My new book What's So Great About Christianity, just out, is already an amazon.com bestseller and is currently No. 16 on the New York Times bestseller list. AOL posted the video of my New York debate with God Is Not Great author Christopher Hitchens on its main page, and asked people to make up their minds and vote on who won. Modesty prevents me from disclosing the answer.
Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, watched the debate and reported with some agitation that the audience seemed to be applauding more for me than Hitchens. Dawkins commented on his website that the New York crowd must have been a "dopey" lot. But if you listen to the debate--and if you haven't, you can find it on my website dineshdsouza.com or watch it Saturday on C-Span 2 (Book TV) at 7 pm Eastern time--you will see that both atheists and believers were well represented. The audience applause was initially stronger for Hitchens, and only as the debate went on did it trend markedly toward me. So is Dawkins suggesting that the audience was very intelligent to start with but became more "dopey" as the debate went on? More likely we are seeing evidence of the "Dawkins delusion," an unwillingness to use good sense and face facts when Dawkins' own belief system is called into question.
One of the most interesting questions in the debate was posed to Hitchens by a man from Tonga. Before the Christians came to Tonga, he said, the place was a mess. Even cannibalism was widespread. The Christians stopped this practice and brought to Tonga the notion that each person has a soul and God loves everyone equally. The man from Tonga asked Hitchens, "So what do you have to offer us?" Hitchens was taken aback, and responded with a learned disquisition on cannibalism in various cultures. But he clearly missed the intellectual and moral force of the man's question. The man was asking why the Tongans, who had gained so much from Christianity, should reject it in favor of atheism.
In my response, I noted that when the missionaries came to India, they sometimes converted people by force. Even so, many Indians rushed on their own to embrace the faith of the foreigners. And why? Because they were born into the low caste of the Hindus. As long as they remained Hindus, there was no escape; even their descendants were condemned to the lowest rungs of humanity. By fleeing into the arms of the missionaries, the low-caste Hindus found themselves welcomed as Christian brothers. They discovered the ideal of equal dignity in the eyes of God.
If we look at the history of Western civilization, we find that Christianity has illuminated the greatest achievements of the culture. So there is indeed something great about Christianity. By contrast, does it make any sense to say, as Hitchens does in his book's subtitle, that "religion poisons everything"? Religion didn't poison Dante or Milton or Donne or Michelangelo or Raphael or Titian or Bach! Religion didn't poison the anti-slavery campaigns of William Lloyd Garrison or William Wilberforce, or the civil rights activism of the Reverend Martin Luther King. The real question to ask is, what does atheism offer humanity? In Tonga, as in America, the answer appears to be: Nothing.
Reader Comments ( Page 42 of 43)
616. Diaz-
I can answer all your ramblings with my observation you believe in miraculous healings.
Answer me this, why does God only ever heal things that statistically could have gotten better anyway, or that doctors probably helped cure??
Why does God never regrow a severed limb, or fix a damaged spinal column?
Hey, don't tell me that's wacky, we're talking miracles here.
A miracle aughtta be able to regrow a frikkin arm.
Never, ever, ever, EVER in the history of mankind has anyone regrown a severed limb.
God created everything, yet can't seem to manage a spare arm?
What, he forgot how?
He threw out his arm molds?
Diacanu at 4:03PM on Oct 31st 2007
617. dlaz:
"When was the last time you "verified" a secular history book? "
All history books need to be taken with a grain of salt. Some need to be taken with some heaping spoonfuls.
One good way to "verify" a history book is to see what people that weren't directly involved with the incident were writing. Even they might have their biases, but they're more likely to be objective.
Even so, the Bible is different than other history books because it makes claims of supernatural things.
Do you believe in the Qur'an? It was written along the same theme as your Bible.
"If your parents have a history of telling you the truth, do you feel the need to verify everything they say?"
That's situational. You're saying that you should believe in a religion because your parents told you it was correct?
"Some parts of the BIBLE are prophecies, predictions and what was predicted in the Old Testament came true in the New Testament."
So something that was written in Book 1 came to pass in the sequel? That happens in fantasy fiction all of the time.
"Believing the BIBLE as an accurate account of events is more sane than believeing some edited version of history."
The Bible and history books are very different.
"Proof is everywhere all you have to do is understand it as such and not allow yourself to be "brainwashed" by something else that claims to be the truth and which was written only to disqualify something else."
It's very easy to make connections between things when you're looking for them. I recommend watching the movie "Pi" or "The Number 23" for fictional examples of how something like that works.
""Faith" - all atheists claim they do not operate on faith yet you stated that you are married. Did entering into this marriage not require some degree of faith in your spouse's love and "faithfulness". Did you have "proof" that your spouse will be faithful to you to the end hopefully or did you simply beleive and had faith?"
There's a huge difference between faith in a person and faith in a religion. I have "faith" that the Earth will continue spinning on any given day, causing the Sun to appear to rise and fall. This is a reasonable expectation based on observation.
The same works with my spouse. I did not have more trust with my spouse than I did with anyone else when we first met. After time, based on observations of behavior, that grew.
Faith in a religion is a connection that requires belief with no direct evidence to warrant it.
"I hate to say this but there is so much narrow mindedness among these people that when they beat their chests about how logical and full of proof their lives are, one has to wonder just how delusional are they and how can they claim not to be brainwashed by their ideology."
One can say that about any ideology. People like to be right. When they think they are, they tend to grasp onto that idea very tightly and don't really have an open mind.
"How much proof is enough and how can I prove anything to someone who refuses to accept anything that disproves their ideas?"
That's the same problem on both sides of the argument. Proof is proof, but the amount of evidence needed to prove it is really dependent on the individual. That's fine though... I like having discussions with people that have differing views. Even if we end up not agreeing after all, I've still learned a different way of looking at things.
Tem at 4:06PM on Oct 31st 2007
618. Diacanu:
"Never, ever, ever, EVER in the history of mankind has anyone regrown a severed limb."
I remember reading about some salamanders that can do that. Maybe they know something we don't. :)
Tem at 4:08PM on Oct 31st 2007
619. Tem-
*Eyeroll*
You know what I meant.
AnyONE doesn't include critters.
Diacanu at 4:13PM on Oct 31st 2007
620. And hey, if God can make a critter that can regrow a limb, hey, we're his favorite creation, made in his own image, why didn't he give us that superpower?
Sloppy workmanship there.
Heck, where's our bat radar, ultra-violet vision, and anti-cancer shark oil glands?
Diacanu at 4:16PM on Oct 31st 2007
621. "Heck, where's our bat radar, ultra-violet vision, and anti-cancer shark oil glands?"
That's nice stuff! I guess we'll have to settle for flying cars. Is the future here yet?
Tem at 4:38PM on Oct 31st 2007
622. L Roberts-
"it does not change the fact that Christ is God".
If it's a fact, then you should be able to produce evidence.
Diacanu at 7:50PM on Oct 31st 2007
623. What do I learn from all the atheist blogs offered here in response to the featured bloggers? I have learned what NOT to do to conduct a sound evaluation of human intelligence and human abilities. Mark Twain beat all of them to the punch, but I don't think he was serious. Sam Clemens said, "Anyone who disagrees with me is obviously insane."
Ronald B. Zeh at 12:33AM on Nov 1st 2007
624. dlaz 607-11 and ray 612-13:
Well said! I like to hear it when people of faith aren't afraid to testify or make a case for their beliefs!
My world has gotten real busy again... but I will try to join the debate when I can!
Until then, don't drop the torch!!!
ManOfMettl at 1:37AM on Nov 1st 2007
625. ATHEIST'S CONTRIBUTIONS ? TRUTH !
THERE IS NO GOD !
Daniel Mullane at 3:49AM on Nov 1st 2007
626. Diacanu - please read post #140 for regrowth of something. Where would someone like you be confronted by miracles. Do you "hang out" with those believers? If you deny God's existence why would He prove Himself to you? Do you think main stream media would broadcast miracles for everyone to hear about them? Since I feel no urgent need to prove my GOD exists since this fact has already been proven many times, why don't you prove He doesn't. I love one ahteist's post "he just doesn't exist" so much for intelligent arguments. Brian wrote that christians cannot argue their point because they argue with their emotions. Are anger and hate not emotions?!? One cannot successfully argue one's point unless one is passionate about it. Science does prove passion exists and it doesn't come from logic, it's feelings, emotions - from the heart. Intelligence please - anyone, anyone???? Christians may not hold PHD's in too many fields but it doesn't make them dimwitted. Any man who denies the existence of GOD is nothing more than a fool. You should gather up you "atheist" friends and march up to those idiots at NASA and declare once and for all that their is no intelligence out there so they should stop wasting billions on space research and rovers and radio signals. They may not have gotten a response but they keep waiting because ther just might be something more than us. I believe that no scientist would want you on their debate team.
dlaz at 12:00PM on Nov 1st 2007
627. Tem - you claim to have been born into a christian hosehold - no sunday school for you? The Old Testament and the New Testament consit of many books written by many people over the course of a few thosand years - Sequel? Lack of info! Through this fact alone one can see how true and accurate the BIBLE is - one person living today writes the same thing as someone who lives a thousand years before or after them accurately describing events that will take place or have taken place and they don't know of each other - fiction or divine accuracy? The books of the BIBLE as we know it today were compiled together not written by one author. No wonder you no longer believe in anything since there doesn't seem to have been much there to begin with. Where are the real christians from your life? John Glenn said that as he looks down on planet Earth it is impossible to believe that it came out of randomness and evolved - an intelligent person cannot intelligently deny the existence of intelligent design. Prove to me there is no GOD! When was the last time an apple tree produced a cow to sustain the theory of evolution -that it is possible! How can people not be embarassed to believe such nonsense. Since most "aheists" seem to have a BIBLE please read Romans 1:18-32. How many years ago was the current state of mankind predicted and has it really changed that much or has man always tried to deny his God?!? You folks may think you are an evolved species but there were others before you who thought the same - regrettably.
dlaz at 12:38PM on Nov 1st 2007
628. Atheists,
what caused the Big Bang? whatever it was, could it not be considered "God"? if matter existed before the Big Bang, where did it come from? Do you know of any matter that can matter self-manufacture?
Please, no answers from any Creationists...just serious atheists or physists.
steve at 1:05PM on Nov 1st 2007
629. A pox on both your houses!
I can't believe the level of the debate here and it starts with DeSouza...you guys argue Christianity vs. Atheism.
Shouldn't this debate be Theism vs. Atheism?
Atheists are silly arguing that because religion is "bad" therefore there is no God...that is completely illogical.
And the Christians turn around and say "our religion has accomplished a lot of good things, so there must be a God"...how does that follow? Just as illogical as the Atheists.
Watching you guys is like watching two deaf guys play Marco Polo.
steve at 1:12PM on Nov 1st 2007
630. 1 Timothy 6:20,21 "...keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:which some professing have erred concerning the faith."
How accurately descriptive of even this blog. Atheists resort to profanity and babblings. Isaac Newton, a scientist said that this most beautiful system could only proceed from the dominion and counsel of an intelligent being. The law of thermal dynamics says that things wear out over time yet evolution states things become superior over time. Atheists claim christians believe in fairy tales - from a toad to a prince - isn't that evolution?
Once I was a tadpole, beginning to begin
Then I was a frog, with my tail tucked in
Then I was a monkey, in a banyon tree
Now I'm a professor with a PHD!!!
Evolution is Nothing+time +chance=Everything! Your math and science teachers must be so proud.
Can species cross over? Has any human ever produced something else besides another human? Some folks act like animals unfortunately but they are still humans. Where is the dignity of life in evolution when it says humans came from animals? How many people like to be called pigs or jackasses? If they are your ancestors you should be proud not take offense! How many of you have read Ends and Means and what motivated the author to write this book. He admits to wanting liberation from a moral and governmental system he disliked. Chalked it all up to nothingness because he felt like nothing. Now all the enlightened minds are buying it as fact. Many others have had issues with parents or dirty vices and hence certain products of their infested brains - blantaly obvious with some of you on this blog too!
dlaz at 1:46PM on Nov 1st 2007