Is God a Man-Made Invention?

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Is God a Man-Made Invention?

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Posted Dec 2nd 2007 11:22PM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism

On Friday, November 30, I debated philosopher Daniel Dennett at Tufts University on the topic, "Is God a Man-Made Invention?" This was my third debate against a leading atheist, following my debate with Michael Shermer at Oregon State University and my debate with Christopher Hitchens at the Ethical Culture Society in New York. The auditorium at Tufts filled up so quickly prior to the Dennett debate that the organizers had to have a second overflow room where viewers could watch the fireworks on a big-screen TV. (You can watch the full debate here.)

Dennett surprised me a little by showing up with a power-point presentation. I hadn't agreed to this in advance, but I didn't object. I thought to myself, "I'm not sure what advantage slides are going to give him in a format like this one." Dennett spoke first for 25 minutes, and sure enough, he made full use of those slides. He had quotations from me up there, and he challenged me to defend them. I was impressed by Dennett's preparation, and also by his avulcular "grandpa" style, an effect enhanced by his white Santa beard. Atheism is a grim philosophy, but Dennett more than anyone else makes it seem harmless and even charming.

Normally I would use my opening statement entirely to make the case for God's existence. But I didn't want Dennett's allegations to go unrebutted for too long. So I devoted the first five minutes to puncturing some factual and historical holes in Dennett's argument. Then I proceeded to make my case. Of course I conceded that religion is a man-made invention, but I argued that modern science has over the past century produced remarkable discoveries that affirm and support the argument for God's existence. In doing so I recognized that I was challenging Dennett not only on his home campus, Tufts university, but also on his home turf, which is a philosophical atheism rooted in science.

We each had two five-minute rebuttals which produced lively exchanges about the Big Bang and about whether the universe is fine-tuned for life. Then there was a lengthy question-and-answer session. Given that the audience was mostly made up of Tufts students sympathetic to Dennett's atheism, a majority of the questions was directed at me. Most memorable for me was the philosophically-minded savant who pooh-poohed the possibility of God's existence on the basis of what he called the Principle of Parsimony. He argued that either propositions are true by definition, or they are true by empirical verification. If a proposition cannot satisfy either criteria, then it is meaningless. Since God does not exist by definition, the young man insisted, and since we cannot verify His presence empirically, clearly God has been refuted by the Principle of Parsimony.

I asked our undergraduate savant to apply his twofold test to the Principle of Parsimony itself. Is it true by definition? No. Well, can it be verified empirically? Again, no. Therefore by the student's own criteria the Principle of Parismony is worthless and can be cast aside. The student had no comeback to this and neither did Dennett.

So who won the debate? That's for you to decide. You can watch the whole thing here, and then you can cast your vote on the resolution and on who came out on top.

Watch the videos of the debate after the jump.Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

Part 5:

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Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 44)

Previous 15 Comments | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

31. The Goddess Athena,
Why did you have to bring up that issue again? Now for the umpteenth time we're all falling back into the Who-Killed-More-People: Christians vs Atheists Bitchfest 2007. Everyone loses, so let's please get back to topic!

MC Hammer,
The Egyptian Pharaohs were big into revisionism and writing their own version of history. Rameses II wanted people to believe he actually wielded godly powers in battle.

Mokele-Mbembe at 11:21AM on Dec 3rd 2007

32. This just in!!! dd debates the relative merits of the penis monologues, and if young Muslim boys are choosing it over scouting!

WOW! Hard-hitting stuff there from double d.

stuart joshua at 11:24AM on Dec 3rd 2007

33. mc hammer

i watched something on one of the discovery channels or maybe the history channel several months ago that gave a scientific explanation for every one of the plagues you mentioned. i believe it all had to do with volcanic activity. so even if all that stuff actually DID happen, we still can't say that it was absolutely the work of god and could not be explained by nature. just thought you might find that interesting. i'll try doing a search on it so i can figure out exactly what program it was on that way anyone who yells at me about it being crap can research it and decide for themselves.

Richelle at 11:25AM on Dec 3rd 2007

34. "They are the epitome of superstitious as they have great faith in chemical chance and mutational luck"

I think that is the first time I have ever heard someone claim that math=superstition.

a born atheist at 11:29AM on Dec 3rd 2007

35. Brittany:

Well, no, in that I have attended churches, synagogues, a buddhist monestary. I listen to faith programs on the radio, I even sometimes watch that stuff on TV. I have a bible, and have read it cover to cover.

Of course, every thing I know, I learned. That is true of all humans (except for a few instincts as an infant, like rooting, sucking, or bicycle legs).

But as has been mentioned numerous times already, it was not done in the name of atheism. Atheism is simply no belief in a god or gods.

Frankly, it has been shown that children of a certain age are easily indoctrinated by adults. It is during the 'magical thought' years (3-7 or so) when they also believe in Santa and Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.

I was not indoctrinated with anything. My dad was a recovering catholic, my mother a recovering jew, and we were told that we could find out for ourselves what god and/or religion was about.

Linda at 11:32AM on Dec 3rd 2007

36. The most convincing argument for man having created god is that the god of the bible knew no more about the world he supposedly created than the people he was god of. Not just the flat earth and domed sky and four pillars, but the idea that bats are birds, that rabbits chew cud and that there is a creature of earth with four legs and a pair of wings is enough.

The god of the old testament seems to be long on strength and short on judgment and wisdom. Many times his prophets have to restrain and advise him. In Jeremiah he becomes a mass murderer, and of course he's a mass murderer in genesis too - drowns the entire world, not one tear shed for all the dead babies.

Clif Kuplen at 11:40AM on Dec 3rd 2007

37. To Linda re: Post #8...
I was never indoctrinated...my family never went to church. As a matter of fact, while we are officially some religion, I'm not even sure which form of Christian, my family never had me baptised because they wanted me to be able to decide for myself what I wanted to accept. Yet I believe in a deity.

Though I do agree that churches, on a whole are definitely on the grounds of indoctrination. But of course they always have been. How else would they continue to have churchgoers? In my opinion, the christian church has lived out it's usefulness, i.e. the original use of reading the bible to the masses and explaining what it means.

I'm still puzzled over the focus against Christianity by atheists and not all religions equally, which are all equally false and ridiculous by your definitions.

Strados at 11:40AM on Dec 3rd 2007

38. Every person has his own self created God. Even Christians have their own versions of christianity hence so many different denominations. God is what you conceive him to be. A lot depends on where you were born and into which family or tradition you were born. Would Billy Graham or Pat Robertson be the fanaticial christians they are if they had been born in China or say India? I would guess not. Religion is almost for the most part an inherited trait, if for no other reason than out of respect for your parents. The golden rule is everybodys core religion it just seems that it gets pushed behind all of the other rituals and rites of the particular branch of religion you have taken up with. That to me is the biggest pitfall of religious belief. The diversity, the differences causes disrepect for the other views of God outside of your own which cause people to do terrible things to each other because they lose sight of the basic golden rule. We adhere too closely to our specific branch and allow nationalism to predominate over our religious beliefs.

Rick at 11:43AM on Dec 3rd 2007

39. Richelle,

Thanks! I googled it and that makes a lot of sense that an unexplainable phenomenon to them (a volcanic erruption and the ensuing "plagues") would be percieved as the work of god.

I see a lot of people saying god is different for everyone and what he means to you, etc. Wouldn't that make it more of a logical argument that god is, in fact, man-made because people mold him to better suit their feelings on a supreme being?

MC Hammer at 11:52AM on Dec 3rd 2007

40. ATHEIST

Dinesh didn't think a slide show... where the audience could read his EXACT words... would help Dennett win the debate?

That's about what I expected from him.

William Hays at 11:58AM on Dec 3rd 2007

41. Agnostic, here. Leaning towards athiesm, but still open to the possibility of a creator kicking this whole thing off.

I think the god (oh, excuse me: G-d)that most beleivers speak of is definitely man-made. You know the one I'm talking about: the one that has a deep need to be worshipped and admired, the one that punishes those who don't believe in him during their 70 or so years on earth with an eternity in some place called hell, the one who had a mutiny among his angels and sent the bad ones down to hang with us, etc.

THAT god is man-made.

Actually, any god who has a book, any god who anyone thinks they know anything about, they are ALL man-made.

FL Chick at 11:58AM on Dec 3rd 2007

42.
The debate was whether God was a man made invention. Dennett pointed to the reasons as to why it's a man made concept, where D'Souza pointed to unanswered scientific questions as proof of god.

Dennett pointed to the island where American troops landed, and the natives saw the airstrip they built, the cargo dropped were seen as the natives as godlike, and today have ceremonies and recreations. All Dinesh could say, was that most people throughout history have believed in something, therefore, god exists. Dinesh made a big presentation of the "scientific dials" - that's proof of intelligence being behind the universe.

Humans have the ability to create concepts that are humanity encompassing, yet unreal. Consider economics; there was a time when you could only get something if you had something else to give for it. Then, we came up with a system which "official" objects could be used for trade. The strength of these objects are dependent on numerous factors, the strength of the state issuing them, strength of trade, availability of goods, priority of goods.....

Those peices of paper in your wallet have no real value other than the value we collectively give them. Whether you shovel animal excrement, or write opportunistic books, those pieces of paper rule your life. It's extremely important not to have animal excrement everywhere, as we could all get sick and die from the diseases contained in them. Opportunistic books are opinions aren't necissary for anything, yet the compensation of either make no sense. Saving people from burning buildings should make you more valuable than standing in front of a camera, and pretending to be someone else.

Lines on other pieces of paper say where you can be, and what you can do there. If I "own" land, you can't come on it unless I say so, and can tell you to go somewhere else if i don't like what your doing, saying, or if I just don't like you. However, the federal government, state, county and city can limit what I can do with what I supposedly own, and I can or can't do there. I'm responsible for what I do with the land, but not if the land itself causes death or property damage.

God is no different than economics, justice or land ownership, or any other incredibly complex concepts we come up with. We didn't create the scientific laws that Dinesh used so heavily in his arguments; they are the result of observation of how objects behave given the environment they are in - I may not agree with busting my arse for a few sheets of paper, but the environment of the economic concept leaves me few options.

Ken at 12:03PM on Dec 3rd 2007

43. FL Chick,
I'm about where you are. I don't believe in the man-made gods, but am open to any explanations of what kick-started the universe, and where the makeup of intangible things like consciousness, purpose, choice, and fate comes from.

Mokele-Mbembe at 12:07PM on Dec 3rd 2007

44. The human race is a God-made invention. God also created evolution.

Our spirits are eternal, outliving the bodies.

Embrace the mystery and keep on chasing the truth, the most exhilarating race of all, and part of being human.

Renee Marie Vetter at 12:14PM on Dec 3rd 2007

45. http://www.blogger.com/profile/12035154863082161363

Self-deluded idiot.

ekhnaton1 at 12:14PM on Dec 3rd 2007

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