My new book What's So Great About Christianity, just out, is already an amazon.com bestseller and is currently No. 16 on the New York Times bestseller list. AOL posted the video of my New York debate with God Is Not Great author Christopher Hitchens on its main page, and asked people to make up their minds and vote on who won. Modesty prevents me from disclosing the answer.
Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, watched the debate and reported with some agitation that the audience seemed to be applauding more for me than Hitchens. Dawkins commented on his website that the New York crowd must have been a "dopey" lot. But if you listen to the debate--and if you haven't, you can find it on my website dineshdsouza.com or watch it Saturday on C-Span 2 (Book TV) at 7 pm Eastern time--you will see that both atheists and believers were well represented. The audience applause was initially stronger for Hitchens, and only as the debate went on did it trend markedly toward me. So is Dawkins suggesting that the audience was very intelligent to start with but became more "dopey" as the debate went on? More likely we are seeing evidence of the "Dawkins delusion," an unwillingness to use good sense and face facts when Dawkins' own belief system is called into question.
One of the most interesting questions in the debate was posed to Hitchens by a man from Tonga. Before the Christians came to Tonga, he said, the place was a mess. Even cannibalism was widespread. The Christians stopped this practice and brought to Tonga the notion that each person has a soul and God loves everyone equally. The man from Tonga asked Hitchens, "So what do you have to offer us?" Hitchens was taken aback, and responded with a learned disquisition on cannibalism in various cultures. But he clearly missed the intellectual and moral force of the man's question. The man was asking why the Tongans, who had gained so much from Christianity, should reject it in favor of atheism.
In my response, I noted that when the missionaries came to India, they sometimes converted people by force. Even so, many Indians rushed on their own to embrace the faith of the foreigners. And why? Because they were born into the low caste of the Hindus. As long as they remained Hindus, there was no escape; even their descendants were condemned to the lowest rungs of humanity. By fleeing into the arms of the missionaries, the low-caste Hindus found themselves welcomed as Christian brothers. They discovered the ideal of equal dignity in the eyes of God.
If we look at the history of Western civilization, we find that Christianity has illuminated the greatest achievements of the culture. So there is indeed something great about Christianity. By contrast, does it make any sense to say, as Hitchens does in his book's subtitle, that "religion poisons everything"? Religion didn't poison Dante or Milton or Donne or Michelangelo or Raphael or Titian or Bach! Religion didn't poison the anti-slavery campaigns of William Lloyd Garrison or William Wilberforce, or the civil rights activism of the Reverend Martin Luther King. The real question to ask is, what does atheism offer humanity? In Tonga, as in America, the answer appears to be: Nothing.
Reader Comments ( Page 7 of 43)
91. Reply to: "...Mark 1:21, meant that he was raisng the evil spirit or demon from the man in the Synagogue in Caperneum, this is christian based rejection of mental illness. How do you actually know this is the true course of events?" (end)
Please go back and read it again.
Demonic possession and exorcism are a wonderful topic for Halloween.
"The Exorcist" was a classic horror movie.
ANY book that describes how the hero casts out an invisible demonic spirit is FICTION.
There are several credible explanations.
(1) About 80 AD, a Pharisee added a demon to the story of Jesus in order to promote his own beliefs.
(2) Jesus and his friends ran a scam, to create a reputation for Jesus as an exorcist.
(3) The "unclean" aspect of the demon meant that Satan was trying to prevent the Church from recruiting new members in synagogues after 80 AD.
The only silly and ridiculous interpretation is that the Bible story is believable and demons actually exist.
Dinesh needs to grow up. He needs to leave his "Bible buddies" for a couple of days and experience reality.
There are no demons. Humans are not possessed by unclean spirits. Jesus was not an exorcist.
It's a HALLOWEEN STORY about ghosts, resurrection and evil spirits.
Please don't allow Denish to write any more blogs until he can think like an adult. Thanks.
William Hays at 1:17AM on Oct 27th 2007
92. Gee thats just nifty and all and im sure believing in santa has helped people but the fact of the matter is he doesnt exsist, get over it.
DarthAardvark at 1:52AM on Oct 27th 2007
93. Hal Howell, a mere Wikipedia search will show you scientists understand photosynthesis very well, literally down to the molecules, and indeed, how it evolved.
And Abraham Lincoln was never a christian.
He was full blown atheist in his youth, and then a god believer, but anti-organized religion in his later years.
And atheism doesn't believe "nothing", just in an absence of the supernatural.
We believe in everything else but that stuff.
You likely don't believe in Zeus, or Thor, etc, we just go one god further.
Diacanu at 2:35AM on Oct 27th 2007
94. The Tongan's question should not have been that difficult for Hitchens. The question was loaded with an assumption that Tongans were atheists before the Christians tamed them. To be an atheist one must first have knowledge of theism and consciously reject it. I doubt seriously the cannibals of Tonga had many long,critical or inquisitive discussions about theism.
To be an atheist in my opinion is an act of critical rationality which rejects make believe, blind faith, boogeymen, and invisible authority.
There are two questions I would like to ask D'Souza. Did come into your faith by direct communion with God or through communion with another human being? Would you be a Christian if you were the only one or is your faith consensus driven.
mossydog at 2:38AM on Oct 27th 2007
95. Reply to: "How does photosythesis work?" I'm not talking of what it does, how does it work? The most intelligent scientist on the planet can not tell you. (end)
This kind of nonsense appears on dozens of Christian and Creationist websites.
Frustrated Christians are waging a war against science. Why? I really don't know.
William Hays at 2:48AM on Oct 27th 2007
96. William Hays at #93 says..
"Frustrated Christians are waging a war against science. Why? I really don't know".
Well, given inoculations against TB and Polio a couple generations ago, nevermind scores of othe rmedical advances, most of them wouldn't even be alive without scientist.
They must regret being born.
Ouch, what rough lives they must have.
My sympathies.
Diacanu at 2:55AM on Oct 27th 2007
97. But eventually - the most kindhearted atheist will have kids (grandkids) who figure it out. IF THERE IS NO GOD - IF THERE ARE NO COMMANDMENTS. THEN THE STRONG CAN DOMINATE, PLUNDER, USE, ABUSE THE WEAK (vikingmother)
You mean like the way pedophile priests use their position of authority to dominate, plunder, use and abuse the alter boys under their control? God commanded "Thou shalt not kill". Then he orders the destruction of entire civilizations down to the innocent babies. Yep, that's the role model I want for any kid growing up around me.
Annie at 2:58AM on Oct 27th 2007
98. In his book, Dinesh writes some drivel about atheist governments committing mass murders.
Let's see.... why does he say Hitler was an atheist? Has he done any research? Is he LYING?
In a speech delivered April 12, 1922, published in "My New Order," and quoted in Freethought Today (April 1990), Hitler said:
My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.
Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.
As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice . . .
And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery.
When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited.""
William Hays at 4:02AM on Oct 27th 2007
99. Wow, I only went out for 8 hours; look what has gone on here:-). I am going back to Dave’s comment posted much earlier – someone has deleted a comment – Dave’s comment used to be 68 when I copied it across to Word:-).
Dave wrote:-post67. Why do christians, including D'Souza continue to miss the point? Just because christianity is good (debateable) or has something positive to offer does NOT make it true. Did Yahweh really make the earth in 6 days? Gen. 1:1 is wrong. Read no further.
So, Dave, how do I handle Christianity and its modern adherents? This is not a rhetorical question.
They have a collection of books, the first chapter of which is wrong. It is a story that’s all. Written by those who needed consolation, for other people who needed consolation. The world was a wild, wild place back then. These were desert dwellers in the middle-east in a hot harsh climate and within a tribal environment. Jealousies over arable territory. Petty dictators ruling over tribes, fighting for supremacy, taking prisoners and making them serfs, being superstitious. Then there are uprisings in efforts to free the dictatorial yoke. You get my drift.
Fanciful tale-tellers, carving out a history for themselves. All quite understandable when seen in historical, geographic and social context. Doesn’t make it true though. Just keeps people consoled about the shitty lives they found themselves born into.
This, however, is the 21st Century. When I look at Christianity today, I see educated people and not so educated people still reading that book and not being able to see that if the first bit is wrong, as we now know it must be, then what does that say about the rest of the superstructure that builds from that first fanciful chapter? What does it say about the modern readers’ mental state? All religious sects seem to draw quite a lot of their membership from the ranks of the unhappy, the hucksters, the emotionally inadequate and damaged and then are the ones born into the sect and know nothing else and that’s called indoctrination from which escape is difficult indeed.
Again, consolation appeals to those people and the hucksters prey on them.
I presumed before D’Souza debated Hitchens, that D’Souza was a smart, well educated man. I didn’t realise he would get it so wrong. Wilfully and mendaciously wrong
How do I handle such deluded people as D’Souza and some of the posters on this comment thread? Rationality doesn’t appear to raise any coherent cognisance. In fact, cognitive dissonance appears to be flavour of the day, month, year, decade and centuries (forget millenia:-)).
You see my problem. Time has long passed since my grandmother enjoined me to not discuss sex, politics and religion in polite company. Time has long, long passed.
The dumbing down of the general populace (and others who should know better) and this new endarkment with the rejection of science is worrying. Do these people (who live in industrialised nations) not understand that science, both pure and applied, is what gives them their increased longevity, their absence of previously life threatening diseases, delivers good reticulated water supplies, deals with their waste products to reduce potential infection, builds communication systems, heats and cools their homes etc etc.
Do they understand that over the centuries, people with curiosity have pursued a non-superstitious and increasingly well-evidenced understanding of the world and its inhabitants and the universe in which we find ourselves?
What do you do and how do you handle cognitive dissonance that has leapt out of control in this modern world? That query has now morphed into a rhetorical question:-). Reason doesn’t work.
I am at a loss to converse with these people. What do I talk with them about? Just the weather? Some of them are also climate change deniers as well (this dissonance seems to attend the religious believers’ dogma). These people are dangerously deluded and their delusion affects the rest of us. Small wonder that I am concerned.
Ah, I know, they want and actively encourage the insane and probably drug-f****d ravings of Paul on Patmos. He purportedly lived in a cave, possibly ate mushrooms as part of his meagre diet and while stoned, dictated his mental meanderings to his scribe. Or Paul was talking about the political change that would sweep the ‘church’ in the next few years because he was relating the coming back of his christos before he (Paul) died. Or it had nothing to do with much at all because he was stoned.
I must stop now, my sarcasm is showing:-).
Veronique at 5:57AM on Oct 27th 2007
100. David S - While atheists obviously aren't going to be seeing any value in Pat Robertson being a Christian theologian and evangelist, your
comments on Dr. James Dobson, a pediatrician and a psychologist, are sadly and woefully misinformed at best. While it's fun to create caricatures, you're talking about somebody who has spent several decades trying to preserve families in America, something most people should be able to appreciate.
Dave at 6:23AM on Oct 27th 2007
101. to cdn birch..nowhere in the bible does it say that women are second class citizens. as a matter of fact, JESUS treated women with respect and love, witness, the woman who cried at his feet. and some of his first disciples were women. homosexuality is sin, but only one of others.
the bible is truth, not fairytales. and by what standard do you decide what is right or wrong if there is no set standard already?seems to me that youa re the lost one. not i. i will give my life for my faith in Christ in a millisecond. do you have anything for which you would give yours?
he is not a list of rules, if anyone ever told you that, its a lie.
it really all boils down to this, romans 10:9,if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. for it is with your heart that you believe, and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.and i do not think im better than anyone else, on the contrary i realize that without Jesus, i can do nothing, so please dont put all Christians in the same group besides i dont belong to a group, only HIM. i am responding to you because you sound so angry, like someone in a supposed church hurt you. if thats true, its sad. he is not a building, nor is he a list of rules. bye..
patrea at 6:39AM on Oct 27th 2007
102. This was a good article. In light of the mass of flaming you're getting, sir, I wanted you to know that THIS Christian appreciates your hard work battling ignorance. I will look for and thoroughly enjoy your book!
jkelleyjd at 6:32AM on Oct 27th 2007
103. Congratulations, Dinesh. I watched your debate with the often smug Mr. Hitchens and from my prospective you were the outright winner. Hitchens gets to much exposeure, in my opinion, which makes many of his commentary and opinions old hat. It's amazing what name recognition can do for some folks. You have a new fan. You did a great job and more importantly you were much more relevant than your counterpart. The debate has inspired me to buy your book. I wish you great success.
Bill
dungal1 at 9:58AM on Oct 27th 2007
104. As GK Chesterton once said "When men don't believe in God they don't just believe in nothing, they'll believe anything"
Dave at 7:30AM on Oct 27th 2007
105. It is easy to believe in relegion when it offers you an escape from reality. Education is the key to understanding what to believe.
James at 7:34AM on Oct 27th 2007