1. Agreed (with the author of the article).

Doug Ivison at 1:41PM on Dec 7th 2007

2. Come on big guy. The CIA said they destroyed the tapes to preserve the identify of the CIA agents conducting the interrogation.

Lets be honest, with guys like you and Robert Novak out there (remember Valerie Plame?)the names of these CIA agents would be broadcast all over the world...again, and again..and again.

So the CIA did the right thing. Maybe not for you and Robert Novak since you don't have CIA agents names to expose to the world.

Willet at 2:01PM on Dec 7th 2007

3. You guys are something else - the "spooks" are at it again. I used to work for a CIA cover company, and, as usual you are giving the Company way too much credit. You been watching too many movies. Usually da' boys have trouble pulling off what they get off the launching pad as it is. Trouble funding any operation is a headache. Money gets fed through a tube out of DC down a winding curve of bends and twists and you get your milk out of a laundramat in Las Vegas or something.
You can't have it both ways: one minute the agency can't find it's rear-end in the dark with both hands, next, it's the super-bad guy behind the bedroom door waiting to pounce on our freedoms.
If you only knew. Usually, when I was involved it was filled with middle aged white guys with brush cuts, overweight with high blood pressure and bad hearts.

Roger Fulton at 4:47PM on Dec 7th 2007

4. Did Aljazeera destroy the beheading tapes of Nicholas Berg?

Rich at 2:45PM on Dec 7th 2007

5. What is it with Republicans and tapes? Remember Richard Nixon - oh, that was just a 15 minute "gap."
Now they have taken to just destroying them.

David S. at 2:49PM on Dec 7th 2007

6. From your column: "Paul Mirengoff and John Hinderaker, on the other hand, were more than happy to trust the government, as is their nature (as long as the government is a Republican one)."

And why aren't we mentioning the abuses of the Democratic Party years? I'm sure the (dead) people at Waco would have something to say. Heck, it was only burning down a church with people inside it. Or Randy Weaver's wife (dead) and son (dead) would have something to say. The State of Oregon still wants the HRT shooter on murder charges for that one. Janet Reno blocked it.

You'll win my respect when you mention that both the Republicans and Democrats tend to abuse power. The Republicans forgot why they got elected, and that's why they lost both houses of Congress, and will probably lose the Presidential Election.

Thanks, Dave

David at 3:43PM on Dec 7th 2007

7. Are we Americans or Lemmings? I ask becuase we seem bent on destroying ourselves. First we put all Bush's cards on the talbe by releasing a report that says Iran stopped building a nuke four years ago. (a nuke they insist they never tried to build) Virtually, we handed Russia and China a reason not to support more sanctions and presure on Iran. With one report we gave Iran all the cover it needs, and we tied the hands of our own government in the process. And, we did this knowing Iran is enriching uranium and developing the missiles to deliver a bomb. We are cutting off our nose to spit our face ... it makes no sense at all.

Now, we are trying to paint the CIA as a bigger enemy than Al Qeada. The CIA had good reason to destroy this tape. First, it protects agents that were doing nothing but acting on orders. Liberals took the Plame incident very seriously ... so why no concern for these agents? They seem not only willing but anxious to out these agents.
I don't understand this at all. I'm tried of defending our nation against our own citizens. At this point, I'd much prefer Hillary as president ... as it is far easier to throw bombs at her and not worry about our nation ... kind of like what's happening today between Bush and liberals.

Thomas J Gassett at 3:59PM on Dec 7th 2007

8. For more than 25 years I was a conservative with principles. I voted in every election from Nov. 1980 - just after I turned 18- until today. 90% of my votes were cast for the GOP candidate. Maybe I still am a principled conservative , and maybe that's why I will in no way, shape or form support or vote for any Republican candidate in the foreseeable future. My dismay began several years ago when a Bush admin. official said the reason troops in Iraq lacked armored vehicles was because there were all sorts of rules and bidding procedures that would have to be changed to speed the process and - for lack of a better term - changing the process would be really inconvenient. The final nail in the coffin was this destruction of interrogation tapes because they claimed it would compromise the identity of the interrogators. Do they really think we are so stupid that we've never seen nude people on TV with their private parts obscured digitally, or heard interviews where a voice is digitally altered so as to be unrecognizable? I will no longer be played a fool by these people. If you want to lie to me, at least put some thought into it. Don't keep pissing on my head and telling me it's raining.

DJ Ambrose at 4:28PM on Dec 7th 2007

9. No -- the Padilla tapes have not been destroyed, nor is it likely now they will be. A set of the tapes (yes,with one -- the last missing) were given to the defense in the Padilla case. Which means there has to be three sets of tapes -- one (the Master) at the Department of Defense who had overall supervision of the torture at the Naval brig in Charleston, the second set of tapes reside at the Justice Department, with the last set of tapes with defense attorneys.

However, Federal Court Judge Marcia Cooke has taken extraordinary steps to threaten the loss of license to practice law should any attorney allow them to be seen or leaked to the press. Nor would Judge Cooke permit any substantive testimony before the jury about the torture from highly qualified witnesses who were prepared to testify that Padilla indeed has been driven crazy.

Should anyone doubt that Padilla has been driven crazy during his 3 1/2 years of isolation and sensory deprivation and questioning drive one insane, one only need consult the book, "A question of Torture: CIA Interrogation From The Cold Wat to the War on Terror" by Alfred W. McCoy, a chaired professor of history at the University of Wisconsin. The book cites many instances where only 24 hours of this kind of torture symptoms of insanity.

But the tapes exist and are out there. It will be far more difficult those, say, at the Department of Defense as well as those at the Department of Justice to destroy the tapes. They would likely be subject to their public careers being destroyed unlike the CIA torturers who carry on their trade in the shadows. (As well they should.)

Lewis Z. Koch at 12:17PM on Dec 8th 2007

10. Of course they destroyed the tapes. In the hands of liberals the tapes could probably be used to undo the entire CIA organization! Why do you concern yourselves with what happened in 2002 instead of the present? The CIA does some shady shit, its in the job description, they know what their doing so why don't we leave the interrogation to the professionals and the politics to the politicians? What if the CIA started investigating the bribery and numerous other illicit activities that goes on in the Congress or election campaigns? Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are not free from political sin either, they just have the closet-searching liberals on their side.

Parker at 5:02PM on Dec 7th 2007

11. DJ Ambrose- You have just been watching too much TV. The liberal tilt can be found everyday. For example, the armored vehicles you discussed were part of a budget the president planned on passing in Congress; however, when the democrats were done editing it they had thrown into the bill, along with the millions of dollars to Iraq, millions more to aid peanut farmers in the west and to go to other, as random and useless, causes. The ridding of these stupid and unnecessary expenditures took weeks. This goes to show that you can either listen to the news and have them bury your head in the sand, or you can find the facts yourself. Initially, you stated that the government had been misleading... who now seems to be misleading?
Just thought you should hear some of what you do not in the news before you go denouncing the republican party.

Parker at 5:12PM on Dec 7th 2007

12. #5 - David - Good point. Wrong is wrong. You did not fall into the trap of trying to prove who is worse and I thank you for that.

Cenk -
-------------------------------------------------
It's almost as if you shouldn't blindly trust what your government tells you. It's almost as if our whole constitution is built on the premise that you shouldn't blindly trust your government.
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You should have left "almost" out. Our founding fathers set up checks and balances to help limit the power of the federal government.

alan at 5:50PM on Dec 7th 2007

13. Are we all that innocent that we could possibly doubt that the CIA, FBI and other Federal Agencies that are supposed to UPHOLD the laws of this country would never do something like this? Give me a break power given to the wrong people will never disappoint us in their deceit and arrogance. Look at J.Edgar Hoover, played the Proper Gentleman judging all that he presumed wrong, yet in private dressed in women's clothing, then Roosevelt, married to his COUSIN, cheated on her lied about his ill health but was an amazing President. Then we had JFK who so many have made the model of America, he had a revolving door in and out of White House with his various liasons all under the watchful eye of the CIA FBI etc. Get my drift, our government is so corrupt, so arrogant that no matter what WE THE PEOPLE THINK they will do what they want, I'm sure there has been many important documents "lost" out of convenience, some think the Cabinet like in Lincoln's case, helped assinate Kennedy, how would we know, the shredding machine was still running. Surprised, I'd be more surprised if they weren't so ILLEGAL

Janet Cangialosi at 7:41PM on Dec 7th 2007

14. Parker,

I follow news, politics and world events with an intensity like nothing else. With the exception of reading the Times, nearly every source of news I digest is from a conservative viewpoint. I have no use for the nonsense dished out by much of the media; and it's not the bias that bothers me half as much as the fact it's presented at about a third-grade intellectual level.

As for my other post, I know I’m just one vote and my loss to the GOP is insignificant, yet I have a suspicion it portends something bigger.

In regards to your response, I simply don’t agree with your premise that blame for an under-equipped military during a time of war can lie with a partisan obstructionist congress. It’s one thing when, during peace time, the partisan back and forth bickering in Washington is about issues like pork barrel spending, ideological attacks and claims of moral superiority by both parties…not to mention all the time wasted passing nonsensical laws such as the federal “Hate Crimes” law which gives federal law enforcement officers the ability to arrest and prosecute a suspect…that is, as long as the suspect was motivated by their hatred of the victim…and the victim belongs to one of the specific groups considered worthy of protection by lawmakers….oh yeah, one more thing; the victim pretty much has to be in the process of voting (a federally protected act) while attacked for the fed’s to have any jurisdiction.

But everything changes - and the absurd ceases to be humorous - during a time of war. When the President chose to wage war in Iraq, and I don’t question his motives, he sent the nations best and bravest young men and women, volunteers all, into harms way. Which is even more remarkable, considering many of these soldiers and Marines are mere teenagers, fighting a difficult fight on the other side of the world, scenes and thoughts of death now mingled with still fresh memories of graduation parties, sweethearts and high school proms.

We all knew and accepted that there would be casualties, it is a simple and undeniable truth of warfare; the one constant from the time when battles were waged with rocks and spears to the present, when unmanned aircraft are capable of waging war, their pilots thousands of miles from the battlefield.

When a person first decides to run for president, the most powerful position in the world, they must accept and even embrace the awesome responsibility that comes with the office. And if they then choose to wage war and send troops into harms way as President Bush did, they better be damn sure that not a single soul is lost because the greatest nation the world has ever known - man's last best hope as Mr. Lincoln so aptly put it - had the technology, the wherewithal, the know-how and the means to provide her soldiers with the best of everything they needed to minimize their inevitable casualties...but failed to do so.

President Bush is the Commander In Chief, the Chief Executive Officer of the nation. There are no acceptable excuses, no passing the buck rationales or pointing of fingers at congress or anyone else that should be tolerated from the President. It is beneath the dignity of the office He is in command; that makes the well being of every single man and woman serving in the armed forces his responsibility. Period. And that is probably my biggest issue with the President. If the Captain of an aircraft carrier, someone who commands over 5000 sailors and Marines was asleep in his bunk and – through no fault of his – a junior officer runs the ship aground he will, not he might or he may, he will be relieved and lose his command of his ship. The President is obviously of the belief that his being at the top of the chain of command allows him to be held to a lower standard of responsibility and accountability than those who serve under him.

One of the proudest moments of my life was when, shortly after my last birthday as a teenager, I took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America. And I didn’t have a single doubt in my mind that then President Reagan had my back just as much as the guy standing next to me, regardless of his lame reasons for avoiding combat during the second world war. For some perspective, I’ll leave you with this; regardless of anything I’ve said I challenge you to justify any defense of the President you may have when compared with this piece of not-so-distant history. 66 years ago my grandmother and a bunch of untrained housewives, college girls and moms walked into factories around the nation and during the ensuing four years the fruits of their labor filled the Atlantic and Pacific oceans with battleships, aircraft carriers and destroyers, they also filled the skies with tens of thousands of fighter planes and bombers and made the equipment that armed, clothed and fed the armies of the free world as they fought and won a two-axis world war. And none of this couldn’t even begin until the nations non-military industrial assets were converted from typewriter and tractor factories to tank, firearm and fighter plane factories

In the same amount of time it took to accomplish everything I just mentioned, I believe we've built and delivered 1300 upgraded armored vehicles to the soldiers and Marines in Iraq. That isn’t liberal propaganda, it's the truth. And it’s a disgrace.

DJ Ambrose at 1:58AM on Dec 8th 2007

15. And none of this couldn’t even begin until the nations non-military industrial assets were converted from typewriter and tractor factories to tank, firearm and fighter plane factories

xxx

If something similar happened now we'd have to convert chinese factories, and in the event of a shooting war, it could easily be with the very same country.

And we'd have to raise taxes to fund it like in every war in history but this one..or keep borrowing it from the same chinese. Making money just isn't worth that kind of gamble.

xxxx

In the same amount of time it took to accomplish everything I just mentioned, I believe we've built and delivered 1300 upgraded armored vehicles to the soldiers and Marines in Iraq. That isn’t liberal propaganda, it's the truth. And it’s a disgrace.

xxxxxxxxx

There is absolutely no way to spin that. Brilliantly said.

It also reminded me of the army shunning Trophy for the Raytheon anti RPG system that hit developmental glitches and was at best regarded as inferior to Trophy. I don't think it's been delivered yet.

Even without questioning the legitimacy of the war, this should be unconscionable by any administration.

Where's the republican outrage? Dissociated, I guess, projected on the democrats. No matter what happens, they will never think they have enough power. They'll always demand more.

As to destruction of tapes, the excuses were beyond lame, as though the interrogators features couldn't be depixellated.

If we, the democrats and expatriate republicans work in a little together toward shifting the country back to center, these same republicans may later feel it's safe to reenter their party, but right now it's both toxic and radioactive.

Weird, but the democratic party is becoming bipartisan within it's own ranks. DJ, it sounds like a matter of conscience to you. It certainly is for me. I hope we can work together to take our country back.

Clif Kuplen at 3:29AM on Dec 8th 2007