76. Golly, OKANE, do you suppose the attitude you and your fellow travelers have expressed is one of the reasons women are afraid to report rapes?

Captain Negative at 5:24PM on Dec 12th 2007
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Absolutely right on!!

So many times the victim is portrait as a loose woman, or she asked for it. Or...or...or..!!!

Shameful!!

Lilly at 12:50PM on Dec 13th 2007

77. 28. Patty - What is so hard to understand about the idea that Iraq was a nightmare before we got there?
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Dave: There is nothing hard about understanding how Iraq was a nightmare before we got there! That's not news and that has nothing to do with this topic. However, I think the correct question here is, why are so many of us so concern about Iraq and their well-being all of the sudden? You know and everyone knows that,we as Americans never gave a rat's behind about the Iraqis and we still don't. That is not the reason we went there in the first place, either. 9/11 is not the reason, but a damn good excuse for the LIARS!!


And no one is "raping" the country except for the Batthists and insurgents and al Queda who are running around Iraq creating mayhem.
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Okay Dave, and who do the Iraqis have to thank for, for that?? I know Saddam was a horrible man, hell we all know that. We also know that there was no Al Queda in Iraq before we invaded that country. We also know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and yet....here we are 7 years later, Mission Accomplished, right!!And what Mission would that be?

If our soldiers and marines are caught killing or raping Iraqis, they can go to military prison for 20 years and a few have already been convicted.
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As they should be, if they comminted a crime. So, we is it that the lawqs do not apply to the Contractors? All those No-Bid Cronie-contractors.

Bush overthrew a tyrant who was committing genocide.
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How nobel of him!! Tyrant or no Tyrant we had no business there, we were not asked for help and we did not go there to save Iraqis. We went there, because the man you are hell-bent on supporting lied to us, and he continues to lie to us. And our soldiers continue to die because of his lies. PERIOD!

Excuse me, but that is not raping a country.
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Okay it's not raping a country. It's tearing it appart. And I'm sorry I did not make my self clear. I was actually speaking about Bush and raping our Nation. By dividing us Americans like no other president, by trying to destroy our Constitution, by taking away a lot of our civil libirties, by spying on us. The list goes on Dave!!!
And if the Islamofascists are able to attack us again in a big way, every civil right we've ever had will be gone in a heartbeat, because we're going to martial law, no matter who the President is.
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We have already LOST a lot of our CIVIL RIGHTS, without having been attacked. Man the conservatives call the Democrats cowards... Dave life as we knew it has changed forever, so I'm sure it's not "IF", it's when, the next time. But, are we to stop being Americans, are we to stop being brave and honorable? Again, and you call us cut and runners and weak. Okay.....

And again, selective moral outrage.
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Nothing selective here Dave, just the facts!


Clinton can have 1000 FBI files, allow sale of nuclear targeting technology to China in exchange for campaign contributions, be credibly accused of rape, have his former National Security Advisor stuffing classified docs into his socks and much much more and that's all OK, I guess....
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Dave we can exchange the horrible things our politicians do, till the cows come home. So are you saying that because Clinton did something wrong. It's okay for others to do it now. And we can look away. But, we could not look away when Clinton got a BJ. So the Republican Party and Kenneth Starr went after him, spent ove $65million dollars I believe. When it was all said and done the man still had over 68% approval by the American people. I know what he did was wrong. You on the other hand can't even face what this clown has done to our country.

1) Taking us to war based on lies.
2) Destroying Vidio Tapes.
3) Telling the American people and the world, "The USA does not toture.
4) Caging American citizens in Democratic districts so they could not vote.
5) Firing Federal Attorneys (Republican Attorneys) because they would not play dirty games.
6) Shooting a friend in the face (I do ralize it was an accident), not reporting it and the VICTIM apologized to DICK!
7) Outing a CIA Agent!

Dave at 12:15AM on Dec 12th 2007

Let's not loose sight on the issue here. A young woman was raped. Nothing has been done about it. Do you think anything will happen to Halliburton, company of DICK CHANEY???

Patty at 7:02PM on Dec 13th 2007

78. Hey Dave:)

I had a feeling I would not hear back from you.

Patty at 12:46PM on Dec 14th 2007

79. "Let's not loose sight on the issue here. A young woman was raped. Nothing has been done about it. Do you think anything will happen to Halliburton, company of DICK CHANEY???"



Patty at 7:02PM on Dec 13th 2007


Uhh Dumb Dumb Patty. What about this: In 1998 Halliburton's total revenue was 14.5 billion, which included $284 million in Pentagon contracts. In the following two years,(Clinton Administration) Halliburton's DOD contracts more than doubled, including a no bid contract from Clinton for the Balkins. When asked about cronyism and Bush/Cheney profitting on war, former Clinton administrator, Steven Kelman, of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy, said: " One would be hard pressed to discover anyone with a working knowledge of how federal contracts are awarded....who doesn't regard these allegations as being somewhere between highly improbable and utterly absurd."
So, while you're roasting Cheney for making a profit while CEO of Halliburton until 2000, and having a 100% increase in DOD contracts, along with no bid contracts under Clinton's watch, we must assume that Clinton was in cahoots with Cheney.
Patty, you are such a dolt. Learn Patty Learn!!!

lizard at 9:07PM on Dec 14th 2007

80. So Lizard in order for you not to be as bumb as Patty,you are going to use the Clinton argument (AGAIN, the only choice of weapon for the G-grand,O-Oil-P-Parasite Party*** CLINTON) That he did the same things your RATS are doing. So, by your standards two wrongs make it right???

Oh dear Lizard Dumb is as Dumb does!!

Do you need me to interpret that for you, dear?

Rose at 2:08PM on Dec 15th 2007

81. #80 Tokyo Rose. I like to post facts showing the liberal hypocrisy, because it stops you libs dead in your tracks and reduces you to ad hominem responses as you've duly demonstrated.
Also, in the highly unlikely event that this rape took place as described, how is this tied into Halliburton---> Cheney----> Bush, as you libs like to point out? With YOUR locic in mind, if someone buys a gumball in a Halliburton lobby's vending machine then goes out and commits a crime, it's Halliburton/Cheney/Bush fault.
And if Patty want to point out lies, I'm not sure there is enough bandwidth to cover all of the liberal, Democrat lies out there that are confirmed lies or that the liar has confessed to, ie., Clinton; "I never had sex with that woman," Kerry; "I remember being in Cambodia Christmas eve,"
Theresa Heinz Kerry's "shove it" incident where she referred to Republicans as "unAmerican" then denied it; John Edwards....if you vote for us, people will get out of their wheelchairs and walk again speech;
Tom Harkin recanting his lies about flying missions in Vietnam; Democrat mayor of Atlantic City dissappearing for three weeks to seek therapy/rehab after the story was unfolding about his military service record lies; phony soldiers who claimed to have been in Iraq; Rory Mayberry, the career criminal who's now under indictment for prividing false testimony with lies about Halliburton's food services, and "kidnapping" Filipino workers to build the embassy in Iraq, John Kerry "one million Black votes weren't counted," etc., etc.

lizard at 8:04PM on Dec 15th 2007

82. Patty - If Iraq was a nightmare before we got there and it was (600,000 confirmed dead, killed by Saddam, Uday, Cusay, untold thousands tortured, many to death by saws, electric drills, sulphuric acid, wood chippers, etc. And don't forget the 400,000 Iraqis that died in the Iran/Iraq war.) then GW Bush couldn't have "destroyed" the country and our soldiers didn't "rape" it because it was already under siege and in desperate shape when we got there and most of the Baathists who held the country hostage are now dead.

Yes, there is still deadly random violence, but it is not like the kind of systematic reign of terror where people simply disappeared forever, if they were, for example, deemed to be less than enthusiastic about attending one of the many Saddam parades.

Again the UN says 75,000 Iraqis are dead over the past five years. Iraq Body Count says it's around 80,000. Thus, GW Bush has reduced Iraqi civilian deaths by at least 40%, Batthists are no longer torturing people to death, 11 Million Iraqi people voted for freedom under threat of death and the surge is working with last month civilian death count for the entire country of 30 Million down to 1000, which compares favorably to many major US cities, by the way, including Detroit, DC and Philadelphia. So much for the "Bush is Hitler" doctrine.

Linda - Yes, I do remember Lebanon and our marines but it was irrelevant to the discussion, (my comments, I think, are relevant because they are a response to Patty's assertion that Bush is destroying Iraq.) but thank you for the complement anyways because I wouldn't mind being 20 years younger.

Dave at 8:47PM on Dec 15th 2007

83. Oh, and one other thing Patty, it was Saddam, Uday, Cusay and their proxies who really were "raping" Iraq. Those people are now gone, thank God.

I'll go back to my original comments and then some. If Bush and Cheney are knowingly complicit in coverup of a rape, and that's a big "if", I would support impeachment.

Dave at 8:58AM on Dec 16th 2007

84. 83. Oh, and one other thing Patty, it was Saddam, Uday, Cusay and their proxies who really were "raping" Iraq. Those people are now gone, thank God.

I'll go back to my original comments and then some. If Bush and Cheney are knowingly complicit in coverup of a rape, and that's a big "if", I would support impeachment.

Dave at 8:58AM on Dec 16th 2007
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Hey Dave:)
1) There is no excuse for the things that Hussein and his son's did to their own people. They were criminals and they were horrific animals. No arguments. I think the world is always better of when these kinds of MONSTERS get what they deserve. No arguments there, none at all. Too bad the very people of Iraq did not stand up and do something about them a long time ago!

2) The fact still remains, that these "monsters" had nothing to do with the horrific and cowardly attacks on our nation on 9/11. The responsible monsters for this dispicable act was Osama and his monsters.

3) I would love for any member of the republican party to name any democrat or liberal that did not stand as ONE and supported this president, when he told us that we would go after Osama in Afghanistant. That he would get him "dead or alive". Do we know where Osama is 7 years later??

4) I would also love to know, how many of the "GOOD CITIZENS" of our beloved nation, really cared at all for the citizens of Iraq on 9/10/2001, and what their daily lives were like.

5) I will not argue with you that this nation has been raped in every sence of the word, and that Al Queda is there "NOW".

6) Why is it so hard for you and the conservatives to admit or realize that things are far worse now, and that by going into Iraq, we have probably done Osama a huge favor??

7) Of course it is crazy to think or suggest that the president and his devil VP are responsible for a womans rape. But, it is not so crazy to realize that these men would try to cover up anything that dealt with their cronies, company's they have a vested interest in.

8) There is plenty of stuff these two men have done that you could support impeachment for!! However, you refuse to see it or you have chosen not too!

9) Dave, "Patty's assurtion that Bush is destroying Iraq"??? Patty is not alone on this one. However, Patty was referring to Bush destroying OUR NATION!!


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Dear Rose,

Thank you, but don't waste your time! As you can see it is not worth it!!

Patty at 12:14PM on Dec 16th 2007

85. Also, in the highly unlikely event that this rape took place as described

LIZARD, YOU IGNORANT PRICK!
BIENG THE JERK MAN (IF THAT IS WHAT ONE CAN CALL YOU) WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN EVEN IMAGINE WHAT A WOMAN WOULD DO THIS TYPE OF SITUATION?

IF YOU SMALL BRAIN CAN ACTUALLY THINK A WOMAN, A VERY YOUNG WOMAN AT THAT. WOULD ACTUALLY COME OUT WITH THIS STORY, GOING UP AGAINS A GIANT CORPORATION. HER LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME, AFTER THE SCRUTINY, THE CRITICISM FROM IDIOTS LIKE YOU. THE TALKS ABOUT HER PRIVATE LIFE, HER FAMILY.

IT SEEMS YOU GET OF ON INSULTING ALMOST ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN THESE BLOGS. AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE A TASTE FOR GOING AFTER THE WOMEN. IF YOU WERE A MAN AND HAD A PAIR YOU WOULD PROBABLY NOT HAVE THAT NEED TO INSULT WOMEN OR ASSUME THAT THIS GIRL IS LYING AND HALLIBURTON IS NOT AT FAULT HERE.

MAYBE THEY ARE NOT, BUT HOW ABOUT WE FIND THAT OUT FIRST??

WHAT CAN ONE EXPECT FROM A DICK AND A BUSH SUPPORTER?

Lucy at 2:04PM on Dec 16th 2007

86. Patty:
1)I say Iraq is better off. You say worse. (Is there the slightest possibility that I'm not the only one who's stubborn here?) Fewer are dying. Fewer are being tortured. They have a real chance for Democracy. How's that worse? (What you know may not be so.)

2)Whether America "cared" or not for Iraq matters little as long as we were able to stop Iraqi genocide. Their lives are just as important as the people in Durfur who are being slaughtered.

3)How does anybody really know that Saddam didn't support terror in some way? In fact we know the man was offering bounties to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. The only question is how deep his involvement with terror is. (I know he and Osamma "hated" each other, but they hated us more.)

Not saying Saddam was responsible for 911, but maybe wrote a check or gave logistical support. ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend"). And we simply don't know everything that happened in Iraq because our intelligence isn't that good.

4)With regard to impeachable offenses, I need evidence, not conspiracy theories.

5)Whether Osamma is alive or dead, do you really think he's running al Queda? And do you really believe his death would end the radical Islamic threat? (If we can get him, good.)

Dave at 5:41PM on Dec 16th 2007

87. 86. Patty:
1)I say Iraq is better off. You say worse. (Is there the slightest possibility that I'm not the only one who's stubborn here?) Fewer are dying. Fewer are being tortured. They have a real chance for Democracy. How's that worse? (What you know may not be so.)
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Dave:
1) THere is no question that I have a very strong will, okay stubborn. See we are not that different you and I. Fewer are dying, fewer are being tortured and they have a better chance at democracy?? Really??? Dave, what you think you know may be worse... How is that better??

2)Whether America "cared" or not for Iraq matters little as long as we were able to stop Iraqi genocide. Their lives are just as important as the people in Durfur who are being slaughtered.
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It matters a lot, because your president wants everyone to think (NOW) that was our Mission. There is nothing nobel about what we have done to the Iraqis, NOTHING!! The lives of all human beings the world over,are just as important, and no human being regardless of their, color, religion or social status should ever slaughter! Could not agree with you more. So, by your argument we should not only be in Iraq. We should be in Durfur! We should be in Indonesia and other parts of the world as well. Even the ones that need our help, and don't have oil to be gotten!!


3)How does anybody really know that Saddam didn't support terror in some way? In fact we know the man was offering bounties to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. The only question is how deep his involvement with terror is. (I know he and Osamma "hated" each other, but they hated us more.)
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Please Dave, now you are reaching and who is the stubborn one?? Of course he supported terror. That's how he ruled his nation! But, Sadam and Osama were enemies and we do know that he would never support Bin Ladden (NEWS-FLASH Dave the entire Middle East hates us) Some rulers can hate and still keep their enemies close because it is to their benefit! Do you honestly think that Sadam Hussein wanted to mess with the USA? Furthermore, we know that the famous WMD were never found and after 4-41/2 years they are still MIA!! We also know that Terror groups like Al Queda were not in Iraq,until we invaded that country!!

Not saying Saddam was responsible for 911, but maybe wrote a check or gave logistical support. ("The enemy of my enemy is my friend"). And we simply don't know everything that happened in Iraq because our intelligence isn't that good.
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You think that because George told you to think that? How do we know that he did? One of your neighbors shoots your dog, your not sure which one likes you least so you kill one of them?? After all you have a 50/50% chance??
"our intelligence isn't that good" So, therefore... we will just go into Iraq..!?

4)With regard to impeachable offenses, I need evidence, not conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories?? So that's what they are calling it these days?? Papa Bush himself once said, that it was an act of treason to reveal the name of an agent of the CIA. OH but that's right you boys on the right, don't belive that Valerie was covert. Because Fox told you so. Even though it has been proven and her boss admitted that she indeed was a cover. Okay Dave, I hope you and the rest of us don't get that evidence when it's just a bit too late!

5)Whether Osamma is alive or dead, do you really think he's running al Queda? And do you really believe his death would end the radical Islamic threat? (If we can get him, good.)
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I do not know if he is dead or alive! I do not know if he is still running al Queda! Radical Islamic and terrorist will live on long after we are gone. We all know that. "(If we can get him, good.)". Dave, why did we ever take our eyes of him in the first place?? Remember, Dead or alive? We dropped the ball and went into Iraq, because that is what Bush wanted. Why IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND??

If you truly believe "we are fighting there, so we don't fight them here", you are living in a fantasy land. By going to Iraq all this administration has done, is make things worse for all of us. And yes, Dave, I belive worse for the Iraqis!

Bush and his administration need to go, they need to go yesterday!!!!!


Dave at 5:41PM on Dec 16th 2007

Patty at 6:54PM on Dec 16th 2007

88. Patty - 1)It was Richard Armitage that spilled the beans about Valerie Plame, Not Bush or Rove and it's an open question whether she was a covert agent anyways. She worked at a desk at the CIA. (And her husband Joe Wilson was discredited as liar by The New York Times, Washington Post and House Intelligence Committee.) That's your evidence for impeachment?

2)Why couldn't any weapons have been moved to someplace like Syria or buried? They knew for months that we were going to invade. And can you imagine how the people who are screaming that Bush knowingly allowed us to be attacked on 911 would be screaming if we allowed a dangerous enemy like Saddam to have weapons and he used them? And if Bush was wrong about WMD, so was Kerry, Clinton, Daschle, Kennedy, Gore, etc who started the whole WMD drumbeat in 1998. (And Saddam was a threat to us. He attempted to kill GH Bush.)

3)There's nothing nobel about overthrowing a murderous tyrant and bringing in Democracy?

4)Who's to say that if we did go into Darfur that we wouldn't get in a guerilla war there? It's the same sordid cast of characters there (islamic radicals) so they would probably use the same tactics.

5)It's a lot harder to get a guy that has a million caves to hide in and he knows you're after him than just vaporizing him when he's standing out in the open like he did during the previous administration. And if Bush likes terrorists so much, why are al ZarQawi and 3/4 of al Queda leadership now dead?

Dave at 8:02PM on Dec 16th 2007

89. 88. Patty - 1)It was Richard Armitage that spilled the beans about Valerie Plame, Not Bush or Rove and it's an open question whether she was a covert agent anyways. She worked at a desk at the CIA. (And her husband Joe Wilson was discredited as liar by The New York Times, Washington Post and House Intelligence Committee.) That's your evidence for impeachment?
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Right, because the story you are going with, is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but...
Did you watch the hearings on TV, when she spoke before the investigating committee? Her boss verifide that she was covert, (where is the question there?) Richard Armitage,is one of the boys as is Scotter Libby. Do you honestly think that Rove, Cheney and your President would not do everything in their power to cover their dirty little tracks, with something this big? How convinient for your president that all was dropped in the case of Libby. And this is just one small sample for IMPEACHMENT!

2)Why couldn't any weapons have been moved to someplace like Syria or buried?( YES DAVE, AND IF MY GRANDMOTHER HAD TESTICLES, SHE WOULD BE MY GRANDFATHER!) They knew for months that we were going to invade. And can you imagine how the people who are screaming that Bush knowingly allowed us to be attacked on 911 would be screaming if we allowed a dangerous enemy like Saddam to have weapons and he used them? And if Bush was wrong about WMD, so was Kerry, Clinton, Daschle, Kennedy, Gore, etc who started the whole WMD drumbeat in 1998. (And Saddam was a threat to us. He attempted to kill GH Bush.)
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We went to war because that's what your president wanted! He is the CEO and he fed Congress the phoney information. These Senators you mentioned all changed their minds about WMD when they realized it was all a lie (people do realize that there are times when they've been wrong and do something about their mistakes. Unlike your president!) Gore??? He was against this war from the beginning!

3)There's nothing nobel about overthrowing a murderous tyrant and bringing in Democracy?
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No, not when you have your own agenda and your help was not asked for in the first place. Yes he had always been a Tyrant, even back when Rumsfeld and Cheney were there shaking his hands and selling him weapons. Back then the Tyrant was friends with your representatives. Where was the outraged then, for the poor Iraqi citizens?? Guess the good old $$$$ was a lot more important!! Well So Much For Nobelity!

4)Who's to say that if we did go into Darfur that we wouldn't get in a guerilla war there? It's the same sordid cast of characters there (islamic radicals) so they would probably use the same tactics.
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I'm sure you are right. However, the issue here is Iraq and all the reasons why we are there.

5)It's a lot harder to get a guy that has a million caves to hide in and he knows you're after him than just vaporizing him when he's standing out in the open like he did during the previous administration. And if Bush likes terrorists so much, why are al ZarQawi and 3/4 of al Queda leadership now dead?
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So, are you saying because he can hide well, we whent somewhere else??? WOW!!! This is not the previous adminstration. The previous administration has been gone for 7 years. And can conservatives ever take responsibility for their mistakes. Is Clinton the only argument you can still use after 7 years?? Let it go Dave. Bush is not 1/2 the president his father was!! He is not even a blip of what Clinton was!! He has run our nation just as bad as he did his baseball team.

Dave, I'm sorry in my opinion you are backing the wrong horse!!

Dave

Patty at 12:03PM on Dec 17th 2007

90. News Flash:

President Bush has joined with his counterpart King Abdullah of Saudia Arabia and forgiven any rape victims in Iraq. Also, he his pardoning all rape victims in the United States past , present, and future.

Timo at 3:13PM on Dec 17th 2007