We just ran an article on Babble.com called "And Baby Makes Four." It's by a woman, Miriam Axel-Lute, who has two partners, one a man and one a woman. Together, the three of them are raising a little girl. From her vantage point, her family and the other "triad" families she knows seem to be working at least as well as the monogamous heterosexual couples (better, if you consider the advantage of three potential incomes and three sets of hands). She writes:
"Why do some kids have three parents?"
A group of our friends were spending a weekend at a cabin in the mountains, and our hosts' not-quite-three-year-old was starting to do the math. Over the squalls of nap-resisting toddlers, her mom responded without missing a beat: "Because they're lucky."
We loved reading about how three parents raise a child together as equal partners:
There's no question in my family about who is a parent. All three of us went to every prenatal appointment. My wife cut the cord at the birth and is on the birth certificate as the witness. We took the same last name so as to share a family name with our children. We paid way too much money to a lawyer to draw up a co-parenting agreement so that our intentions are crystal clear, even though the state of New York would consider it an unenforceable contract.
My daughter just learned to pronounce "Mommy" and "Mama" differently, and every morning the first thing she does when she wakes up is take inventory: "Daddy!" "Mama!" "Mommy!" If someone's left the house already it requires repeated explanations. There's certainly no question in her mind who her parents are.
Read the story here, then weigh in in feedback. How do you feel about Miriam's family? Fascinated? Appalled? Jealous? Could polyamory be one solution to the nation's childcare crisis?
Reader Comments ( Page 5 of 6)
61. This article should have read:
Caution: Do not try this at home, Hazardous to your health/Mind and family.
P.S. should have been rated as R-F: Real life Freako's
Freaks just trying to get there way-who cares about jealousy in comparison to what that little girl will deal with when she is old enough to understand. Mom-Mom-Dad-Q: If Mom says no can I ask Mom and Dad?, Haha...who knows? I am confused and i just read about it.
Jealousy -yeah- how does it work when you ad one more- isn't that the root problem of jealousy in the first place?
The reason there is so much to say about this article is because it primarily goes against what humans are supposed to do-take it from nature- animals pair in TWO's,
This also belittles females:
How many females does it take to raise a child?-well in this case it takes TWO!
How many men would like to be John Doe? most men,
Why does a couple not mean two people? I can hear other countries say-those damned Americans do not know how to count.
Why do we need to go and mess with what works?
why are people so messed up? why? why? WHY? so you see, the questions go on and on and on. Folks let's keep things simple, there easier to fix in the end.
michipdeq at 2:56PM on Nov 18th 2007
62. It's silly to say that its a reinvention of the family situation or to say that people evolved into the conclusion that two parents was the right number. For thousands of years other countries were and some still are having more than one mom. Of course the big difference is that few more than one mom's are lesbian couples. And these other families got along just fine, since the setup lasted so long. Heck, its still in practice in some places here in america, but once again, it has one man and a hundred wives.
Chris at 3:18PM on Nov 18th 2007
63. Maybe this isn't your cup of tea, but it does work for some of us. I've been involved in a couple of poly relationships and am in one right now. How I live my life and who I associate with are none of the government or any of your concern. My child is happy, healthy and well adjusted. How many parents he has is irrelevant to what sort of parent I am. Maybe if more of you tried being a role model and actually living your religion, instead of running down those who don't follow your god's teachings, your kids would turn out better. My relationship happens to be the "one guy, two girls" model shown here, but that's not the One True Way or the only way. I'd be just as happy having another guy to help out with childrearing and the bills.
No Need For a Name at 3:27PM on Nov 18th 2007
64. When wife/Mothers first entered the workforce, To make a better life for there family, everyone was in arms. Saying that it would ruin the traditional family. Now we see the world a little clearer and see there is no reason anyone who can work shouldn't have the option. On the other hand the "traditional family" has changed. Im not saying for the worse of better, just changed. Now It is difficult to raise a family on just one income. My question is: Do you think having two incomes and one at home or three incomes will make it difficult for the "new" traditional family to exist? Are we looking at a new evolution in family?When you get down to it, it is all about compitition.
status quo at 4:46PM on Nov 18th 2007
65. I am curious as to whether anybody would take offense at sex between grown men and children? My guess is that most would but there is a segment of society that would not. They would call YOU intolerant. Funny, when people express opinions different from you....you call them 'ugly witches' but if YOU express YOUR offense at someone else's choices, you expect to be heard and respected for your opinion. Folks don't seem to mind free speech as long as you agree with THEM. We are setting aside the concept of family that has been established in any civilized society for thousands of years. I don't think it needs any 'experimentation'. We just need to do right by our children by first,being loving spouses and then loving parents.
susan at 5:17PM on Nov 18th 2007
66. gatorgal, I'm sorry to see that your intolerance is only overshadowed by your ignorance. The church nor "christian values" belong in any form of government here within the USA. There is that little section about the seperation of church and state. I hope you have heard of it. Christian religion too often pushes itself into places it does not belong, such as this one. As for taking a stand for whats right, in who's opinion is it as to what IS right? Yours? the pope? your local pastor/priest/minister? what about the Muslim down the street? the druid next door? the Mormon, Witch, Taoist, Pagan or any other religion? how about gov't officials? In short maybe you should follow the biggest thing Jesus preached, that thing is tolerance and love for all people.
swalters at 5:27PM on Nov 18th 2007
67. Guess what, people - there's no "right" formula for parenting. Almost every single person who's commented so far has focused on the adults - the questions of sex, jealousy, stability, and whether or not it "confuses" the child.
Parenting is about children, not parents. It's about what each individual child needs. Children need stability - multi-adult families help give that. As few as three or four generations ago, multi-adult families were COMMON. Grandma and Grandpa either lived with the children, or were right next door.
Asking whether or not polyamory is healthy is very much like asking whether marriage is healthy. It rather depends on the personalities involved. I have seen some very healthy polyamorous families, and some very abusive, very toxic ones. It's not the number of people in the relationship that determines its "goodness", it's the quality of people in it. An abuser is an abuser is an abuser - whether the abuser has one spouse or five.
This isn't mathematics, where there are right and wrong answers. It's about people - "If it's stupid, and it works, it aint stupid."
Wendi at 5:41PM on Nov 18th 2007
68. Quinn:
Monogomous relationships are in strain due to many factors in our society, everything from not having resources-nucleus/extended family support available to everyday stresses-so, the only answer is to get rid of monogomy altogether? we should pool our resources? we should work as a team?
Billions of people were wrong to raise there kids in a mongomous relationship? Stats and research look at a percentage within controlled group's and as right as they may seem in there own isolated world with there numbers, then this should also be true - over 1/4 to 1/2 of the worlds population should be in jail for being reared in a monogomous relationship and introduced to religion? Dare I say that you are an extremist to your view. Let's see what the research says about the kids that are growing up in triad's or other multiple groups of people ten to twenty years from now...that should make for interesting conversation or better yet more research- I hope that you will be raising the money for it.
No matter which way you look at it monogomy works-it really is too bad for you because I do not need research to tell me so!
michipdeq at 7:14PM on Nov 18th 2007
69. I am in a polyamorous relationship. I am the childless F in a FFM triad. The OSO (Other Significant Other) has two boys from her first marriage (they're not our boyfriend's children). While I'm still getting to know them, I believe in time I will be most likely an "aunt" to them, since they're 11 and 13.
Putting aside all religious arguments, another adult in the household, whether live-in or visit, doesn't make anything harder if you set ground rules. Talking things through about how the parent wants their children raised is the important part. Communication is everything in any relationship.
oneoftwo at 8:43PM on Nov 18th 2007
70. If it so wrong then why is there a web site about it that is a Christian based web site that is all for it? Here is one of the sites http://www.christianpoly.org/ and here is another one http://www.christianpoly.org/ . That shows that it is not a sin. And for you old world people point me out somebody in the bible that doesn't have multiple wives. Oh and while it is written in every King James that multiple marriage was the order of the day in biblical times, we are told by so called Modern Christians that it is a sin, I challenge you to find anywhere in the Old or New testament that says that. And lets not even mention that as a way to control there populations slave owners abolished multiple marriages for there slaves forever ending a cultural standard for those people.
As for the economic stand point, the 80's caused the crush of 20 and 30 year olds to move back in on their parents. Cause individuals were no longer to sustain themselves. As the economic situation worsens more and more couples have found themselves unable to deal with it. And now with over 50% of the US's finances controlled by 1% of the population, that means that the other 99% are going to find alternate means of creating larger groups to support themselves. Hence, a surge of couples in their 30's and 40's and their children moving back in with their parents.
Parenting should be a no brainer, children should be exposed to as much information about the world as soon as possible. Not to mention its a lot harder for somebody to run off with your kid if there are 3 sets of eyes watching them instead of two. While this is only an example, anyone with children knows that extra help is always useful.
And finally lets here it for evolution. The world is becoming a female only world. men will not exist much beyond another 2000 years, this trend is already having effects world wide. In the late 80's the ratio of men to women in Australia was 1 to 5 . It has already hit 1 to 7 in some parts an is expected to hit 1 to 10 within 20 years. will one man, one woman partnerships work then?
gothcplintn6281 at 10:33PM on Nov 18th 2007
71. There have been quite a few crazy comments about this subject and some very good ones and you'll see which ones I'm referring to in just a minute...keep reading.
First of all, It doesn't matter if it hetero/homo/bi/poly relationship or whatever, children need love, but people don't have to be in a "relationship" to give a child love. I love my god child as if she were my own and I contribute financially where ever needed, but that doesn't mean that I have to be in a relationship with her mother and her mother's husband to contribute. My god daughter loves me as much as she loves her mother and because we don't all live together, she has no problem distinguishing who's who. I'm there when her mother needs a break, all w/o disguising a sinful relationship with the name "marriage".
Jealousy...who cares? All relationships experience jealousy at some time or another.
Now for the "Father", God will deal with you later(to whom much is given much is required). For the writers who reminded us that this situation is just another ploy of Satan, well, they hit it dead on the head. God is NOT pleased. Yes, God is a God of compassion and love and he wants us to love, but he is also a God of rules and wrath, or haven't you read the Old & New Testaments. God also wants us to have the same mind that Jesus had about sin (He hates it,(Hebrews 1:9) and just as this "marriage" is not lawful, it's sin, because sex with someone other than your spouse is sin (fornication or adultery). I don't distinguish any kind of sexual sin whether it's fornication(M/M, F/F, or M/F not married )or adultery (married person with someone they're not married to), sin is sin, it's just how they like their sex. The bible told man to leave his father's house and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh, not wives (Gen 2:24). The couple admitted that themselves because "the state of NY won't uphold the 'legal' agreement". Jesus is the only one who's keeping God's wrath for all the foolish decisions we make as humans, from being delivered.
Yes heterosexual, Christian families have often failed in the upbringing of children and often other types of relationships have turned out seemingly better children, but that's just life...life with Satan as the prince of this world, but God will reward those who keep his commandments and live according to His word, no matter how much havoc Satan manages to stir up in families striving to live as Christ directed. No one has ever gotten it all right, but that's where the Grace of God has to abound; and it only abounds to them who live according to His word and will.
Christians have every right and duty to "judge", or didn't you know, when this world is over, and yes it will one day be over, Christian will judge the world anyway (1 Cor 6:2). If I were any other religion, I would be expected to have my opinion and as a Christian I EXPECT that right too, so don't ever try and take that away from Christians.
You don't have to like it, but this country was built on Christianity and Satan has managed to convince so many people that "they have a right" to do whatever they want to do (after all this is the land of opportunity and freedom) and yep! that's right, they do, but good, bad or indifferent, one day God will judge it all.
So I say, enjoy your life, and live like you want to live, but be honest with yourselves...If you were to ask the only one, true and living God about whatever situation you're living in, hetero/homo/bi/poly or whatever, whether or not He approves, don't be surprised about the answer.
I'm sorry, but you can't claim to love both the things of God and the things of Satan; we must take a stand and admit that just because it "feel right" or "seem right" doesn't make it right in God's eyes. Now remember, if you serve another god, or don't believe in God the father of Jesus, none of this applies because other gods have other rules...or no rules at all.
TB at 12:55AM on Nov 19th 2007
72. I am amazed at the ignorance and hatred being spewed out here by the conservative right.
@lighthousecog, who says >> to say nothing of AIDS, HPV, herpes, chlamydia - that doctors tell us that now MOST young people who are sexually active will get an STD in their lifetime.
People who make immature choices about sex out of fear, ignorance and poor advice from peers and mentors are going to get themselves in trouble. Who chooses not to educate their children about sex and interferes with the education of everyone else's? Who punishes mild, normal changes in teenage behavior with threats of death and hellfire? Who campaigns to limit the availability of barrier contraception? Who uses the mantle of religious and parental authority to cover up raping children? The Religious Right.
@Mary K. N. >> AOL just carried a lengthy article on overwhelming research that has shown the vast increase in child abuse (physical and/or sexual), often leading to death, that occurs more than 70% more often in households where adults live who are not biologically related to the children.
The fruits of public policy that takes away welfare benefits from mothers if they get married, creating a huge class of "boyfriends" who are neither obligated to their 'girlfriends' nor feel much attachment to the children.
>> [horror stories]]
How do you know that none of these people were God fearing Christians?
>> this new twisted style of "family."
As opposed to the old twisted style of family?
someone said >> Satan is evil and sneaky
You bet. He took over the Catholic Church and its offshoots at least a thousand years ago. Naming calls, you know, and those of you who choose to invent the Devil by investing energy in him should really stop now. Evil exists, why feed it?
gatorgal228 says >> The Bible says that polygamy and homosexuality and wrong and therefore should not be tolerated. Period. End of story.
Citations please. If you can. Your ignorance of the Bible (Old and New Testament) is breathtaking. I hope you don't wear fabric made of more than one material, or eat pork, or do any of the many other things forbidden by the Old Testament.
>> Leave our beliefs inside the church? REALLY? What good does that do anyone? No, Christ did not tell us, "Go ye therefore and take over the legislature," but He DID say to spread the Gospel, and that is not done sitting in your worn out church pew. One way it's done is by being actively involved in our community, and yes, our government.
When your church gets involved in politics, you should immediately and permanently lose any right to any exemption from taxation. Collecting money under false pretenses and immunity from taxes to try to control the government is nothing more than fraud, perjury and oppression of the rights of others.
If the fundamentalists don't stop meddling in politics, the rest of us (other religions, beliefs, the secular and the atheists) will gang up on you to keep you from oppressing the rest of us. Don't go there, unless you want your "faith based charities" to become government licensed and government taxed instead of government funded.
>> The goal of a Christian's involvement in this manner is not to get everyone to "behave just like them" but to bring them to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
If you use tax money to try to bring anyone to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, you are the sinner by the tenets of YOUR OWN FAITH. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's; render unto God what is God's."
>> The people mentioned in this article are clearly in the wrong.
Christ teaches compassion and turning the other cheek. Look at the log in your own eye before you seek to remove the speck from someone else's. Why do I suspect that your own family life is not what it could be?
oneoftwo says >> Communication is everything in any relationship.
Amen.
loi says >> one of the things i liked about this country was that majority ruled. now do what you want, within the law, pay your taxes, be kind and whatever
I don't just like it. It's the Constitution and our history and the law. Guess what? You trample on my rights, you open up your own rights to attack.
>> but all these people validating this crap and saying, "you can never have too much love...three parents is better than one..." don't you realize you're becoming sheople?
Nope. It takes great courage to be Wiccan and polyamorous in a world full of so-called Christian hatred. It takes even more courage to confront jealousy and prejudice on its own turf.
>> bottom line, it's wrong, it's gross, it's twisted
You are entitled to your opinion and to believe what you wish. You are NOT entitled to impose your opinion on others using the machinery of the government as a weapons system.
Family is as family does. The Moral Minority has no claim or call to define "family" as one man, one woman and one angry God.
Andrew at 11:05PM on Nov 18th 2007
73. robt h rimmer wrote the harrad experiment in 1974;in 1969,paul mazursky directed the film bob & carol ted and alice. both explored alternative "monogamy." A common term in our vernacular "menage a trois" literally means "a household of three" or "threesome." I have been a member of such a relationship. It has produced three children. Thugh each of us now have different partners we are more intimately bonded than ever. The kids are part of the equation. In so many ways we are each a part of other, inextricably bound. The three us live on the same street. Our current partners are part of family. We are blessed that everyone loves the other & that what we have is in fact a communal marriage. Our 3 kids all products of the triad are bright beyond their years, intellectually curious,naturally outgoing and the most gorgeous shades of brown, black with beautiful almond eyes. We know and feel they are the most sublime pleasure we ever will ever experience in our lives. Thanks for your article! I got a bit off-topic, here, but i am the long-winded one.
boredwell at 11:30PM on Nov 18th 2007
74. similar to polygamy isn't it?
Michelle at 7:36AM on Nov 19th 2007
75. Kids care about love from their moms in a lesbian family. There are so many singles moms on http://femmate.com discuss about kids and lover on the forum all the time. The most important thing is how to balance it if they need to feed boys.
valerie at 10:54AM on Nov 19th 2007