I debated atheist Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic magazine, yesterday on the Michael Medved radio show. It was a two hour debate, and conducted at a high level that is not characteristic of radio programs. The main focus of the debate was my bestselling book What's So Great About Christianity, and in the course of the discusson we covered a lot of topics from the fine-tuned universe to why humans evolved morality to whether Adam and Eve were real people.
Shermer, always ready with his ream of data, uncorked some fascinating statistics about how Christians are more prone to social pathologies than non-Christians. For example, the more-religious United States has higher crime rates than the less-religious Europe. In America, evangelical Christians are apparently more likely to be uneducated and to have higher violent crime rates than non-Christians. Shermer even cited a study showing that secular doctors were more likely to do voluntary work than Christian doctors. Shermer went on and on about all this, and I was waiting for him to reveal that Christians have a greater tendency to bestiality than secular folks, but to my surprise Shermer had no data on this subject.
Actually U.S. crime rates today are not substantially higher than those of Europe. That's because there has been a marked decline in violent crime in America. But even the old statistics prove nothing, because the U.S. is an ethnically diverse society, immigrant societies always have higher crime rates, and European countries typically don't have the black-and-white problem that is peculiar to America. Yes, evangelical Christians in America may be poorer and less educated than non-Christians, but that may be because evangelical Christians are more concentrated in the South. One can hardly conclude that evangelical Christianity makes you poor and dumb. Finally C.S. Lewis made the point that a religion like Christianity which advertises itself as a remedy for human sin and brokenness is bound to attract more people who find themselves to be sinful and broken. Christianity attracts sinners for the same reason that doctors attract patients: one can hardly hang out at the doctor's office and then condemn the service because predominantly messed-up people keep showing up day after day.
Shermer and I will be debating December 5 at George Washington University and the public is invited. (I will post the venue and time on this blog.) We will also be debating December 9 at 2 pm at Cal Tech in Pasadena, California. Tickets are available for this event at a nominal price and you can find the details at skeptic.com. Seating is limited so book early.
Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 16)
1. Black and white problem that is peculiar to America? At least we don't have a caste system, you untouchable fellow you.
By the way, are you a broken and sinful fellow as well???
stuart joshua at 7:07AM on Nov 6th 2007
2. This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. The people who are doing some of these things are not Christians. Ummm Hello! They can call themselves that if they want, but it doesn't actually make them one. Whoever came up this bunk is flat out making it up. He probably hates Christians.
DaniMae at 7:02AM on Nov 6th 2007
3. And here comes the torrent of posts proclaiming that the people committing crimes aren't "real christians". just like Kent Hovind (in prison for fraud) isn't a "real christian". Just like Ted Haggard (partial to renting gays for sex) isn't a "real christian". Just like the countless priests found guilty of paedophilia aren't "real christians".
At the rate you people are going there aren't going to be many "real christians" left, if indeed there were any to start with.
God Be Gone at 7:28AM on Nov 6th 2007
4. Christianity is a terminology that has been corrupted. Many people may call themselves christians when they are not. Are you really a Jesus Christ Follower? that's the question you want to ask. A real christian will be a person of testimony not a fake, and you can find them in the North and South, East or West of the country and the world. Now, people need Jesus, not religion...In the bible we don't find facts about any particular religion...and yes, Jesus came to serve a world full os sin,and to help the poor and the sinners...So thanks God the church is full of themn ...I guess you are saved and don't need God in your live but I do need him...more and more everyday
JOHN MOLINA at 9:19PM on Nov 6th 2007
5. How many former wives do the good religious GOP candidates have between them? We need Newt to up the total.
Dennis at 7:33AM on Nov 6th 2007
6. It takes more faith to be atheist then a believer.
Greg at 8:01AM on Nov 6th 2007
7. @#5 *than*, Not then. Which ironically gives credibility to the claim that christians are less educated.
God Be Gone at 8:06AM on Nov 6th 2007
8. When one converts to Judaism, one must study for many, many hours, meet with a rabbi many times, do a huge amount of reading and research, learn rituals, songs, and prayers, and may even have to take classes. Then the person appears before a Bet Din, or religious court, and is evaluated to see if the conversion process has been done correctly.
Do you know why Christianity is so appealing to the uneducated? Because it's a LAZY religion. You don't need to study, you don't need to be tested or evaluated, you don't need to learn vast amounts of history or ritual or information. Hell, you don't even need to crack the textbook (Bible)! All you have to do is "let Jesus into your heart (wha'ever)", and then pick and choose whatever scripture works for you and go about and "spread the gospel" that you don't even fully comprehend.
J Boyd at 8:13AM on Nov 6th 2007
9. Too bad dd ddn't write a book about the wonderful noble Iraq war, perpetrated by his bestest buddy and that good christian man, pres bush. This way, he would HAVE TO write about the war everyday, instead of ignoring it, BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE AND HIS COHORTS WERE WRONG. Alas, his drivel is about smiting atheists, and that ages-old debate about christianity: things that can neither be proven nor quantified.
Why not try debating an intellectual on the Iraq war, or some of the good christian pres bush's other policies, which you so firmly and shamefully support?? Why not?? Because those are quantifiable and disgraceful things, which you could not possibly effectively defend.
stuart joshua at 8:17AM on Nov 6th 2007
10. In my 48 years on Planet Earth, I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of "Christians'" seem to have suspiciously forgotten to read the Book Of Matthew.
dottie at 8:18AM on Nov 6th 2007
11. It's almost funny that in the middle of a war by Islamo-extremism, trying to convert the world into Islam (AGAIN) and where their lovely be-headers would come after liberals like Michael Shermer in half-a-minute, he instead insists on mocking Christians.. like an angry child who tries to provoke his parents. I don't even go to church and
I'm not a spokesperson for Christianity either, but seriously; Is the far-left movement so disillusioned that they can't see the real threat on the horizon and rather spend their time chasing Christians??
Bo at 8:23AM on Nov 6th 2007
12. Shermer presented rock solid statistics to support his claims. D'Souza's only strategy to rebutt those claims was to make a joke (and I use that term loosely) about being surprised there were no statistics on Christian's and beastiality. I bet it hurt like hell when he pulled THAT comment outta his ass, considering that he had to do it with his head firmly planted up there as well. I don't trust people who, when faced with facts, are reduced to lame attempts at humor to try to deflect the truth. I wonder why D'Souza brought up beastiality....perhaps he had it on his mind already.
dottie at 9:13AM on Nov 6th 2007
13. I have a fair degree of knowlege about the Bible and believe in the philosophies and works of Jesus.
It appears to me modern Christainity at large doesn't represent the man at all. It is mostly political religious hype. Bottom line is some represent his cause but many or most do not. I think the world would be a much better place if those claiming Christianity would imitate more the man they claim to worship.
one2etc at 8:55AM on Nov 6th 2007
14. "Is the far-left movement so disillusioned that they can't see the real threat on the horizon and rather spend their time chasing Christians??"
And is the far-right so corrupt that they stage an illegal war for oil and profit while letting the man who murdered 3000 of my people run free for 6 years?
J Boyd at 10:20AM on Nov 6th 2007
15. >>>European countries typically don't have the black-and-white problem that is peculiar to America
Liz at 9:11AM on Nov 6th 2007