We just ran an article on Babble.com called "And Baby Makes Four." It's by a woman, Miriam Axel-Lute, who has two partners, one a man and one a woman. Together, the three of them are raising a little girl. From her vantage point, her family and the other "triad" families she knows seem to be working at least as well as the monogamous heterosexual couples (better, if you consider the advantage of three potential incomes and three sets of hands). She writes:
"Why do some kids have three parents?"
A group of our friends were spending a weekend at a cabin in the mountains, and our hosts' not-quite-three-year-old was starting to do the math. Over the squalls of nap-resisting toddlers, her mom responded without missing a beat: "Because they're lucky."
We loved reading about how three parents raise a child together as equal partners:
There's no question in my family about who is a parent. All three of us went to every prenatal appointment. My wife cut the cord at the birth and is on the birth certificate as the witness. We took the same last name so as to share a family name with our children. We paid way too much money to a lawyer to draw up a co-parenting agreement so that our intentions are crystal clear, even though the state of New York would consider it an unenforceable contract.
My daughter just learned to pronounce "Mommy" and "Mama" differently, and every morning the first thing she does when she wakes up is take inventory: "Daddy!" "Mama!" "Mommy!" If someone's left the house already it requires repeated explanations. There's certainly no question in her mind who her parents are.
Read the story here, then weigh in in feedback. How do you feel about Miriam's family? Fascinated? Appalled? Jealous? Could polyamory be one solution to the nation's childcare crisis?
Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 6)
76. Start family traditions that last for years.
http://www.onceuponafamily.com/230139
Wes Ketchem at 11:00AM on Nov 19th 2007
77. Start family traditions that last for years.
http://www.onceuponafamily.com/230139
Wes Ketchem at 11:19AM on Nov 19th 2007
78. I personally have considered having two ladies in my life, mainly because I could if I so wished, but I know that it is not fair to either young lady.
Knowing this, I refuse to allow this. Even if both are completely accepting of this situation, there is going to be unnecessary household conflict.
Also, the women lose value due to the extra individual in the relationship.
Man and woman are equal in relationship, and this is a balance that must be maintained.
mincpa at 11:28AM on Nov 19th 2007
79. 72. There have been quite a few crazy comments about this subject and some very good ones and you'll see which ones I'm referring to in just a minute...keep reading.
>> I did. I want my five minutes back.
First of all, It doesn't matter if it hetero/homo/bi/poly relationship or whatever, children need love, but people don't have to be in a "relationship" to give a child love. I love my god child as if she were my own and I contribute financially where ever needed, but that doesn't mean that I have to be in a relationship with her mother and her mother's husband to contribute. My god daughter loves me as much as she loves her mother and because we don't all live together, she has no problem distinguishing who's who. I'm there when her mother needs a break, all w/o disguising a sinful relationship with the name "marriage".
>> And that is a wonderful choice for you to make for yourself. Yes, it is possible for an individual to provide care for a family without being a sexual participant. Countless people do it all the time. Some, however, make different choices as per their personal values, and just because you do not share them does not make them wrong.
Jealousy...who cares? All relationships experience jealousy at some time or another.
>> As is evident by the nearly 50% of heterosexual relationships that end in divorce.
Now for the "Father", God will deal with you later(to whom much is given much is required). For the writers who reminded us that this situation is just another ploy of Satan, well, they hit it dead on the head. God is NOT pleased. Yes, God is a God of compassion and love and he wants us to love, but he is also a God of rules and wrath, or haven't you read the Old & New Testaments. God also wants us to have the same mind that Jesus had about sin (He hates it,(Hebrews 1:9) and just as this "marriage" is not lawful, it's sin, because sex with someone other than your spouse is sin (fornication or adultery). I don't distinguish any kind of sexual sin whether it's fornication(M/M, F/F, or M/F not married )or adultery (married person with someone they're not married to), sin is sin, it's just how they like their sex. The bible told man to leave his father's house and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh, not wives (Gen 2:24). The couple admitted that themselves because "the state of NY won't uphold the 'legal' agreement". Jesus is the only one who's keeping God's wrath for all the foolish decisions we make as humans, from being delivered.
>> The bible also told women to shut the fuck up and be subservient to men and that it was okay to buy slaves from neighboring tribes. It also didn't seem to have a problem with Abraham having a couple of wives. So either your god is a hypocrite or... shhh... ::whispers:: He doesn't exist.
Yes heterosexual, Christian families have often failed in the upbringing of children and often other types of relationships have turned out seemingly better children, but that's just life...life with Satan as the prince of this world, but God will reward those who keep his commandments and live according to His word, no matter how much havoc Satan manages to stir up in families striving to live as Christ directed. No one has ever gotten it all right, but that's where the Grace of God has to abound; and it only abounds to them who live according to His word and will.
>> Or it's just people injecting voodoo into normal life and wondering why the kids aren't swallowing the same intergenerational bullshit that the parents have. Do you honestly think that a supernatural devil is needed to tempt humanity? Our own biological survival methods evolved to tempt us far more effectively and efficiently than the devil ever could. It's called evolution, and until human came around (and even for a good while after that) it was the most ruthless and cutthroat game around.
Christians have every right and duty to "judge", or didn't you know, when this world is over, and yes it will one day be over, Christian will judge the world anyway (1 Cor 6:2). If I were any other religion, I would be expected to have my opinion and as a Christian I EXPECT that right too, so don't ever try and take that away from Christians.
>> Oh we're not trying to take away your right to be an opinionated ignorant jackass. Every one has the right to that. Hell, these boards make money off that right. No, what we're doing is mocking you for having such unelightened, arrogant, and hypocritical ideas in the first place. Do you really think that if salvation were possible it would be extended to those who presume that they are all ready saved? Who are so arrogant as to think they can know the will of a being that is so trancendant that it eclipses existance itself? Do you honestly think that the totality of such a being could possibly fit into 900 or so pages of text... a text, by the way, that has been translated and interpreted and manipulated thousands of times. There is no original bible. There aren't even original copies of your most cherished gospels John, Mathew, and Mark. If God's will truly was so transubstantial you'd think he could some how magically preserve the original texts, wouldn't you?
>> Sounds like you have some praying to do. Or better yet, some growing up to do.
You don't have to like it, but this country was built on Christianity and Satan has managed to convince so many people that "they have a right" to do whatever they want to do (after all this is the land of opportunity and freedom) and yep! that's right, they do, but good, bad or indifferent, one day God will judge it all.
>> Incorrect my dear jackasse! You do not have the right to shout fire in a theatre... unless there actually is a fire. You do not have the right to smoke in a california resturant. You do not have the right to drive backwards at ninety miles an hour on the interstate. You do not have the right to shoot a tied up horse in arizona. You do not have the right to not file your income tax return indefinintely. You do not have the right to die without a living will. You do not have the right to abort other women's fetuses against their will... a right I would dearly love to have as all my coworkers seem to be taking maternity leave at the same time!
>> The point, my dear jackasse, is that there is far more to right and wrong that has nothing to do with out of date biblical traditions. Indeed, if we were to apply the ten commandments to federal law then only THREE were included at America's inception: thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, and thou shalt not bear false witness (at trial). Has there ever been laws against adultry? No. Has there ever been laws against coveting? Our economy depends on there not being one! Has there ever been a law sawing that there is only one lord and god? On the contrary, there is a law stating that the government will never, ever, have such a law. There are no laws recognizing the sabbath or religious holidays, and while the government does close down on those days it does so as a courtesy to federal workers who are believers, not in recognition of any sanctity of those days.
So I say, enjoy your life, and live like you want to live, but be honest with yourselves...If you were to ask the only one, true and living God about whatever situation you're living in, hetero/homo/bi/poly or whatever, whether or not He approves, don't be surprised about the answer.
>> If there ever is a God and I meet him I am going to kick him square in the nuts. Repeatively. Then I am going to apologize, as a few questions about some physics questions that have been nagging me, find out if he has an excuse for fucking up as badly as he had, and then take my options.
I'm sorry, but you can't claim to love both the things of God and the things of Satan; we must take a stand and admit that just because it "feel right" or "seem right" doesn't make it right in God's eyes. Now remember, if you serve another god, or don't believe in God the father of Jesus, none of this applies because other gods have other rules...or no rules at all.
>> I agree. Meth seems quite right to some one taking it. Considering how it alters the brain chemistry to unload pure pleasure contrary to natural impulses, it is only responsible to stop people from engaging in such self destructive behavior. The same can be said for people who insist on using poor logic and arrogant generalizations in defense of a two thousand year old expired theology.
Somber at 11:38AM on Nov 19th 2007
80. TB,
The Dark Ages called, they said "GO BACK!"
Tim at 1:32PM on Nov 19th 2007
81. Hey Somber: you are soooo "F" up as is evident in your choice of words---I am sure everyone already has noticed. Let me also add, ONLY in your dreams could you ever fantasize in that sick head of yours that you could even come close to a God that you do not even understand and loath-you unfortunatley will be toooo busy trying to run from demons that already love you...Your quoted below--Sounds like an angry atheist to me. P.S. I really don't think your leg will be long enough to kick my God anywhere-at some point you were surely dropped on your head and lost your sense of reality.
>> If there ever is a God and I meet him I am going to kick him square in the nuts. Repeatively. Then I am going to apologize, as a few questions about some physics questions that have been nagging me, find out if he has an excuse for fucking up as badly as he had, and then take my options.
michipdeq at 2:10PM on Nov 19th 2007
82. "ONLY in your dreams could you ever fantasize in that sick head of yours that you could even come close to a God that you do not even understand and loath-you unfortunatley will be toooo busy trying to run from demons that already love you...Your quoted below--Sounds like an angry atheist to me. P.S. I really don't think your leg will be long enough to kick my God anywhere"
Hey Pot...Let me introduce you to Kettle...You assume you know ANYTHING about God, let alone Understand His will? Based on what, because its sure not empiracle evidence or experience?
Only those with the courage to question thier faith, and the Tenets of thier Dogma should have the privelege of evangelizing anything. To 'Father John' and those like him (of which I've met very few, and whom I've taken much). You are the ones who comprehend the Message and spread the True Word. For that you get my utmost respect.
Biologically speaking, genetic diversity is nothing but an advantage. So in the eyes of Nature poly/whatever is the best way to promulgate a species. However, humans with 'civilzation and society' are entirely too successful as it is. It almost seems we're the only species on the planet that wont submit to natural selection and the way of the earth. (survival of the fittest)
I am not religious [although my opinions are most closely aligned with buhddism, i would accept the label of athiest(i wouldn't mind being wrong in this belief)]. I respect peoples decisions, my perspective is not thiers and thier 'faith' might offer them solace in a world full of turbulence and suffering. Or serve some purpose I don't comrehend.
In a world full of opinions and soapboxes, we shouldn't be fighting over whos right...noones right. We should be LISTENING using what suits our experience and outlook/goals the best and making the best of the ride. From the moment we are concieved we are ALL on the same destructive spiral. Learn from, support and accept each other and you might be surprised how tolerable (albiet even enjoyable) the descent into 'the abyss' can be.
Live and let live. I like to think that if there is a God, He would see beyond our worldly labels and into the spirit/conciousness (whatever makes you comfortable) of a person to cast judgment, if not withholding judgment altogether in recognition of our imperfect and precarious perch using only our 'best judgement' to guide us.
Each person has but one perspective and struggles to even fathom an existence from a different view-point. You are who you are, so live it how you wanna and see how the cards fall. THATS true faith.
Codiferus17 at 4:28PM on Nov 19th 2007
83. I realize that this concept is very new to most folks and so is understandably confusing. Polyamory is largely just like monogamy, but with more people. We love and commit to each other and are just as much a functional and nurturing family as any other.
As for jealousy, most people assume that it is a deal breaker, but it isn't. Polyamorists get jealous just like anyone else, but the benefits of our kind of family make it worth dealing with. So it's not that we get jealous, but instead how we deal with it. There are effective ways to cope with and resolve conflict surrounding jealousy, and polyamorous people recognize the essential nature of learning these skills. Once gained, the payoff is enormous.
Every argument here against polyamory has been heard before - all are an understandable result of misconception and misunderstanding (with a little relgious dogma thrown in.)
Anita at 5:13PM on Nov 20th 2007
84. One more response, specifically to the question as to whether anyone would be offended by the idea of sex between grown men and children, an absurd argument if there ever was one. The answer is that OF COURSE people should be offended by the idea of sex between adults and children. Obviously pedophilia is offensive and not to be tolerated because children cannot give informed consent and are psychologically harmed by sexual abuse. Today a wise judge in Utah made this very clear by sentencing polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs to serve at least 10 years, not for his polygamous beliefs, but instead for his convictions on two counts of being an accomplice to rape for forcibly marrying a 13 y.o. girl. Polyamorists are responsible adults who want nothing to do with such behavior.
This old red herring gets tossed about routinely when tolerance for polyamory is being debated, as if polyamory and pedophilia are in some way comparable. They are not, not any more than monogamy and pedophilia are. Polyamory is about love and commitment between consenting adults - period.
Anita at 6:29PM on Nov 20th 2007
85. Codiferus17
You attack my faith but do not even know what you stand for? Are you a semi-atheist an atheist or do you beleive in a carving that was named Budha-but the carving can't do jack squat for you?-as is obvious!
it is your spirit-the gift that GOD gives us that makes life move and shake at our will-GOD created us in his image! He allowed us to have free will- that is why you get to choose how you live your life- but that does not mean that there will not be accountability.
Yes- we are being watched.
I do not want this to seem like a personal attack on you but there are many people who think like you do...
"Father John" is what we call a false prophet -he sounds like a dictator and weak minds will follow as history proves, even people that make no sense whatsoever are followed into sin-people are either leaders or followers.
Life is not a destructive path unless that is your intention- to destroy life versus embracing it-and sleeping with alot of people and calling it love is well, a twisted version of what love really is. I am invested in this life not a passerby-that is why I stand for my conviction of what I beleive...if you would beleive in yourself a bit more then you could come to know GOD-he is in all of us wether or not we open that door...
And yes-satan has a job to do and that is to convince the world that his way is the best way-and he will paint that in as many colors as it can. People will say and do whatever they need to justify there thoughts and actions...it is all over our history -why would it surprise anyone that a percentage of people live like this and think it is ok to do so? What is the point of sharing your body/life with so many people? ok, have your cake and eat it to for now-it will only make you fat and sick at the end-as is anything that you eat in indulgence.
If this is such a brilliant idea then why are we not all living this way? clue- because intelligent minds (it perverts our minds and gets us to create additional perversion) know that it will only cause sickness- to our minds and bodies at the end-what will be the next fad/phase -then lets all share our bodies with our community because we love each other! If you refer to the bible (which you probably don't or are afraid of it) then you will read that GOD destroyed an entire city that committed such acts-to prove a point -that God does know what is best for us-we are already struggling as a human race with our environmental changes, our sicknesses that we have no cure for, our food and water sources, poverty and a host of many other things...do not keep adding to it the list! -How do you know that this will not cause a new sickness to our future without a cure? that our children or grandchildren will have to fight? when will we stop being selfish and wanting things any way we please-we are a nation that is self gratifying-what are you role modeling and passing of as love? Do you really want your child turned adult- if you have any children and understand what true love is, to be shared sexually by many people? not knowing if these people are using your child for there self-gratifying reasons? I do not think so!
love -like any emotion needs to have discipline and respect to truly understand it-and those that practice this have no respect for the future.
AND- If the human race in the future ever needs to resort to this type of practice for survival then GOD will give us the means to cross that bridge in a descent and humane way and because GOD loves us all he will give us a choice as he is doing now!
michipdeq at 9:41AM on Nov 22nd 2007
86. Welcome to the 21st Century!
MMF does exist, of course! My husband, boyfriend, and I are raising two very intelligent and well-adjusted, polite kids. They will not be latch-key children left to their own devices, running wild and bullyish in the streets. They are lucky enough to have ~three~ loving parents (and maybe even four, someday) supporting them and keeping them out of trouble. And the two incomes while still having a full-time parent who can volunteer at their school and keep them safe is definitely a benefit, as my kids don't go without basics like healthy meals and coats, like I did.
It's not about sex, any more than a monogamous relationship is about sex, and maybe less, since we don't tend to be the kind of people who get married out of some mistaken concept that marriage is the price you pay to get guaranteed sex. Polyamorous people are just people who accept that it's possible that you're going to be in love with more than one person in your lifetime, and you don't have to give one up to be with another. It's about LOVE. And now, it's also about FAMILY. We do this out of love, not kinky sex or economics. It just happens to work really well.
BTW, just because the government won't let us marry more than one person, doesn't mean we won't have a ceremony and consider ourselves married. We just won't claim the benefits offered to "normal" couples. So now you don't have to be confused about whether it's bigamy. It's not. It's a new (old) cultural way and use of old words.
And finally, let me just remind the intolerant Christians that since I'm not Christian, whatever your god calls sin and forbids to his followers... has nothing to do with me. You all need to remember that annoying little concept of religious freedom. You want yours, then give us ours. There is more than one religion in this world.
ProudParent at 5:14PM on Dec 17th 2007