Teaching as a Form of Indoctrination

Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...

Mo Rocca Feed

Teaching as a Form of Indoctrination

Posted Dec 13th 2007 7:23AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Islam, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism

Philosopher Daniel Dennett wants to force all parents, even parents who home-school their offspring, to give up their children to educators like himself. For what purpose? To expose the children, Dennett argues, to "uncontroversial" facts about the world's religions. Listen to Dennett make his case in a short segment from our recent debate in Boston, and then you can hear my answer to him.

In his book on religion, Dennett writes, "How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It's one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in?" Dennett insists that "parents don't literally own their children the way slaveowners once owned slaves, but are, rather, their stewards and guardians, and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."

During our debate, Dennett asked me what part of his proposal I disagreed with. Well, I agree with him that one of the purposes of education is to expose young people to facts and ideas that they do not get at home. But I disagree with Dennett's presumption that parents are typically the indoctrinators while educators are always the liberators. Notice how derisively and condescendingly he talks about religion. His derision is entirely unsubstantiated by facts. He mocks the Vatican and wonders if it will one day become a museum, and he wonders if Mecca is headed for repossession as "Disney's Magic Kingdom of Allah." Sure enough, a good part of the audience is moved to snickers and laughter. This is bigotry posing as intellectual sophistication. Dennett has taught the undergraduates well: chuckle at anyone who takes religion seriously and this is how you will be considered an enlightened, mature person.

We should turn Dennett's questions on him and apply them to professors: "How much do we regard children as being the property of their teachers? Should secular educators be free to impose their anti-religious beliefs on young people? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? Universities don't literally own undergraduates the way slaveowners once owned slaves but are, rather, their stewards and guardians and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."

For legislators, alumni and parents, probably the best way to hold universities accountable is through financial leverage. The way I do it is to take on self-satisfied pedants like Dennett and expose them, in front of their own students, as intellectual emperors without clothes. Watch the Dennett debate and you will see how the snickers and applause of the skeptics eventually gives way to a sullen silence. These students are desperately in need of an alternative to the strident secularism of Dennett and his colleagues. True liberation for young people means freedom not only from the ignorant fundamentalism that Dennett rails about, but also freedom from the secular fundamentalism that he and many others in the academy sadly embody.

Permalink
Email this
Linking Blogs
Comments [520]
Share this
- Add this post to...
- Netscape
- Digg
- Del.icio.us

Reader Comments ( Page 1 of 35)

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

1. Ummm...that "sullen silence" is due mostly to the incredulous amazement that D'Idiot was such a flying sack of stupid. Trust me, they were "silent" because you were "wimming," they were silent becuase you were stupid...and a bigoted stupid man at that.

I am all for getting religion out of schools. We need to get American Students off the bandwagon of fundamentalist ignorance (case A: Intellegent Design) and back to keeping up with Science, Medicine and Government.

Tim at 9:59AM on Dec 13th 2007

2. Church as a Form of Indoctrination.

Ryan Anderson at 9:40AM on Dec 13th 2007

3. Brilliant!!

chrispy333 at 9:45AM on Dec 13th 2007

4. I am a Christian...but my thoughts go out to every person of race, religion, and gender. Parents are God given people to be protecters of their family. The Family model in America is being shattered. My parents have been married for 35+ yrs they are more than happy. This is where "Life" education must stem from. People trying to impose on this model, are not enlightened, but rather in need of Truth. Dinesh, what a gift to communicate God has given you. Use it for Him, use it always, and you will see the world unfold before you.

Normandy at 9:46AM on Dec 13th 2007

5. Dennett's over-confidence in his flawed understanding of science mystifies me. Even a first-year university student understands that much of our "knowledge" is little more than theories that are constantly being refined, disproven or replaced.

Several years ago some professors placed a full page ad in the frosh week edition of our secular university's student newspaper. The ad read, "Is there a place for Jesus at the University of Western Ontario? We think so."

Most of the ad's space was comprised of the signatures of more than 5 dozen Christian university professors, each one from the Faculties of Science, Medicine or Engineering (including the Deans of Science and Engineering).

Svan at 9:50AM on Dec 13th 2007

6. Are you truly so blind that you can't see any diference between parents using fear and their authority to indoctrinate children, and a professor speaking to 18+ year olds in a university? These are legal adults mind you. Yet it is the same as telling a 12 year old and younger child that they will go to hell if they don't believe the Pope is God's representative on earth.

Bill C. at 9:59AM on Dec 13th 2007

7. I came to this country because freedom and know I can see that liberals wants to remove from us de freedom to worship the Lord. THANK'S GOD we have people like Dinesh. May the Lord bless him and protect always.

Jairo Rodriguez at 8:47AM on Dec 14th 2007

8. Well, DD, you're finally talking about something that speaks to me!

I know that parents are SO ready to expose their little ones to the tenets and precepts of their religion. They usually begin their indoctrination when the tots are between 3 and 5 years old. At the same time, kids are turned on to Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. This is also when boogeymen become fearsome.

The little ones are like sponges, they have tremendous imagination, and, because they have limited knowledge of the real world, engage in magical thinking.

So, they swallow all the magical creatures and supernatural beings, often with all their hearts. This is almost always encouraged by the parents.

So, as they grow older, they will gently or suddenly find out the the mythical beings do not actually exist. Except for one.

Mom and Dad and the church/synagogue/mosque (or whatever) keep drilling in their young heads that one of the supernatural beings is REAL, and can bring them 'goodness' just like the other beings bring them things.

They hang out with other kids who have the same indoctrination (Sunday School).

Would it be so bad to wait until they are old enough to figure things out for themselves?

YES, say Mom and Dad and church/synagogue/mosque.
THESE ARE MY KIDS AND THEY'RE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE.

This is not 'knowledge'. This is 'belief'. This is brainwashing.

Thank you.

Linda at 10:23AM on Dec 13th 2007

9. It is interesting to me to see Dinesh so worried about secular indoctrination when his theology clings so to the notion of free will. So, how free is that free will to make up one's own mind about good and evil if, as he seems to worry, we are so easily persuaded by the effort of others to indoctrinate us? Aren't these the behavior control mechanisms BF Skinner tried to address in Beyond Freedom and Dignity when he argued there is no free will? So Dinesh, is there free will?

Scolding Dennett for his desire to broadly introduce youth to various religious ideas and practices should not worry Dinesh if, as he says, Christianity is so great. Dennett's idea would help you get the word out, much in keeping with the great commission Jesus wanted for taking his message to all nations. Christians already spend large sums to send their missionaries to all corners of the world to proselytize. It seems like Dennett wants to help.

It also strikes me that Dinesh and friends want it both ways. They want prayer at school, creationism in the biology classroom, but heaven forbid that the religion of others be compared to their own, especially by a non-believer.

We are not getting a consistent message here from Christian proponents.

jamesg4336 at 10:29AM on Dec 13th 2007

10. Dinesh,

Please stop misrepresenting what people have said about you (on the Richard Dawkins website) in your debate with Dan. It's unkind (and probably un-Christian) of you to select parts of quotes that make you look good when in actuality the rest of the quote is highly critical of your claims.

For those of you interested in what more people think about Dinesh's self-proclaiming comments that he "won" this debate check out www.richarddawkins.net. And for those of you who would like to see how Dinesh has selectively used quotes in his favor check out this blog http://hjhop.blogspot.com/2007/12/dinesh-dsouza-wouldnt-know-truth-if-it.html. For those of you who would like a larger sampling size of comments from the general population (rather than possible bias from this blog or the Dawkins site) please check out the youtube.com comments for the videos. It's clear who the general users thought won the debate. And what they think of Dinesh.

As for my analysis of the debate, I only had a couple of comments:

1. It's hard to take you seriously when you make ridiculous claims like (paraphrased), "God is outside of space and time and therefore not subject to our laws." It's a nice idea, but there's no proof. Do I need proof? Well, yes, I'm sorry but I do. Especially when there are caveats to this rule like:
a) god can still interact with us personally.
b) god answers prayer.
c) god came to this earth in a material form to save us all (even though he exists outside of this realm).
I know, minor details at best. And I'm sure easily answered by you. But again, probably without proof.

2. For the love of all things holy, stop shouting. Please. Shouting your points does not make them true, and it does not mean you win the debate.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave McAdams at 10:30AM on Dec 13th 2007

11. DD's argument is extremely flawed. All the Christians he refers to HAVE NOT seen God, so their beliefs equal those of children who believe in Santa. Why do they? Because parents tell them so and because other children share that belief. There are stories about Santa in books and in movies. DD's example of killing someone was a pro-atheism comment. Just like you "knew you didn't do it" we know there is no god. And we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Since you cannot prove the existence of god, we remain innocent non-believers. If you want your children to learn creationism, please send them to a private school. Public schools have a responsibility to factually teach WORLD RELIGIONS, not one religious theory. So if the idea of creationsim is discussed, the idea of reincarnation must be discussed as well and on equal terms. Public schools are not for brainwashing; they are for teaching critical thinking.

emma at 10:37AM on Dec 13th 2007

12. Omigod. Could you imagind the squack if kids were taught about all of the major religions before they selected their own?

I have known kids (myself included) who decided as teens to try out a church or temple. I went to a southern baptist church for about a year.

they eventually called my mom and told her that unless I was willing to witness for christ, I really couldn't attend sunday school (too many questions) or sing in the choir (choir went up and witnessed and I didn't)

My mom said "Hmmmmm. Don't think that is the place for you". I agreed.

I understand where they were coming from at the church. It was a requirement to 'believe' and follow certain rules to remain a member.

It was a good lesson for me. Not in a negative way, the people there were pretty nice. It reinforced in me that I absolutely did not believe in any of the stuff they believed in.

Thanks for letting me share.

Linda at 10:42AM on Dec 13th 2007

13. Thanks Linda you have proven DD's point again. For some reason you think you have the right to trump parents rights. You don't and neither do the schools. You also show how intolerant you are with these comments. You are also missing the point that these so call Atheist leaders are not teaching fundamental sciences. Most of it is Metaphysical, or as Atheist like to put it Dogma.

pd at 10:48AM on Dec 13th 2007

14. By the way: a squack is a combination of a squeek and a quack.

Linda at 10:46AM on Dec 13th 2007

15. I would have thought that as an agnostic DD would welcome more education and about the diversity of religions.

a born atheist at 10:48AM on Dec 13th 2007

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

Add your comments

Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.

When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.

To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br> tags.

Mo's Video

The Sound of a Smoke-Free Barack...
Almost two years ago we speculated on how Barack Obama's voice would change if he stopped smoking. ...

Coming Soon

Most Commented On

Coming Soon

Mo's Bio

Mo Rocca appears on a bunch of shows, including CBS News Sunday Morning (with the indescribably wonderful Charles Osgood), The Tonight Show on NBC, and NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! He's a sometime judge on Iron Chef and was featured on Telemundo's Amore Descarado. Last year he starred on Broadway in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. His expose "All the President's Pets" was published by Crown in 2004.