My new book What's So Great About Christianity, just out, is already an amazon.com bestseller and is currently No. 16 on the New York Times bestseller list. AOL posted the video of my New York debate with God Is Not Great author Christopher Hitchens on its main page, and asked people to make up their minds and vote on who won. Modesty prevents me from disclosing the answer.
Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, watched the debate and reported with some agitation that the audience seemed to be applauding more for me than Hitchens. Dawkins commented on his website that the New York crowd must have been a "dopey" lot. But if you listen to the debate--and if you haven't, you can find it on my website dineshdsouza.com or watch it Saturday on C-Span 2 (Book TV) at 7 pm Eastern time--you will see that both atheists and believers were well represented. The audience applause was initially stronger for Hitchens, and only as the debate went on did it trend markedly toward me. So is Dawkins suggesting that the audience was very intelligent to start with but became more "dopey" as the debate went on? More likely we are seeing evidence of the "Dawkins delusion," an unwillingness to use good sense and face facts when Dawkins' own belief system is called into question.
One of the most interesting questions in the debate was posed to Hitchens by a man from Tonga. Before the Christians came to Tonga, he said, the place was a mess. Even cannibalism was widespread. The Christians stopped this practice and brought to Tonga the notion that each person has a soul and God loves everyone equally. The man from Tonga asked Hitchens, "So what do you have to offer us?" Hitchens was taken aback, and responded with a learned disquisition on cannibalism in various cultures. But he clearly missed the intellectual and moral force of the man's question. The man was asking why the Tongans, who had gained so much from Christianity, should reject it in favor of atheism.
In my response, I noted that when the missionaries came to India, they sometimes converted people by force. Even so, many Indians rushed on their own to embrace the faith of the foreigners. And why? Because they were born into the low caste of the Hindus. As long as they remained Hindus, there was no escape; even their descendants were condemned to the lowest rungs of humanity. By fleeing into the arms of the missionaries, the low-caste Hindus found themselves welcomed as Christian brothers. They discovered the ideal of equal dignity in the eyes of God.
If we look at the history of Western civilization, we find that Christianity has illuminated the greatest achievements of the culture. So there is indeed something great about Christianity. By contrast, does it make any sense to say, as Hitchens does in his book's subtitle, that "religion poisons everything"? Religion didn't poison Dante or Milton or Donne or Michelangelo or Raphael or Titian or Bach! Religion didn't poison the anti-slavery campaigns of William Lloyd Garrison or William Wilberforce, or the civil rights activism of the Reverend Martin Luther King. The real question to ask is, what does atheism offer humanity? In Tonga, as in America, the answer appears to be: Nothing.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 43)
1. Dinesh says: The real question to ask is, what does atheism offer humanity? In Tonga, as in America, the answer appears to be: Nothing.
Bingo! I often ask that question, and it's stunning how unprepared professing atheists are to answer it.
Steve at 3:39PM on Oct 26th 2007
2. Mr. D'Souza, you conveniently forgot to mention that the debate was held at an Evangelical college. So much for equal representation of believers and non-believers. But this is just one among a myriad of examples of your selective memory that permeate your debates as well as your book. You should work for Fox News, you'd fit right in. What a master of spin!
Konstantin at 3:40PM on Oct 26th 2007
3. Religion is just another of the abstact concepts that rule our lives. Probably the strongest of the abstracts, as it creates more abstract concepts itself. "Morality", being one of the biggies, is one of the most contentious of the abstracts created by religion, as each religion has a different set of rules. Each is vastly different, and equally appalling to the other side.
Take for example, the convert in Afghanistan. Not long ago, a man converted from Islam to Christianity. The townspeople, as their "faith" dictates, wanted to execute him. So what did the government do? Declare him insane.... A few years back, several men decided that the United States was evil, because of what their religion tells them is "moral behavior" - and they flew airplanes into buildings.
Ken at 3:41PM on Oct 26th 2007
4. Wonderfully stated.
NickP at 3:45PM on Oct 26th 2007
5. It's pretty hilarious how Dinesh claims that Christianity posits a rational universe and then denies natural laws in the next breath! Which one is it, Dinesh? You either respect science or you don't, and it is clear from your presenation that you prefer irrationality over rational discourse.
Konstantin at 3:56PM on Oct 26th 2007
6. Steve:
"Bingo! I often ask that question, and it's stunning how unprepared professing atheists are to answer it."
The answer is: Atheism doesn't have to do anything. It's not an organization like the various religions are. There are groups of people that are atheists, but the only thing that connects atheists together as a whole is their lack of belief in Gods. Why do religious people always seem to feel the need to assume that atheists some sort of cohesive organization?
As atheism is defining someone solely by something they're not, you could just as easily say: "What do people who have names that don't start with the letter C offer humanity?"
Tem at 3:57PM on Oct 26th 2007
7. To Ron #3
You got it rite .
mack H at 4:00PM on Oct 26th 2007
8. It is incorrect logic to say because countries where Christianiary has held sway have made great achievements, that it was Christianity that caused those achievements. Actually, the scientific achievements, and policial system achievements came from logic and reason, the domain of atheists, not Christianity, the domaine of myth.
Sure people like religion. It tells them what to think, what to believe, it gives them hope, and it has some nice fairy tale endings. Besides people like belonging to a "tribe", it is comforting, and provides safety, and a social circle. But that does not make religion true. It is just a belief.
Morality is nice and eaay, if as a Christian you are willing to believe in slavery, in second class citizenship for women, and that homosexuality is a sin, not to mention that people should be killed for adulty. You also have to believe you are superior to everyone else, as Christianity is one of the holier than thou religions, a concept which most atheists, as well as those of other religions, other than the other holier than thou ones who think they are best, find morally repugnant. Rather like the Indian class system you quote.
I have met many moral people in my life, but few had religious faith. And I have taught my kids to watch out for the religious people precisely due to my experience that they often lack even the most basis sense of right and wrong. They need not think, because they think they have been given all the answers.
As long as large sections of society are uneducated, religion will flourish. Europe, with the most educated population on the earth, is fast moving to towards being totally atheist. The USA is increasing in number of atheists year after year, even though 75% of our population has only a high school education.
It will be centuries before religion dies out completely, but it will. It is the natural progression for man's intellect will overcome this fear of the unknown. And medical neutheorology will have developed to a point, where you can pop a pink pill to experience the Christian god, a blue pill to experience allah, a green pill for nivrana etc. There will be no need for all the mumbo jumbo to activiate a few brain cells to produce a "relgious" feeling.
cdnbirch at 4:01PM on Oct 26th 2007
9. Many hospitals were founded by persons of faith...
Many rescue missions are run by persons of faith...
Many Christians (and others with similar Jewish-Christian influenced ideals) care for the disabled...
The INDIVIDUAL HAS WORTH!
But eventually - the most kindhearted atheist will have kids (grandkids) who figure it out. IF THERE IS NO GOD - IF THERE ARE NO COMMANDMENTS. THEN THE STRONG CAN DOMINATE, PLUNDER, USE, ABUSE THE WEAK...
vikingmother at 4:03PM on Oct 26th 2007
10. Constantine is 325 A.D. United the State of Rome
with one religion! Christianity!
This must happen in Iraq! Lock up the Extreme Radical Insane Fanatics.. Untill a Mutual
ageement is reached on the TRUE Meaning of
the Koran is reached!
Chandler Yergin at 4:04PM on Oct 26th 2007
11. Vikingmother: "Many hospitals were founded by persons of faith... The INDIVIDUAL HAS WORTH!"
Tell this to the many church fathers who hated women. Tell this to the "Christian" American founders who thought blacks were less than human. Tell this to the fundamentalists who hate gays. Tell this to Christian extremists who blow up abortion clinics.
Morality is much deeper than learning and obeying a few antiquated commandments. If we still lived under the 10 commandments, anyone working on the Sabbath or caught in adultery would be stoned to death. I wouldn't want to live in that kind of society. Would you?
Konstantin at 4:13PM on Oct 26th 2007
12. Christianity didn't lead to a reduction in cannibalism and such in Tonga. (There was plenty of civil war in the century or so between the arrival of missionaries and the establishment of a constitutional monarchy.) Better government, stable rule of law, longer lifespans, and so forth did. The longer you expect to live, the more important it is to play well with others - the more valuable their goodwill is to you, and vice versa.
Consider - the murder rate in England has dropped by 4,000% since the 14th century. How many people argue that England's more religious now than then? But they have the factors I listed above. See here:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html
Ray Ingles at 4:22PM on Oct 26th 2007
13. To Steve # 1 - what have "Christians" like James Dobson's and Pat Robertson contributed to mankind, except occasional comic relief?
David S. at 4:22PM on Oct 26th 2007
14. Atheists are all social Darwinists, hence they are no different from Nazi's and communists. I have no religion, but I know there's a God, and trust him to work things out in the end.
victor58 at 4:31PM on Oct 26th 2007
15. My father was a missionary to Africa...Everyone needs to take a trip over to a third world country! It will make your mind do a paradymn shift for sure! I will return there for medical missions...My parents brought me up in the church, and I will forever be GRATEFUL to them for that! I have seen the politics of religion behind the pulpit, because my father is a member of Ministerial clergyman...It would stand to reason that because my parents were christians, for ME to have been a christian! That isn't always the case, but it stands to reason...We are products of our upbringing...Just as if one's parents were NOT christians, makes it easier for their children to follow suit. My children are all sincere christians as well, and they tell me many times that they are very grateful that they were brought up in the church...their hearts are sold out to Christ! You can't imagine what that does for me as a parent to see that...I can't imagine a world without Christ, but it comes down to a personal decision in one's life...I wouldn't trade for any alternate
Bridget at 4:53PM on Oct 26th 2007