Commentators like Alan Colmes put on a very constipated expression when they encounter the idea that America is a Christian nation. How else to explain Colmes' attempt to convince me that the founders were Deists? Actually I went on the Fox News Channel's Hannity & Colmes last night expecting to debate Christopher Hitchens. I was looking forward to informing Hitchens off the air that my book What's So Great About Christianity is outselling God Is Not Great even in the "Atheism" category on amazon.com. Alas, Hitchens was on a plane somewhere and didn't make it to the studio. So I had to make do with battling a much less adept opponent in Colmes.
The problem is that I don't think Colmes knows what a Diest is.
He seems to think that Deism is the eighteenth-century term for atheism. Deists, however, believe in a transcendent God who created the universe. In this sense Deists are by definition theists. Where Deists differ from Christians is that they believe that, having set the universe into motion, God goes on permanent vacation. The Deist God is akin to Aristotle's "first mover."
The vast majority of the American founders were not Deists but rather practicing Christians. As I pointed out on the show, even Benjamin Franklin could not be comfortably fitted into the Deist category. Franklin after all called for prayers to save the new country. Clearly he believed that God is solicitous of His Creatures and that prayers could be heard and answered. This isn't Deism.
Jefferson was the most irreverent of the founders, and he rejected the divinity of Christ and the miracles. Colmes seemed fascinated by Jefferson's habit of cutting out passages in the Bible he didn't approve of, a strategy that liberal judges seem to employ when dealing with the U.S. Constitution. Even Jefferson, though, gave as the source of our inalienable rights none other than the Creator. To translate for the benefit of atheists who have trouble understanding simple English: God is the source of all our rights. Not the Enlightenment. Not social contract theory. Not Voltaire's parlor ramblings. Startling though it may seem, America is based on "divine right," not the divine right of kings but a divine source of political authority extended from the one (the monarch) to the many (the people).
So America is not a Christian nation in that this country is not a theocracy, nor do Christians seek to make it one. America is, however, a Christian nation in that it was founded by Christians who recognized that its most fundamental principles derive exclusively from a transcendent source. Atheists may fret and fume over this, but that's the way it is.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 13)
1. For rod.
Matthew 24:29-35. The bible was not written in english it was translated. Some words can be interpreted in different ways if you check your bible again it probably has a footnote that say Or race because it can be translated as that. So all im saying is dont forget the term "lost in translation" before you disregard the whole bible over a single word.
Also I saw something else in these post about why christians feel threatened by a minority of atheist. I feel that way because I respect that its hard to beleive sometimes the bible even admits it, but just because you beleive different than someone doesn't make the other person and idiot and doesn't mean you have to be hateful or disrespectful of that person.
Imagine being a kid again and still thinking Santa clause is real. Now imagine another kid coming up and spiting in your face and telling you how stupid you are and how silly you are for thinking it. Whether santa is real or not is it right to be this way.
Ben at 8:28PM on Nov 3rd 2008
2. Funny how Bush does the same thing to the constitution that you claim liberal judges do to the darn thing.
And why do we have to be a Christian nation? Where do Jews fit in?? By your logic of the founding fathers, we would also be a white nation.
stuart joshua at 7:37AM on Oct 31st 2007
3. Jefferson refers to a Creator in the Declaration of Independence. However, the Declaration is not the foundational document of the United States. The foundational document is the Constitution, and neither God nor Christ nor any other deity is mentioned in the Constitution. The only "transcendent source" of law recognized by the Constitution is "we the people". The Founding Fathers intended the Constitution to be a secular document through and through and thus intended the United States to be a secular nation through and through. The Religious Right may fret and fume over this, but that's the way it is.
emelpe at 7:49AM on Oct 31st 2007
4. So his book is out-selling Hitchens's... and? Only proves what Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, and Dennett say: you folks are delusional.
Joseito at 8:26AM on Oct 31st 2007
5. Good point stuart. Not only would we be a white nation, but we would also be a man nation.
Douche,
Why do you feel you have to tell everything about Christianity and how great it is?
Eddie Vedder at 8:22AM on Oct 31st 2007
6. This is from over a decade ago:
http://www.waxwingwebs.com/thedoge/christian_nation.html
------------
The_Doge's Christian Nation Challenge!
(So far completely ignored)
The challenge is simple, really; provide the Biblical passages from which the following essential aspects of the American legal/governmental system have been derived:
* Government by officials elected by the governed (republican democracy)
* Separation of powers (executive, legislative, judicial)
* Trial by a jury of one's peers
* Presumption of innocence
* Freedom from cruel or unusual punishment
* Freedom from involuntary self-incrimination
* Freedom of speech and assembly
* Prohibition of the establishment of religion (could be a toughie!)
* Right to keep and bear arms (or establishment of a militia; take your pick)
* The concept (embodied in both the DOI and Constitution) that the power to govern resides with the governed and is granted by them to elected officials
Secular and historical models and sources for all of these are available, some of them pre-dating your religion. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to come up with Biblical ones that are at least as clear. Without them, claims that the American system of government is based on the Bible are unsupported, no matter how many quotes you post demonstrating this or that founder's belief in a God of some sort and no matter how much idolatry you insist on practicing on public land.
Well?
Ray Ingles at 8:22AM on Oct 31st 2007
7. You WISH you could compare yourself to Voltaire, Dinesh. Even in a powdered wig, silk jacket and high heels, he would trounce your ignorant ass all over his "rambling parlor."
I've refrained from saying anything personal to you, but I'm saying it now-- you are a complete tool. And it is more than apparent that you don't even believe in Christianity-- you just found a cash cow, and the 24%ers are eating it up your lies and arrogance with a spoon. It's so sad that you use the gullible to line your own pockets.
J Boyd at 8:47AM on Oct 31st 2007
8. http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
prffsrx at 9:00AM on Oct 31st 2007
9. Some say "religion are opiate to the masses";
Seem to me that religion-extremists are snakes to the society, and Dinesh would be the Indian sit among them playing the flute.
jax at 8:54AM on Oct 31st 2007
10. your such an idiot Dinesh! it is a valid fact that the founders of this nation were deists! that means they WERE NOT CHRISTIAN! its not a Christian phenomenon to believe in a god! sure deists believe in "a creator" but they don’t believe in religion. since religion was created by man they know it is wrong and since they are enlightened thinkers they cannot except this. get your facts straight and stop just trying to sell books. Hitchens will always have an upper hand on you people because he is witty and NON FULL OF DOGMATIC PROPAGANDA! get a life DD!
Ross at 8:58AM on Oct 31st 2007
11. We see that what makes America great and a great place to live is Christianity. Atheism and Secular Humanism has a track record of misery everwhere it is practiced.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
prffsrx at 1:32AM on Nov 4th 2007
12. you are the most biased writer on aol. which is quite a statement! to say that Franklin and Jefferson were Christians because they used symbolic speech like pray for this nation and such is ludicrous! your past 10 blogs have been about how Christianity is the greatest thing ever and everything else is horribly wrong and if we don't follow your views then were just ignorant. Jefferson was saying that the government doesn't give you your rights that you have them from being a human and being born. He used the literary form of a creator but he wasn't saying "the Christian god granted you your rights" because that is ridiculous and unlike you he was smart enough to know that GOD DOES NOT EXIST! next your going to tell us how the tooth fairy is the real basis of dentistry and all those Drs are just trying to profit off the holy tooth fairy. all you are is a demagogue and lord knows we don’t need any more of those. uhh ohh i used the term lord that must mean im a Christian!
Ross at 9:13AM on Oct 31st 2007
13. Dinesh, America is a Judeo-Christian nation. Thank God. Anyone who wants to be Islamic and worship a pagan Moon god that doesn't exist, please leave for an Islamic country right now. Have fun! Anyone who thinks they should be worshipping a Hindu elephant god, please leave for a Hindu country right now. You bunch of hypocrites! No, you'll stay right here in the good 'ol civilized Judeo-Christian USA.
Dinesh, how do you deal with the ignorant, name-calling fools on your blog? Name-calling - the refuge of a person with no argument. NO, you are not a "complete tool," Dinesh - the person who called you that is.
I have bought other books by Hitchens, such as "Why Orwell Matters," but I would not buy this one.
Stephanie at 9:53AM on Oct 31st 2007
14. The issue is God's existance, and Dinesh is right on. One creator is much more plausible than lightening striking the ocean and a single cell forming from chemicals. Even the most primitive cell is very complex. It could not have been accidental.
You non-believers are stuck. If there is a God, then we should be able to acknowledge God in our country.
All your complaints about these issues are political. Religous people have a moral compass to help them weigh issues. This helps them form opinions and generally will make much more thoughtful decisions than atheists. Morality to an atheist is whatever they decide on a given day.
Quit trying to m "muddy the waters" with arguments about racism, sexism, dieism, etc
ken holz at 10:18AM on Oct 31st 2007
15. The tired argument as to what was believed personally by the founding fathers is irrelevant to what they did when actuallycreating a governmental framework. At the time, even more liberal countries like England had official religions and state churches. This translated to a greater or lesser degree in governmental coersion into the religious affairs of its citizens and, at the very least, in some sort of control of religious affairs by the government, whether through taxation or laws regulating religious activity. The founding fathers, no matter what their personal beliefs, and no matter what was stated in the Declaration of Independance, clearly avoided establishing a state religion, even the formality of acknowledging one as in England. They went out of their way toi clearly and unambiguously state that in the new nation there will be complete freedom of religion and a neutral government when it comes to faith. This was unprecedented at the time and this concious choice to separate govenrment from personal religious beliefs and organized religion was intentionally done in an historical environment where such a move exhibited a clear intent not to make this in any way a religious nation when it comes to governmental institutions.
eric at 10:11AM on Oct 31st 2007