Uh, no, it's rape. So says the bar association in a rare rebuke of a municipal judge. The judge ruled that a woman forced by a client to have sex with three other men at gunpoint should be considered just "a robbery." Salon.com's Broadsheet quotes the Chancellor of the Philadelphia Bar Association's condemnation of the decision: "Even though the woman is a prostitute, it doesn't mean she couldn't be a victim. Once she says 'No, it's not okay,' then to have sex with her is rape."
It's amazing the judge could have thought otherwise, but she even defended the decision later to the press. According to the original AP article:Municipal Judge Teresa Carr Deni heightened the furor when she defended her decision to a newspaper. ''She consented and she didn't get paid,'' Deni told the Philadelphia Daily News. ''I thought it was a robbery.''
Deni also told the newspaper that the case ''minimizes true rape cases and demeans women who are really raped.''
Some back-story on the case from the same article:The 20-year-old woman, a single mother, testified that she worked for an escort service that advertised through the Web site Craigslist.
She went to a North Philadelphia home Sept. 20 to meet Gindraw, who had agreed to pay her $150 for sex. He then said that a friend was coming with the money and that the friend would pay her another $100 to perform sex acts.
Instead, three other men arrived, and Gindraw pulled a gun and ordered the woman to have sex with all of them, she testified.
''He said that I'm going to do this for free, and I'm not going nowhere, and I better cooperate or he was going to kill me,'' she testified at a preliminary hearing.
The article also quotes Carol Tracy, executive director of the Philadelphia-based Women's Law Project, as saying the judge's comments that the case was just "theft of services" was ''a throwback to the Middle Ages, when rape was a crime against property, not against a person.''Seriously. The implication of the decision is that prostitutes are offered less protection under the law than other women. We're relieved to see that the bar association is on the case.
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 10)
16. If all a newspaper really offers is articles and, as many people do, you pick up the newspaper to read the headlines while standing in line, aren't you "stealing"?
IGUESSBORING at 2:28PM on Nov 1st 2007
17. You have to ask yourself if she got paid would a complaint been filed. In my opinion if we are going to have truth in the law then all involved should have been tried for prostitution, solisitation of a prostitute, etc. It is true what momma used to say - be careful what you are advertising....
sammedee at 2:33PM on Nov 1st 2007
18. Being forced to have sex at gunpoint is rape. I do not care if she was a prostitute. This is her occupation and she agreed to have sex with ONE man. There are obvious hazards and risk in this occupation. Are there not risk being a factory worker? If you work on a lathe and your arm is mangled because the guard was not sufficient is that your fault? If you work in a mine and the mine collapses it that your fault? If you are a fireman and you get 3rd degree burns? How about highway road crew worker who is hit? There are hazards to many jobs and granted this one is illegal in most states, however it does not mean that rape is acceptable EVER. I am extremely disappointed with the first nine comments also. People want to think feminist is a nasty word, however apparently women are still fighting for their rights, made obvious by many of the comments.
rebelblue88 at 2:45PM on Nov 1st 2007
19. She knew she was engaging in dangerous and felonious activity. There were inherent risks to here life from many avenues directly and indirectly and she assumed those risks when she as an adult woman chose to be a whore. Now she runs to the Arch Typical Anglo American Daddy of every woman, The Government/Justice system and it's Henchmen, the Constabulary and expect that they are going to make it all better. "Gimme shelter" from my bad...
Women are simply not held accountable for the things they say and do in the Anglo Saxon world as long as Males can be found to hold accountable for their behavior in proxy....
KrautKnabe at 2:44PM on Nov 1st 2007
20. Well, had she not placed herself in that position by offering her "services" in the first place, she may have never had to suffer more than she "bargained" for.. Sure, charge them with rape, and charge her with prostitution! She put herself in that place with that kind of people.. what really did she expect, a prince to ride up in a limo and drive her off into the sunset?? Oh wait, thats what we show in movies.. why not?
tinawas911 at 2:48PM on Nov 1st 2007
21. I think this is sloppy for several reasons: 1. She was breaking a law by engaging in illegal trade acts. 2. What the men should have been charged with first was kidnapping, since they held her against her will with a threat of violence; false imprisonment, too. 3. For rape to stand, she would have to prove that she didn't want sex with the other men, under any conditions. 4. I think her charge is shaky, sadly enough, becuase she went there for paid sex; the acts of which are illegal and the terms of which are fairly irrelevant. i think the prosecutor should have gone for kidnapping and be done with it.
! at 2:53PM on Nov 1st 2007
22. KrautKnabe
Honestly, what are you talking about Anglo Saxton world? Do you mean white in America? All of Europe? Have you been to Europe? Your fist comments were childish and offensive. Of couse to be offensive is the defence of ignorance. Lay off women and man up. Really if they wanted to get laid it is pretty pathitic they had to put a gun to someones head to get some action. One would think they could go to any bar about closing time just as any man or woman can and find some action. To hold someone at gunpoint and rape them is no longer about just sex, it is about power and it is a crime. Period.
rebelblue88 at 2:53PM on Nov 1st 2007
23. First, charge the men with robbery, menacing, theft of services, unlawful imprisonment and unlawful posession of a weapon.
Then, charge the whore with 4 counts of prostitution and 4 counts of sodomy.
She admitted to a crime, so she should be charged as well.
Jim at 2:55PM on Nov 1st 2007
24. This judge is bizarre. OK, judgie, here's the difference:
Case 1: A prostitute has sex with a man because he has promised her money. If he skips out on their deal, it's called "theft of services".
Case 2: A prostitute has sex with a man holding a gun on her, because he has threatened her with physical harm. This is called "rape".
Are we clear yet?
cat at 2:58PM on Nov 1st 2007
25. Cattie.
Prostitution is a Felony sex act and a crime to begin with and she should not be soliciting to engage in the first place so if you do such things and you know that there are very high risks involved with doing that in exchange for the greed of the money you seek...which do you prefer?
If you are an ANGLO (for rebels benefit) woman you can have it all....
Are we clear now..
If I were, as a man seeking drugs and got shot in the process of a drug deal, do you think they would hesitate to Prosecute me for the Drug transaction any less than the Guy who shot me?
KrautKnabe at 3:06PM on Nov 1st 2007
26. Jim, move to Pakistan. That't the law there. Forced sex is rape, period. That's true for men or women. Or are you the type who says only 'good' girls get raped?
Will at 3:11PM on Nov 1st 2007
27. KrautKnabe
If you were seeking drugs and were shot, yes I would expect you to be prosecuted and I do not dispute that the prostitute in said post should be charged. However I would also expect the individual who shot you to be prosecuted and not be allowed to bypass the justice system because they shot someone involved in illegal activity. Both the shooter in your scenario and the rapist in Ada’s post should be prosecuted. Both actions are a crime and you are proving my point in your scenario. Should the shooter walk because you are a “doper?”
rebelblue88 at 3:28PM on Nov 1st 2007
28. They threatened her life with a gun. She may be a hooker, but she is still a human being. Yes she should have bn charged with prostitution (for the original customer), but the other men were rightfully charged with rape.
Lisa S at 3:29PM on Nov 1st 2007
29. Why would the woman be prosecuted for prostitution when she didn't get paid. She agreed to have paid sex with one man and was raped by four. How can this not be a crime.
Lori at 3:36PM on Nov 1st 2007
30. I am a man. All of the people in this case are guilty of criminal activity. The woman and men for prostitution (no need to debate the law against it since the law was in play)and all the men for assault with a deadly weapon, 2 of them for rape since one of them had consent and the other one the most punishable for orchestrating the crime.
All the woman haters will disagree with me so no need to reply to me with negative or positive comments. I won't read them.
Mr Reasonable at 6:53PM on Nov 4th 2007