God exists. Deep within each person, whether they will admit it or not, is the knowledge that God created them. Before the creation of the world, He was.
The only thing that will fill that void that is in the hearts of all men and women is a knowledge of the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Personal fulfillment is found only in Him. God does not want anyone to perish. He sent His son to die on a cross to take our punishment. Admit your sin. Believe that Jesus died for your sins and was raised from the dead on the third day. Confess that Jesus is Lord. It's that simple. If you don't believe and accept God's gift of grace, there will come a day that you will see that it's all true. But, it will be too late. Hell will not be a party. It will be worse than you can ever imagine, and it will be for eternity. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
Melissa at 8:56PM on Oct 24th 2007
124. I do not understand why you are debating with this anti-christ. Help me to understand the reason. It is like arguing with satan himself. Get past it if he does not open the door of his heart to Christ it is his lost. Because in the end every knee shall bow and every tonge confess the Jesus Christ is Lord.
Minister Geraldine Larkin at 10:42PM on Oct 24th 2007
125. In response to J.Wooden;You know,I can't really imagine a soul being in a place where they don't want to be,and can't leave,and will suffer pain and torment without end.But,at the end of the book of Revelation,it says "and they will be tormented day and night,forever and ever." Now,unless you don't believe that that is a literal statement,how do you explain that?
G.L. at 8:57PM on Oct 24th 2007
126. Debates,
Some of these athists people, it would be better if you just talked to a brick wall, it makes as much sense.
You can see how fair it was not, and the moderator needed to take charge.
"The fool has said in his heart, There is no God"
Tony at 8:57PM on Oct 24th 2007
127. this is just part of another attack on christianity. we've all seen it before an will see it again. true fellowship with God (sometimes called christianity) will always be bashed dissed and insulted. but it has stood the test of time just read your history books. that along is far more reason for belief the the "lastest" evolution theary.
becca at 8:58PM on Oct 24th 2007
128. Are you open-minded enough to listen to this?
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=nul
John Petsinger at 8:58PM on Oct 24th 2007
129. Religion has been a problem for society for thousands of years. It really is little more than an easy way to manipulate the masses whilst simultaneously collecting their money in the name of whichever deity is hot during that millennium.
In the end, I really don't have anything against religion with the exception of how public it is. Too many people just feel the need to be led around by their noses, I just wish they'd keep it in their homes and places of worship, which doesn't include any place that I can hear or see it.
Also, to all these people who are trying their damnedest to get religion firmly planted into the government as an exceptable ideology and practice, anyone who knows anything about the men and women who helped found the United States of America will see plainly that religion in our government is as un-American as communism.
Our forefathers knew better than to allow religion and government mix, and really, who today is more "American" than our founding fathers? Seriously?
artistca71 at 8:58PM on Oct 24th 2007
130. Religion is for the weak person! It divides people and creates wars. If anything religion is a trojan horse implemented on society to destroy it, again it's for the weak person.
acura0boy at 9:03PM on Oct 24th 2007
131. Maybe millions of people were killed in the name of creating an "atheist utopia" (whatever that may mean). Millions of people have also been killed in the names of Odin, Zeus, Yahweh, Allah, Christ, etc.
What I'm quite sure of, however, is that no one has ever been killed in the name of reason or intellectual honesty.
People who believe in a supreme being must either present evidence supporting their beliefs, or forfeit their right to be taken seriously.
keltendo at 9:00PM on Oct 24th 2007
132. Tony,
The wise man proclaims loudly that there is no god.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 9:01PM on Oct 24th 2007
133. You know what? The Founding Fathers set up this country so that we Americans can believe in anything we want to believe--be it Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Vishnu, or nothing at all. I say to theists and anti-theists--stop fighting. Respect each other's beliefs. You're not going to convince the other side to see things as you do. It's arrogant for either side to push their agenda on other people.
The only thing I would say to secular humanists is that you have a right to your humanistic values and I respect that. But don't tell people of faith that they have mental problems or ridicule their beliefs as stupid fairy tales. It's not right to generalize and discriminate against others based on their religious beliefs anymore than it is right to be prejudiced against someone because of their skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. Also, distinguish between nutjob fundamentalists and true people of faith. For instance, I would not equate the jihadist psychos who attacked on 9-11 with civil rights leader Martin Luther King.
Allison at 9:55PM on Oct 25th 2007
134. Yo Damon Simms...good response. Honestly...good stuff. Religions aren't bad though, in my opinion, they have a surprisingly accurate understanding of human nature. The only eternal debate I see in them seems to be whether to turn the other cheek or to slap back. In my opinion christians turn the other cheek and muslims slap back. It's not religions that are causing problems in the world, but people who manipulate others and blame things like religion to cover it up, that are messing things up. That people die? We kill animals all the time man what's the difference...that's one of our own species? Maybe if we didn't have so many people on the planet there would be more per person and people wouldn't fight over a rich mans left overs. Rich men get rich because poor men don't find ways to get rich, compete and distribute the wealth. I look at it almost like evolution and blame myself if I had become all I could've been I would be able to start a company to not only take out companies I don't agree with but to help the enviroment...so I'm partially responsible for globlal warming (that's just an example) But to the crusades...Lucky is the man that dies for something he believes to be right. I am a "catholic" in the literal sense...an universal believer. I am not a muslim terrorist, in case anybody was thinking it. Once again Damon Simms good response, I had the idea of this blog wrong.
Alex Casanova at 9:03PM on Oct 24th 2007
135. I THINK DINESH IS SATAN HIMSELF AND PRAY TO GOD THAT HE REPENTS SO HIS SOUL WIL NOT BURN IN HELL FOREVER I KNOW THIER IS A GOD AND GOD IS GOOD AND GOD IS GREAT AND U HAVE TO LIVE BY THE SCRIPTURES IN THE BIBILE IN ORDER TO GO TO HEAVEN THEIR IS SUCH A PLAC AND IM GOING .WNATCHA COME ALONG WITH ME ITS A FREE RIDE. HALLALUYA THE KNING IS COMING SOON OUR SWEET LORD JESUS
toots at 9:03PM on Oct 24th 2007