We just ran a story on Babble.com that tackles what for Generation X has become a taboo subject: discipline. Kathryn J. Alexander's "The War on No: Is 'child-centered' parenting producing a generation of brats?" says that the emphasis in recent years on making children feel secure has had an unfortunate consequence: kids who have never heard the word "no," and so who are unprepared for the real, "no"-filled world.
She writes:
It's not just that many American parents are under-parenting by not setting reasonable limits. Paradoxically, we are also over-parenting by making every effort to ensure that our children are not given the opportunity to fail. At the same time, our pediatricians are urging us to cut back on the excessive use of hand sanitizers and antibiotics (kids need exposure to some germs if their immune systems are going to successfully fight the really bad ones), our child development experts are telling us to stop excessively slathering our children with the word "Yes." Our kid's emotional "immune systems" need exposure to life lessons that involve at least the risk of disappointment, failure or emotional turmoil if they are going to be able to withstand the bigger setbacks and losses they will inevitably face in adulthood.
We asked Babble readers if they thought kids today were being spoiled; an amazing 89% said yes.
Do you agree? How do you / did you / would you handle your own kids? We touched on this some last week when the Times reviewed the hardcore early Sesame Street and compared it to the much softer fare serve up to today's kids. And this anti-discipline trend seems to go hand-in-hand with the everyone-wins entertainment.
On the playground, we often see parents explaining in great detail to a two-year-old why he can't run out into traffic while the kid stands there blinking in confusion. Personally, we're very adamant about saying no when it's called for, enforcing a bedtime, sending thank-you notes and all those traditional strict-parent things.
And yet, whenever we brag about how well-behaved our son is, we bring down some kind of cosmic jinx on the house and the next day he's all trying to chase the cats and throw baseballs through the window. So for the cats' sake, we won't say we have it all figured out, but we will say we're whole-heartedly committed to raising a good citizen.
Given the attachment-parenting thrust of the current generation and the emphasis on self-esteem and creativity rather than fairness and maturity, sometimes it seems that creating responsible, capable adults isn't currently all parents' first priority.
Here's that article link again. Tell us what you think in comments!
Reader Comments ( Page 2 of 6)
16. Al, take the advice about disciplining what is truly important. The piercing is not. The schooling is. And how ABOUT having daughter spend a school-year (or school-weeks) with you. You both might learn things about each other which could be positive.
Ruth H at 1:28PM on Nov 30th 2007
17. Al-
What a tough spot! Here's what I understand about teenage girls:
1) Every teenager needs to individuate and find out if they are somebody apart from their parents. This is crucial and necessary, albeit maddening as well.
If Mom and Dad, occupy what I call the "Holy Hill"...meaning they are the only ones who are ever right...then in order to individuate, she will have to occupy the less attractive options. Her lip-piercing may be her way of saying, "Do you love me even if I'm not good?"
The key here is to communicate that you trust their basic character even though the choices are different than yours.
2) The balance to this is that every teenager wants to know there are boundaries. We're so busy trying to make our kids feel secure that we've stopped saying "no" when we should and they are scared to death. Trust me, kids want their parents to say no to them and for them--even teenagers.
Oh, they'll yell and scream and stomp. They'll even sneak out of the house to get around the "NO." (Experience talking!)
This is the balancing act of between giving her the opportunity to make wise decisions and then being the meanest dad on earth who says no.
3) Your daughter has a deep cry resonating in her heart--"Daddy, am I your princess?" and "Daddy, do you think I'm beautiful?" Now, if you tell her these things, the response may be groaning and eye-rolling and "That's gross!" type comments. Deep in her soul, she wants to know that and always has.
I've counseled with 60 year old women who have bawled because they just want to know their dad feels this way about them.
She needs to hear it from you...specifically, verbally, continually. Because she's going to start hearing it from boys and/or men.
4) Your daughter will learn more about womanhood from you than her mom. Or rather, her choices about the type of woman she is or isn't will be very closely related to what you communicate is valuable in a woman. She will either rebel against the model (of womanhood) you think is most important or she will subconciously try to live up to it--even at the expense of her own desires.
How you treat women--including and especially her mother--speaks volumes to her about what you value.
5) Finally, you have been chosen to be her father. Regardless of everything, her heart is tied to yours in an inexplicable way that shapes her like no other relationship. This is the time to dig into her world like never before. I'm not assuming that you're not investing time with her, but this is the moment to invest deeply in time and effort WITH her and expect no immediate returns.
Although everything I've written is very serious, the time with her shouldn't be. It needs to be light and easy and comfortable. It needs to be goofy--silly enough that she knows you're not all rules and serious enough that she knows that she can take what you say to the bank. (And I personally think "no sassiness" is important.)
Which leads me to a touchy subject. I don't know the story behind the breakup of the marriage. I do know this, tho. Divorce rocks a kids world--oh, they adjust. But the loss of the family they were born into is deeply wounding. Even when the separation produces some relative peace.
She may need you to acknowledge that pain and your responsibility for it. She may not even be able to touch that pain in your presence. Especially until there is greater trust developed.
All the best to you! The fact that you've asked speaks volumes about the type of Dad you are...
Josiejo at 1:34PM on Nov 30th 2007
18. My best friend is the middle-aged son of a psychologist and an elementary school teacher. He can remember being hit once as a child, over being a small child and holding a mug his Grandmother gave him out the car window. His father told him multiple times to give the mug to his mother, but my friend refused. It finally fell out of his childish grasp and broke on the road. His father spanked him twice and have never, ever hit or spanked his two sisters. This happened in 1959.
My friend because a software technician, his sister is the head of sonography at a major hospital in Detroit, and the eldest sister is the principal of a High School in Boston.
My friend has two children, a 28 year old son and a 15 year old daughter. He has never hit his children once and rarely raised his voice. His son just returned from Europe, after teaching Physics at a major university. He is scheduled to get his Phd next spring and is happily married to his wife of one year. He speaks english, spanish, russian, and turkish fluently. My friends fifteen year old daughter was accepted into an honors high school and is at the top of her class, already taking college courses.
You know what his parents used as a child rearing method, and in turn what he practiced with his children? Reasoning and rationalizing. He never spoke to his children as babies and was never treated like that himself. Apparently it worked, as it has nearly spawned four generations of happy, well-rounded, succesful adults.
Holly at 1:59PM on Nov 30th 2007
19. I COMPLETELY agree with this post. I look at "kids today" and am floored--and I'm only 23!!! I'm not that far away from being a kid of a Gen-Xer...but I'm a kid who was raised by a baby boomer and her old-school 1950's parents. I think I turned out okay...but that's probably because I've been told "no" more than once in my life...
Tiffiny
Tiffiny at 2:19PM on Nov 30th 2007
20. I agree with this post as well. Too many children are overly spoiled. I have a 15 month old son, and to be honest my husband and I discipline him now. We DO NOT beat him. The furthest is a spank on the behind, and he doesn't feel it due to pampers. But, no is no and he is so well behaved. We can take him anywhere and know that he will not embarrass us or act up so badly that we are forced to leave. Of course, when he is sleepy or teething he acts up, but that is understandable. We comfort him in those situations. But, when he is good we do reward him. I don't know if that is spoiling him, but at least I know he is well behaved.
As for Al. Your situation is like so many others. I am not saying to let her get away with everything but I can tell you from experience that when teenagers rebel it is not really a bad thing. She will grow out of it. When I was in high school, I was a bit rebellious. I pierced my belly button, smoked, had boyfriends, etc. I went to college and joined the Army. I met my husband there and got married. Now, I am out of the service and I have a great job and my parents are proud of me. My husband was similar to me, as well as everyone I knew in high school. Now we are all successful. So, not all rebellious teenagers turn into irresponsible adults.Most of the time they do a complete 360. Talk to her. Tell her how important her education is. She may not listen now, but I guarantee she will realize it when she is in college. I think that disciplining her and punishing her will only make things worse. But, that's just my opinion and my experiences.
D. at 4:11PM on Nov 30th 2007
21. I have 3 children- 18 year-old son, 16 year-old daughter, and 11 year-old son, so I've done and seen it all, plus I have been in pediatric nursing for 27 years and a Girl Scout Leader for 8 years. The worst is my husband's sister, whose goal in life is that her 2 children never be "unhappy." They are consulted on everything - from where the family will eat tonight to where they should buy a house - I'm talking 2 early elementary-age kids here. The end effect of all this is that the kids know they are in control which makes them very insecure. They're thinking "Why are they asking me? I'm only a kid!" True security comes from knowing that loving parents are in charge, not children!
My own children know the meaning of the word "No" much more than their peers. I'm known as the "mean mom," but guess where they all gather? My basement, because they know they will be safe there. I'm all for fun, but I'm strict, and other parents are constantly complimenting me on my kids' good manners. My kids aren't perfect, but they are well-disciplined without being beaten with a belt like I was as a child.
To Melissa D. - it's bad enough that parents can't tell their "no" when they're well, but when they're sick or badly hurt and the parents have no control or influence over their children's behavior it is bad news for everyone! This is a true story - we had a 4 year-old girl who was hospitalized for 10 days because she REFUSED to swallow after a tonsillectomy, not a drop went down her throat. She was getting IV fluids at great cost and risk of acquiring an infection in the hospital. Her parents were POWERLESS to make her drink, and they looked to us, the doctors and nurses, to control her behavior.
Sarah at 4:45PM on Nov 30th 2007
22. I'm surprised that this issue is aimed at GenX Parents. My perception is that Gen X parents or younger parents have an easier time with issues like discipline and holding their children accountable for bad behavior. Based on what I read, it is the baby boom generation that has/had the hardest time administering discipline. Their offspring, the millennials, were raised to believe that everything they ever did was praise worthy. When they go off to school or college it's the teachers and professors who get yelled at when little Ashley gets a C in a class--not Ashley.
I'm a GenXer raising three children and I am not afraid to let them know what my expectations are for their behavior. I don't find it difficult to hand out punishments for bad behavior and I simply refuse to let any of my children be disrespectful to anyone without calling them on it.
With that said, I also show my children how much I love them and how committed I am to their healthy growth and development. I'm not just mom, but I'm also the ballet teacher, the assistant Girl Scout Leader, the chauffer, the book reader, the classroom volunteer and a host of other roles. I listen to them, acknowledge their feelings, let them know how I feel, I show them affection, I praise them (when it's deserved), the list goes on.
I raise them in a similar manner to the way I was raised, with a few exceptions. My kids spoiled? Definitely not. I believe they are on their way to becoming responsible and caring world citizens.
Proud GenXer at 1:41PM on Dec 2nd 2007
23. It's not just the Gen-X folks who are raising brats! The Gen-X parents, themselves, were raised as brats by their baby-boomer parents who read too much Dr Spock; and showered their little Adas, Mo Roccas, Rosies, Conans and Al Frankens with too many trinkets and toys- and not enough chores.
My father was a pre-baby-boom immigrant who never let me forget that there was no novocaine when he was a kid. I pushed lawnmowers before I was as tall as the handles, did roofing, cement and dry wells by age 10... I see bratty people, they're everywhere; they don't even know they're bratty!
Mike at 5:43PM on Nov 30th 2007
24. #2 AL, continue being a positive influence in your daughters life, she is rebeling like most teens do. Give her a little space to grow up, to make mistakes. She will come around...my advice... every time you drop her off at moms tell her you love her and want only the best for her and that your door is always open for her to walk through with any problem. Touch her hand or hold her chin in your hand when you say these words, make eye contact so she can see you are "for real". She will come to expect it (and love it) everytime you drop her off and your words will not leave her. The lip ring thing is just a fad like jeans and tee shirts were in my day, she'll out grow it, dont sweat the small stuff. If your girl really believes you are there for her, no matter what, everything else will eventually fall into place. She will eventually ask for your councel/advice, be patient. Good Luck and GOD Bless you AL.
Mary at 7:21PM on Nov 30th 2007
25. With kids nowadays, their behavior is not simply just a matter of the parent not saying 'no.' Kids nowadays also are not taught a lot of things that affect behavior and how they treat others--which has some correlation to how spoiled one is--such as morals/values and manners. I've noted with disgust that most people under 30 are rude and self-centered, and *I'm* under 30. At the same time, I've noticed with amazement that certain ideas have been hammered into my head that these people seem to never have heard. I attend school with a bunch of people who obviously have never really heard 'no' from their parents, but, in addition, have also never heard any basic rules of life and conducting yourself...including many of the ones relating to self-safety, i.e. don't just walk out into the middle of a street without looking. A lot of us appear to still be confused by that one, even if our mothers explained it to us at age 2. Yes, kids nowadays think highly of themselves, but have very little regard for others in the process.
I also think comment #2 highlights a problem that seems to have grown, i.e. having kids you don't have the foggiest idea what to do with. I have to say this is not always the result of parenting. Sometimes it's your not marrying someone who shares your views on parenting, which people should spend more time evaluating and valuing more...getting married/having kids too soon, and even outside influences. Now that there are so many more laid-back parents and spoiled brats who think the world revolves around them in the world, your good parenting might not be enough for your kids to internalize all the right lessons you've been trying to teach them. After all, most kids spend most of their day WITH the spoiled brats and, worst than that, are hell-bent on being accepted by them. I was just one of the few kids who felt, hey, 1) I could never really be accepted, and 2) acceptance wasn't worth it; I kind of like being a good person. Unfortunately, if you have an average teen or 20-something, they're not going to agree...
nunya at 7:49PM on Nov 30th 2007
26. For Poster #2: Ok, you've established that your ex isn't willing or able to deal with your daughter's issues.
In your shoes, one of the best things you could do for your daughter is to go ahead and set up some counseling sessions. Then, you and your daughter can both go to the sessions together since the ex doesn't seem interested in your child's future. One healthy parent child relationship is better than no healthy parent child relationships. So if your ex won't do right by your daughter, it is still your responsibility as a parent to become involved. You and your daughter cannot change your ex, but you CAN work together to have a healthy supportive father daughter relationship. Looks as though your daughter needs that.
And sixteen is not too late for you to become more involved in your daughter's life and activities, and emotional growth and well-being.
Sydney at 8:46PM on Nov 30th 2007
27. And a note to all --
It so frequently seems that parents forget who's in charge at their house. For whatever reason, they seem to abdicate much of that responsibility to their own children. I have seen parents literally walk around on eggshells so as not to upset their children.
It's ridiculous. A parent's job is to care for their children, to provide for them, and to raise them to be responsible members of society. And it means that there are going to be a number of times when your children aren't going to be happy about your decisions, and that's just too bad. When they reach the workforce, these same kiddos aren't always going to be thrilled about assignments given, or decisions by employers either.
If their parents haven't set a good example in terms of teaching their children good skills for handling the disappointments life throws at them, both personally and professionally, those children will have more difficulty maturing into responsible adults.
Sydney at 8:47PM on Nov 30th 2007
28. I am a strict parent and my daughter who is only 3, gets praised all the time about how well behaved she is and how pleasant she is to be around. We are parents, not friends to our children. That is where so many parents go wrong. They are so afraid that their own children are going to hate them because they say no. Yes, they might hate you for a minute or two, but they get over it.
I have a friend who does not discipline her child and I can't stand to be around him!!! My daughter is afraid of him because he is mean. She doesn't set boundaries and babies him. He is almost 5 and cant talk and is not potty trained. The main reason is because he is in daycare for 8-10 hours a day for 5 days a week, even on her days off he is there.
You have to be consistent with your child and give them boundaries. They really will thank you for that. I am glad my parents were stict with me. They made me the person I am today.
Hope at 9:28PM on Nov 30th 2007
29. you could always seperate and have the government force you to spend $800 to $1500 per month on your child.
The Government says to give them what ever they want!!!!!
J Mitchell at 9:01PM on Nov 30th 2007
30. The biggest thing lacking in today's child-rearing is the teaching of responsiblity and the basis on which to make good, informed decesions. When I was growing up, my parents taught me both of these things. After they divorced and I was alone most of the time at the age of 15, they had already given me the framework with which to function semi-independently. I chose where I went, how much homework to do, etc. Every mess that I got into, which over a short time decreased more and more, it was MY fault and MY responsibility to deal with it. The strain was enormous at first, but I got the hang of it and ended up ten times more responsible than the other people my age. Having to deal with your own messes is an extremely harsh wake up call, and a better form of disipline then taking a cell phone or GASP and iPod away.
gretchen at 9:14PM on Nov 30th 2007