On Friday, November 30, I debated philosopher Daniel Dennett at Tufts University on the topic, "Is God a Man-Made Invention?" This was my third debate against a leading atheist, following my debate with Michael Shermer at Oregon State University and my debate with Christopher Hitchens at the Ethical Culture Society in New York. The auditorium at Tufts filled up so quickly prior to the Dennett debate that the organizers had to have a second overflow room where viewers could watch the fireworks on a big-screen TV. (You can watch the full debate here.)
Dennett surprised me a little by showing up with a power-point presentation. I hadn't agreed to this in advance, but I didn't object. I thought to myself, "I'm not sure what advantage slides are going to give him in a format like this one." Dennett spoke first for 25 minutes, and sure enough, he made full use of those slides. He had quotations from me up there, and he challenged me to defend them. I was impressed by Dennett's preparation, and also by his avulcular "grandpa" style, an effect enhanced by his white Santa beard. Atheism is a grim philosophy, but Dennett more than anyone else makes it seem harmless and even charming.
Normally I would use my opening statement entirely to make the case for God's existence. But I didn't want Dennett's allegations to go unrebutted for too long. So I devoted the first five minutes to puncturing some factual and historical holes in Dennett's argument. Then I proceeded to make my case. Of course I conceded that religion is a man-made invention, but I argued that modern science has over the past century produced remarkable discoveries that affirm and support the argument for God's existence. In doing so I recognized that I was challenging Dennett not only on his home campus, Tufts university, but also on his home turf, which is a philosophical atheism rooted in science.
We each had two five-minute rebuttals which produced lively exchanges about the Big Bang and about whether the universe is fine-tuned for life. Then there was a lengthy question-and-answer session. Given that the audience was mostly made up of Tufts students sympathetic to Dennett's atheism, a majority of the questions was directed at me. Most memorable for me was the philosophically-minded savant who pooh-poohed the possibility of God's existence on the basis of what he called the Principle of Parsimony. He argued that either propositions are true by definition, or they are true by empirical verification. If a proposition cannot satisfy either criteria, then it is meaningless. Since God does not exist by definition, the young man insisted, and since we cannot verify His presence empirically, clearly God has been refuted by the Principle of Parsimony.
I asked our undergraduate savant to apply his twofold test to the Principle of Parsimony itself. Is it true by definition? No. Well, can it be verified empirically? Again, no. Therefore by the student's own criteria the Principle of Parismony is worthless and can be cast aside. The student had no comeback to this and neither did Dennett.
So who won the debate? That's for you to decide. You can watch the whole thing here, and then you can cast your vote on the resolution and on who came out on top.
Watch the videos of the debate after the jump.Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:
Part 5:
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Is God a Man-Made Invention?
Posted Dec 2nd 2007 11:22PM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Science, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 6 of 44)
76. William, I am reading right out of the bible before I respond. It is in my hand! What you refer to in your previous post about the stars coming after is not what it says! What version are you quoting from?
Brittany at 1:44PM on Dec 3rd 2007
77. Dinesh, you clearly won this debate. Most of the you tube-commenters and blog-viewers are just commending Dennett for articulating an atheist point of view; which was delivered by a respectable, obviously intelligent, academic.
If you were ask to define what it means to “win” a debate you clearly were the victor here. You were debating in front of a largely atheist audience, put on my an atheist club, against a well-known atheist apologetic. The students came not to consider all beliefs but most likely expected Mr Dennett to make a fool of you which clearly wasn’t the case. These students and 15 yr old youtubers have never heard a well-argued articulate viewpoint from a Christian perspective. Mr Dennett’s presentation was probably just saved from his weekly lectures. Most everyone there has probably heard what he has said before. But you really engaged the students minds and challenged them on their beliefs which only receive affirmation and acceptance at the modern day university.
You will never have an “enlightened” atheist congratulate a person of faith for winning a debate over beliefs so don’t expect many honest answers from your polls and comments. If you consider the grand scheme of things you have offered a straightforward thought-provoking perspective to many of these young people who have never heard one before.
Despite your criticism, which is mostly from those who ONLY listened to Dennett’s point of view, you’ve succeeded in bringing a new outlook on modern-day faith and life’s unanswered questions.
Bob P. at 1:47PM on Dec 3rd 2007
78. the narrator of Genesis that you refer to is believed to be Moses.
Brittany at 1:50PM on Dec 3rd 2007
79. Jeez, Bob.
Plenty of people were listening to DD's points. It didn't help that he had to yell to get them out.
Linda at 1:52PM on Dec 3rd 2007
80. Brittany; In post #73, you make the point that the bible shouldn't be taken literally better than any of us could. "What version are you quoting from?"
Ryan Anderson at 1:55PM on Dec 3rd 2007
81. ATHEIST
Moses? Are you joking? In the text, it talks about the funeral of Moses.
No, I'm serious. Get out a pencil and paper and write down what happened on each of the seven days of creation.
On Day Three, there were trees bearing fruit on the surface of the earth.
Then, there was a night. The purpose of the night is to make it clear what happened first, and what happened later. If everything had happened on the same day, it would be confusing.
But, the writer uses a literary device of separating the time into yoms, or "days."
On Day Three, trees are bearing fruit on earth.
Then, a night. Then, on Day Four, the stars are MADE.
Brittney, please don't feel you need to explain things to me. You've got some info that you picked up in a church or christian fellowship... and most of it is WRONG.
The Book of Genesis is a composite. Several different texts were edited together and written on a single scroll... because scrolls were expensive.
It only made sense to put ALL the Creation myths on a single scroll. And, ALL the Flood accounts.
Trying to decide where the different myths came from is... like crossword puzzles for biblical scholars.
The more you know about the Bible... the less credible it is.
Christianity... as Dinesh pointed out... counts on people being Dim.
William Hays at 2:03PM on Dec 3rd 2007
82. Ryan, William is taking the literal meaning of the bible as the basis for his position. I am merely using is own weapon. I am using the Tyndale New Living Translation (second edition).
Brittany at 2:09PM on Dec 3rd 2007
83. 76. the narrator of Genesis that you refer to is believed to be Moses.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Not by everyone.
You might be interested in the secular scholarship regarding first, the existence of Moses v. Ahmose and the exodus of the jews v. the expulsion of the Hyksos.
Google Santorini while you're at it if you're interested in some of the history.
Next, you might want to do a search on the words elohist, jehovist, priestly and deuteronomist regarding 'mosaic' law.
It doesn't hurt to know where secular scholarship aligns with the bible and where it doesn't. If it's all on faith anyway, I mean.
Clif Kuplen at 2:05PM on Dec 3rd 2007
84. In 1936, P.J. Wiseman wrote a book entitled New Discoveries About Genesis. Wiseman seems to have found the key that unlocks the details of authorship of Genesis. His thesis is that there are several internal clues in Genesis that reveals how it was written; and that the actual authors of Genesis were Adam, Noah, the sons of Noah, Shem, Ishamel, Isaac, Esau, Jacob and Joseph; That the authors other than Joseph, probably wrote in cuneiform on clay tablets; and that Moses, utilizing these records, with the "wisdom of the Egyptians" that he learned in Egypt, was the redactor or EDITOR OF GENESIS RATHER THAN ITS AUTHOR!
Wiseman says that every time we see the phrase "This is the book of the generations of...", that the NAME in that phrase is most likely the AUTHOR AS WELL!
Wiseman by internal evidence suggests that Genesis was written on a series of clay tablets
Brittany at 2:11PM on Dec 3rd 2007
85. William, you are merely making the point I made earlier. When I refute your arguement you decide to call me "dim". I have never called you names, I am merely using the text you are using as your arguement as a means of countering your point. Now, if you would like to tell me why you arrived on your position without misquoting the bible then go ahead.
Brittany at 2:11PM on Dec 3rd 2007
86. bob
i have to disagree with you. i believe dennett won the debate and i did listen to both sides. i believe dennett's proposal of teaching facts about religion to promote religious tolerance was a great idea. especially considering the ethnic and religious diversity in this country. dennet then asked dinesh what he thought and dinesh used that as an opportunity to say "okay well that means we could teach them ABOUT ALL THE TERRIBLE THINGS ATHEISTS HAVE DONE!" he didn't even address the concept itself. and you think that using red herrings to distract from the original point is good argumentation? maybe the reason so many people on youtube and on this blog think he lost is because they do not appreciate him trying to pass of fallacious arguments as intellectual debate.
Richelle at 2:13PM on Dec 3rd 2007
87. Clif, I will certainly research this. Thank you, this is what I have been asking for all day.
Brittany at 2:13PM on Dec 3rd 2007
88. Careful, Mr. Hays, your letting your bible teaching get away from you. Just as I have stated in the past their are really no atheists our there. There are probably a lot of you people who have walked away from God but, no atheist. Mokele, you need to tell it like it is down go posting the bible like you want it to be. You of all should know that one won't fly. Linda, hope you had a good weekend seems, like your a little fiesty today. Mr. D'Souza is really stepping on some toes, well good for him. Anything, that will get you people thinking about the possibility that perhaps you are jungled up in your thoughts then more the power to Mr. D. Mr. Hays perhaps you would really like to explain what happen to MOSES, you know and I know but, you won't go into that one cause you and I both know where you are coming from. Go on with your fairy tales and tell us about how we are wrong but, you know in your heart who is really wrong in this instanc. HUM? I would venture to say that three-fourths of you guys, after reading your blogs, just made the decision to walk away from GOD. Something or someone in your life has completely discouraged you and instead of running to our heavenly father you opt out and ran the other way. Do I see a show of hands. Okay, just blog away. Rita
Rita at 2:43PM on Dec 3rd 2007
89. Actually no Richelle, Dinesh said that he thought it was a good idea he just didn't want Dennett doing the teaching. In fact, Dinesh said he was in agreement with the proposal in the beginning of the debate but he thought it was flawed.
Brittany at 2:15PM on Dec 3rd 2007
90. I was at the debate and blogged about it here:
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archive/2007/12/does-god-exist-a-debate/
From a debating standpoint, Dinesh gave an inspiring performance.
Solomon at 2:16PM on Dec 3rd 2007