We just ran a story on Babble.com that tackles what for Generation X has become a taboo subject: discipline. Kathryn J. Alexander's "The War on No: Is 'child-centered' parenting producing a generation of brats?" says that the emphasis in recent years on making children feel secure has had an unfortunate consequence: kids who have never heard the word "no," and so who are unprepared for the real, "no"-filled world.
She writes:
It's not just that many American parents are under-parenting by not setting reasonable limits. Paradoxically, we are also over-parenting by making every effort to ensure that our children are not given the opportunity to fail. At the same time, our pediatricians are urging us to cut back on the excessive use of hand sanitizers and antibiotics (kids need exposure to some germs if their immune systems are going to successfully fight the really bad ones), our child development experts are telling us to stop excessively slathering our children with the word "Yes." Our kid's emotional "immune systems" need exposure to life lessons that involve at least the risk of disappointment, failure or emotional turmoil if they are going to be able to withstand the bigger setbacks and losses they will inevitably face in adulthood.
We asked Babble readers if they thought kids today were being spoiled; an amazing 89% said yes.
Do you agree? How do you / did you / would you handle your own kids? We touched on this some last week when the Times reviewed the hardcore early Sesame Street and compared it to the much softer fare serve up to today's kids. And this anti-discipline trend seems to go hand-in-hand with the everyone-wins entertainment.
On the playground, we often see parents explaining in great detail to a two-year-old why he can't run out into traffic while the kid stands there blinking in confusion. Personally, we're very adamant about saying no when it's called for, enforcing a bedtime, sending thank-you notes and all those traditional strict-parent things.
And yet, whenever we brag about how well-behaved our son is, we bring down some kind of cosmic jinx on the house and the next day he's all trying to chase the cats and throw baseballs through the window. So for the cats' sake, we won't say we have it all figured out, but we will say we're whole-heartedly committed to raising a good citizen.
Given the attachment-parenting thrust of the current generation and the emphasis on self-esteem and creativity rather than fairness and maturity, sometimes it seems that creating responsible, capable adults isn't currently all parents' first priority.
Here's that article link again. Tell us what you think in comments!
Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 6)
31. This is almost as stupid as banning spanking in Massachusetts. But basically the same thing- KIDS NEED DISCIPLINE!!!!
Oslo at 4:56PM on Dec 3rd 2007
32. I think that one factor that gets forgotten by folks who criticize today's parents is the very real fears they live with. From drugs to crime,to internet predators,take your pick.From my older point of view the kids seem "organized" with activities,sports etc.ad nauseum.Not to mention constant carpooling,monitoring,just over-parenting in general.And those are just your average working class families, don't get me started on the preregistration of the unborn for the "best"nursery school.
Competition for the best colleges is ferocious,and the worry about that starts before middle school.
So perhaps we should be less judgemental and more concerned about creating a less stressful environment for these children to grow in.
While I applaud the strides in women's careers,the two income family is not always the most beneficial to the children and is very hard on the parents. It breaks my heart to see these tiny tots in daycare,some for over 8 hours a day,they too,are stressed way beyond their ability to cope.So they become "bratty" to some, but to me, they are just a product of tough times.How does a parent today get any quality "parenting" time at all? Maybe we should walk a day in their shoes before we criticize?
emess at 11:02PM on Nov 30th 2007
33. Many of the people who are saying that this child or that child are a 'spoiled brat' need to take a step back and start looking at the child more often.
One temper-tantrum or argument between a parent and a child does not a spoiled brat make. Hell, people tried to call me a 'spoiled brat' when I was young. Was I killing people? No. Was I dealing drugs? No. Was I dishonest? No.
Their problem with me? I loved video games and was always asking my parents respectfully to get the latest video game or to let me rent the latest video game.
The real 'spoiled brats' are the people who are calling other people's children spoiled brats, and usually those troublemaking children are NOT spoiled, in fact they are just the opposite.
I have talked with children in a juvenile jail near where I live, and guess what? Most of them are NOT spoiled at all, in fact they do not have the 'finer things' in a child's life at all, they are jealous, want those things and don't understand why their parents can't get them (I don't understand either) so they act up and join gangs and deal drugs in order to get that money that they think they need (and actually do need).
Christopher at 10:40PM on Nov 30th 2007
34. WOW.. I agree with the comment about the looks that i get when i raise my voice to my 5 year old at the store. Everything is child abuse these days. My 5 year old is Miss Manners and is very polite to EVERYONE. She is a HUGE help and will make a great big sister one day. Its few and far between when we do have to yell. But when we do its usually for something that could have been prevented!! You have to love 5 year olds. This is my FAVORITE age yet!!
I am divorced and her father lives in Philly ( 30 min by plane)Him and I have a GREAT relationship. NO hostile divorce feelings. We are better now that we EVER were married. Strange how that works out!! He flies to see her every weekend and she flies to see him in the summer. Yes a 5 year old Jet setter!! The majority of the time she is here with me and my boyfriend. My BF has 10 years in the Navy and is now in the reserves. He runs a tight ship, NO PUN intended. We will yell at her in public if she acts up. THEN COME THE STARES. She respects him greatly and will obey him when he requests anything. Never out of fear either. My bf is a 170lb Sailor, nothing very scary about a man who wears Cracker Jacks!!! :)
We stick to our guns and she knows that no means no. When she goes away for the weekend and comes back with 300 build a bears and one million Polly Pockets it seems that all our hard work has been washed away. Its " My dad lets me do this and that" WHEW. Then my BF and are back to Square one. After a day back with us, she will wise up and see that her tricks are not working with us. She will still try to slip something in like " In Philly we get to watch two Hannah Montanna's before we go to bed! NOT WORKING!! LOL
We are going to keep doing what we are doing. It seems to be working well. We get massive compliments on how well behaved she is. Even though she has her days!! It just chalk it up to the DNA from her father!!!
XOXXO
Char
Charlene at 4:26PM on Dec 1st 2007
35. I have no problem telling my 4-year old son no, as well as disciplining him. Once, we were in a grocery store, on the way to a friend's house for dinner. When my son kept running off, I told him that if ran off again, we weren't going to have dinner with his friend. He ran off, and we went home.
Our son bawled for an hour, apoligized, and begged to go over for dinner. I held firm, and his behavior was top notch for the next week.
But then, I'm not Generation X. Being a Baby Boomer (age 45) and having parents who grew up during the Depression, I think I have a different outlook than parents in their early and mid 30s.
Kent at 1:02AM on Dec 1st 2007
36. "But when they pass the line, put them back in. I'm not encouraging child abuse by any means, but damn it WHOOP THAT ASS WHEN NECESSARY!"
My mother probably spanked me 10 times in my life, if that many. She says that if she had it to do over, she wouldn't have spanked me at all.
I tell my 4-year-old son that he is a big boy and has to act like one. So, if he misbehaves, I just pick him up and start carrying him, telling him that if he refuses to act like a big boy, then he will be treated as a baby. That works very well.
Kent at 1:03AM on Dec 1st 2007
37. Al - TAKE IT FROM A 16 YR OLD!
I'm sorry about your situation. I think things started to fall apart after your divorce from your wife. I don't know what happened, but divorce is emotionally traumatizing. Let me tell you, she will not tell you this. As teens, COMMUNICATION IS HARD. WE'RE BEING JUDGED EVERYDAY BY OUR PEERS AND ADULTS. Teens everywhere are labeled as "sassy" or "moody" but maybe that's because no one tries to see our point of view. Nobody knows everything that is going through our minds. I believe her lip ring is a sign of insecurity. She believes you won't love her if she does something you don't normally accept. You need to show her that you love her and will love her no matter what she looks like or does. Tell her that you're just concerned about her because you love her too much to see her throwing her life away. Tell her how smart and beautiful you think she is, because she will NEVER hear it enough. NEVER! Especially tell her she looks beautiful when she least expects it. I suggest talking to her everyday. Even is she doesn't feel like talking, stay with her until she is ready to talk. Don't push!!! Just sit there and wait. Try to spend time doing fun things with her. Take her on vacation and go shopping with her. Buy her some new clothes and go out to lunch.And finally, you MUST pray. Prayer is so strong. Go to God and teach her about the Christian faith. Sometimes faith is the only thing that can get you through.
If you have more questions, post it.
God bless.
Elle at 1:27AM on Dec 1st 2007
38. I'm a 57 year old baby boomer. My parents insisted my 3 siblings and I were "spoiled brats." We didn't have our own tv or telephones; they didn't buy us a car when we turned 16; we did not travel to europe during the summer; we didn't perfect our tans lying by the pool,either. Our discretionary income did not come from allowances but from jobs; and attended college on a federal student loan. My neice drives a better car than I've ever owned (she's 18). Besides all the accoutrement essential to survival - plasmas, dvd players, laptops,ipod systems,clothes that can not fit into 2 large bedroom closets - the tech generation far exceeds the spoiled brat moniker given to me. Anyone who exists in a bubble is doomed to learn the hard way. No one is immune from facing the hard facts of life pampered or not pampered.
boredwell at 2:31AM on Dec 1st 2007
39. The out-of-control behavior of most children today is only one facet of a very large, societal problem. Look at the role models our children have today – their parents, their leaders (community & political), the media (even the news, yet alone the likes of Paris or Lindsay.)
Do you think the "adults" you see on a daily basis are well-behaved, considerate, self-disciplined, mature? (And don't think about all the ill-mannered people you may have run into today, try just looking in the mirror. I judge myself the harshest.)
We all make fun of television’s perfect families including The Brady Bunch and Leave it to Beaver but they at least set a standard for us to try to achieve. It may have been a seemingly unreasonable standard but at least there was one. If you tried to reach that level of family behavior you won – period. You didn’t have to reach it, by just trying you were already a better person. Today the “reality” shows try to better each other by showing how low they can sink. For some twisted reason (read advertising) our great society has chosen to believe that these awful actors are worth emulating. One terrible example is the “Jackass show” craze of kids doing humiliating things to themselves and others as if it were status-worthy. Am I the only person that thinks this is repulsive?
I believe one of the largest problems causing the slide of our collective behavior is the utter lack of any respect that exists. People have lost the respect for themselves first and foremost. What ever happened to healthy pride? Pride in self-appearance, pride in family name or family honor, pride in work? If you don’t respect yourself then how can you respect anything or anyone else? That being said, if you can’t teach your children how to be respectful, then why on earth are you surprised when they talk back, act out and behave so very poorly that we have to sit here and write about it.
If I see one more pansy parent tell their kid something and less than 10 seconds later completely contradict what they just said, I’m gonna lose it. If you tell your kids they can’t have the candy bar then don’t give in. If you tell your kids they have to clean their room then mean it. Additionally, set a consequence and execute it. Don’t say what you don’t mean. If you do, your kids will realize you’re a pushover and your word doesn’t mean squat.
You want children to behave better, show them. Give your children something better for them to emulate. Quit trying to be their “friend” (just because you’re going through an emotional crisis and want to be 15 again) and start being the adult parent. I had a moment with my son when he was around 14 (he’s now 21) where I explained to him that I was definitely NOT his friend. His friends might possibly let him make a detrimental decision and that as his father it was my job to teach him well and my duty to keep him safe and healthy. That was the difference between being a friend and a parent. Parents absolutely don’t have the luxury of being popular unless the child respects the parents job.
Bottom line, quit griping about the behavior of the children and fix yourself first. Children are amazing creatures, they so want to learn and emulate. Be a strong, self-disciplined, respectful adult and take one guess what your children will grow up to be. And of course there are exceptions. I’m talking about the majority of today’s children, not the few that need the extra special help. Man up, America.
And thanks for letting me try to say my peace in a few paragraphs.
Shane at 4:42AM on Dec 1st 2007
40. I have a very well behaved son and my sister always wonders why her kids are so well behaved when I watch them. It's easy, give kids enough room that they don't feel stifled but at the same time you set very clear rules on what is and is not acceptable behavior. Once those rules are set you make sure that EVERY TIME one of them is broken there is a consequence. You also should ALWAYS reward good behavior whenever you see it. What I mean by good behavior are things like exceptional politeness, sharing, kindness, ect., I don't mean behavior that isn't bad. The key to all of this of course is being consistant. That's where my sister messes things up. She punishes her kids for doing something one day and then ignores it the next. Rewards them some days for ok behavior and ignores great behavior on other days. It's kind of sad, but who am I to tell her how to raise her kids?
David at 6:10AM on Dec 1st 2007
41. As the mother of a 20 month old, I am constantly trying to find things other than "NO" to say all the time. However, I use "no" and a disapproving sound that seems to get his attention, hand-clapping and "STOP", etc. I have popped his hand several times concerning touching the stove, Christmas tree, etc. when nothing else phased him. I'm very liberal and open-minded, but I cannot abide these bratty, out-of-control kids I see everywhere. We have relatives who told us when their child was 2 that they wanted her to "explore her curiousity" and that they didn't use the word no. As you can imagine, no one can stand to be around those kids! Parents PLEASE set boundaries and DON'T TAKE YOUR KIDS EVERYWHERE! I relish the opportunity to have some adult time out with other adults. Everything is not "about the children". Give the kids something to look forward to when they grow up and are on their own. No baby or small child belongs at PG -R movies, bars, expensive and sophisticated restaurants, concerts, etc. I don't plan to spank my children, but I already use time-outs and plan to enforce taking toys away and other punishments. Don't give into your kids. I already know it's difficult with a screaming, begging, whining little one, but it makes it all worse in the long run.
wornout at 9:13AM on Dec 1st 2007
42. i am a gen x parent of two i think personally coming from a "broken home" of divorce along with a huge percent of my generation there is a sub concious effort to treat our children as best we can so they don't feel our pain. Not saying it's is right just a theory i had nothing as a child and now i am fairly succesful so i try to give my children everything they DESERVE. I have an 8 and a 2 year old my older son is very well behaved but is a very bad sport i refuse to play board games with him because it never ends well sometimes when outside he will ask to race me sometimes i let him win sometimes i don't so he can understsnd defeat and that he won't always win in hopes that he will take losing easier when is grown and the stakes are higher. He has played organized sports for sometime and only recently has he been on teams that keep score and have winners and losers everyone plays equally and they all get trophies when i was 5 i had to try out for little league and kids where cut all my trophie at home where earned i have no participation trophies and this contributes to them not being able to take losing.
guy at 2:05PM on Dec 1st 2007
43. I would just like to point out that it is NOT Gen-X who came up with this whole "Let's not squelch their sense of self" nonsense. The Gen-X parents I know agree with me that it is the group of kids, such as the middle-schoolers I teach, raised by those in-betweeners (are they tail-end Boomers or early Xers?) who have been indoctrinated in the non-reality of "everyone needs to make the team," "it's a TIME OUT for you, young man," "you can't flunk my child!" Those of us who were kids in the 70s tend toward a more practical, old-school approach. My aunt is 50 and I don't think she has ever disciplined either of her children. Her son is now 15 and walks all over her. There is a sense of entitlement that is going to turn these kids into completely dysfunctional child-adults when they hit the harsh realities of life. That's why there are so many "helicopter parents" now, trying to fix all the injustices of the world for their college students. Kids need to be instilled with a sense of respect toward their elders JUST BECAUSE, and they need to understand that there is no contract signed at birth stating that life would be fair. Be kind to others, say please and thank you, and quit waiting for the world to hand you something on a silver platter. I spank my kids when necessary, and I tell them "because I said so!" If they get in trouble at school, instead of mom or dad calling the superintendent screaming "do you know who I AM?" and demanding that the teacher be censured, they know that they are in even bigger trouble at home. We have never let them scream and cry and throw things and ruin everyone's experience in a restaurant. It's called responsible parenting. And I think Gen-Xers are trying to fix the mess the Boomers created for us.
Erika at 10:38AM on Dec 1st 2007
44. Ah, the teenage years. Dad, please help your daughter. She is pleading for attention. As a former teacher, I know that kids will push you until they find out where the parameters are. Show them before they come to the wrong end. Let the hair and piercings go. Ask her not to tattoo until 21.
Let the clothing go too as long as she doesn't look like a prostitute. Focus on HER and the person she is becoming. Be positive. Always tell her that you love her (even though you may not like her at the moment). She needs that. Cook together. It gives you something to do while talking and navigating shaky ground. Be a positive role model. Read, don't smoke or drink.
As for today's parents, I don't know. After teaching for many years, I have learned a few things.
No, you are not their friend, you are their parent. You have a job to do.
Yes, they will scream and embarass you in the store. Keep your chin up and be firm. Stop trying to reason with them. Just say no! Start young
with expectations and rules. Even toddlers can help with laundry. Finally,
Take your child to your house of worship. It will keep you all together and give you strength for times like these. Best wishes. :)
momma bear at 10:56AM on Dec 1st 2007
45. We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.
“Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. ‘Children are an heritage of the Lord’ (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.
“The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.
“We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
Jacob Taylor at 11:35AM on Dec 1st 2007