Philosopher Daniel Dennett wants to force all parents, even parents who home-school their offspring, to give up their children to educators like himself. For what purpose? To expose the children, Dennett argues, to "uncontroversial" facts about the world's religions. Listen to Dennett make his case in a short segment from our recent debate in Boston, and then you can hear my answer to him.
In his book on religion, Dennett writes, "How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It's one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in?" Dennett insists that "parents don't literally own their children the way slaveowners once owned slaves, but are, rather, their stewards and guardians, and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."
During our debate, Dennett asked me what part of his proposal I disagreed with. Well, I agree with him that one of the purposes of education is to expose young people to facts and ideas that they do not get at home. But I disagree with Dennett's presumption that parents are typically the indoctrinators while educators are always the liberators. Notice how derisively and condescendingly he talks about religion. His derision is entirely unsubstantiated by facts. He mocks the Vatican and wonders if it will one day become a museum, and he wonders if Mecca is headed for repossession as "Disney's Magic Kingdom of Allah." Sure enough, a good part of the audience is moved to snickers and laughter. This is bigotry posing as intellectual sophistication. Dennett has taught the undergraduates well: chuckle at anyone who takes religion seriously and this is how you will be considered an enlightened, mature person.
We should turn Dennett's questions on him and apply them to professors: "How much do we regard children as being the property of their teachers? Should secular educators be free to impose their anti-religious beliefs on young people? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? Universities don't literally own undergraduates the way slaveowners once owned slaves but are, rather, their stewards and guardians and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."
For legislators, alumni and parents, probably the best way to hold universities accountable is through financial leverage. The way I do it is to take on self-satisfied pedants like Dennett and expose them, in front of their own students, as intellectual emperors without clothes. Watch the Dennett debate and you will see how the snickers and applause of the skeptics eventually gives way to a sullen silence. These students are desperately in need of an alternative to the strident secularism of Dennett and his colleagues. True liberation for young people means freedom not only from the ignorant fundamentalism that Dennett rails about, but also freedom from the secular fundamentalism that he and many others in the academy sadly embody.
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Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 35)
31. D'Strawman's final statement in the video is what I'm focusing on: "I agree with his proposal, I just don't want him to be the guy doing it."
So he's saying, it's OK if a religionist teaches my kids in school, but not an atheist.
MmmmHmmm...so in D'Strawman's perfect world, all teachers would be Christian, teaching his form of bigotry, and students would only hear other points of view, FILTERED through that person. Or am I misreading what he's saying here?
brandon at 11:57AM on Dec 13th 2007
32. Since the secular movement and the ACLU have taken control of "public' education we have had three generations of its product to examine. in that time we have seen a dramatic drop in US educational standards compared internationally. But we have also seen increased school violence, drug use, teen pregnancy and single parenthood. The moral standard has become "you can't prove i did it".
Do we need more of this secular attitude in education ?
Who benefits, other then a few pretend "academics" seeking attention. Why should they set any standard?
CK at 12:11PM on Dec 13th 2007
33. good job, DD, keep it up. The venom they show towards you only confirms how you are winning. They have nothing but strawman arguments.
Memphis Rampage at 12:14PM on Dec 13th 2007
34. Well done Dinesh, you're right as usual. The depth of arrogance of the intellectual elitists in our Universities and media never ceases to amaze me. I think a study should be done on the dysfunctional families of college professors lets see if they really are qualified to say how children should be raised.
Al at 12:14PM on Dec 13th 2007
35. Every time you see a statistic that something is on the rise, always factor in proportionate population growth.
Mokele-Mbembe at 12:17PM on Dec 13th 2007
36. Intellegent Design by Tim.
What?
OK... God Exists.
mincpa at 12:30PM on Dec 13th 2007
37. Hey all... I found this and thought I'd post it because it's a funny stand-up routine on the bible with Ricky Gervais, who is brilliantly funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEj3g5GOYA
MC Hammer at 12:32PM on Dec 13th 2007
38. There is no neutral worldview. Whether children are taught from a secular humanist perspective or a Christian perspective the underlining worldview is involved. Everyone thinks with their worldview, but rarely to they think about it.
If atheism is true and we all are merely products of evolution then why waste time debating religion at all? If we evolved then it is a natural process of evolution. Also parents rearing their own children would be a natural process of evolution. To take children away from their natural parents to be educated by others would be a divergence from the natural. Dennett points at the evil caused be religion, yet evil cannot even exist in his pardigm. For if evil exist then good exist and then something must exist to differientate between the two and that would be a moral law. And if there was such a thing by which we could judge our actions as good or bad then there must be a Giver of that moral law.
Moreover if God exist and made Himself known through Jesus to the world and all this stuff about having a relationship with the Creator of the Universe is true then wouldn't you want your own kids to know about it? Wouldn't you want them to know God if it were possible to do so? And if we who believe in Jesus and claim to know Him really do then maybe there is a good reason for wanting our children to experience life with God too.
We look at Christianity from the outside as a religion full of rules and problems, but we miss Jesus when we allow that to cloud our view of something amazing. I, as a Christian, am sorry that we haven't done a better job of showing the world that a life with Jesus is the only life worth living. We should be communicating love beyond anything anyone has ever experienced. We should be living the truth and giving reasonable answers to all your questions. We owe you an experience with God. If my friends don't know Him then that's my fault not theirs. It's my responsibility to show the Truth without the entanglements of religious rules that were never meant to be requirements of a life with God.
If we really evolved and no God existed how could we even have the idea of Him to debate about? How do so many billions of people want to find spirituality if we are not spiritual beings?
Karla at 12:34PM on Dec 13th 2007
39. God really does exist. There's no question about it. I've physically stood next to Him, and He's very sincere and loving.
There's no more needless discussion about God not existing.
God's "inexistence" cannot be proven. Not only by incapability, but in truth because God does exist.
Lets stop wasting our time with allowing confusion to settle within, lets make amends and "do the right thing".
mincpa at 12:34PM on Dec 13th 2007
40. When we were living out in California, the public elementary schools were overcrowded, littered with graffity and unable to provide books for every child. Beginning at kindergarten, we sent our eldest child to a christian school(as many parents did for the same reason, and do here in Jersey, where Trenton schools are abysmal). One evening I went into her bedroom to find her sitting up, sobbing. It seems she had been told to ask forgiveness for her sins as part of her night-time prayers and thought for sure god would be displeased should she neglect this portion of the prayer.But she couldn't think of any. What sins could a five year old have??!!!!!! This is the sort of indoctrination that my husband and I fought hard against every night at the dinner table after school with rational discussions that made sure all the children understood all aspects of the bible that they were being taught, and the mind sets of the people teaching them. They have now grown into thinking adults who can make their own (and that is the important part) decisions regarding what they read and hear about religion.
I am sick of churches and religion and their unending ecclesiastic games of "whack-a-mole" with this edict or that, the latest being that those who vote for canditates who support various areas that churches deem anathma, i.e. abortion, same sex marriage, stem cell research, etc, risk eternal salvation. It's as if they aren't sure if their members have fully drunk the Kool-Aid and must have the fear of hell drilled into them just to be on the safe side. Who's indoctrinating who here? It's a totally "my way or the highway" viewpoint with religions (the catholic church being the main culprit) and unfortunately, through bible summer camps and ccd lessons to name a few, children are caught early in the nets of religon that often times teach little more than "believe this or your going to hell." What child wouldn't believe faced with that??!!
As someone who was raised catholic by a catholic hating catholic and a catholic hating protestant (long story, tho interesting, let's just say promises were made), it's a wonder I made it long enough to actually be married in it. (We have no "formal" religion now.) It wasn't until we started having children that we recognized our responsibility to show them that religion, taken whole, without questioning and letting others decide what you will believe, is the very essence of ignorance.
DD rails against secularists because he is afraid that those of us with a brain in our head and know how to use it logically are right when it comes to seeing through the crap that is religion and that we won't let our children be victims of it.
pamela at 12:40PM on Dec 13th 2007
41. But we have also seen increased school violence, drug use, teen pregnancy and single parenthood. - CK
And lo and behold all these things you mention are most prevalent in the parts of the US with the most religiously oppressive atmosphere - i.e. the bible belt.
fabio at 12:40PM on Dec 13th 2007
42. mincpa,
If God is a physical being as you allege, the whole debate can finally be ended. Since he's such a good buddy to stand up next to you, ask to bring him to show-and-tell. There's no reason not to.
Karla,
How do so many billions of people want to find money if we are not rich beings?
Mokele-Mbembe at 12:42PM on Dec 13th 2007
43. Richelle, the whole point of Dinesh’s argument is that universities don’t foster critical thinking. Humanistic and social science disciplines especially are dominated by the kind of sneering disregard for traditional morality and ethics exposed by Mr. D’Souza. Also, while undergraduates in college are not as malleable as five-year-olds, they’re still at a formative period of life. Besides, it’s erroneous to assume that even people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s have stopped thinking about “big questions.” Morality, metaphysics, human nature, etc. have been debated by thinkers and scholars for thousands of years. It would be arrogant to assume that anyone has it all figured out the point where he or she could speak about it with the blithe smarminess exhibited by Dan Dennett.
CK, you’re absolutely right about secularism in secondary and even primary education. I was surprised by Larry D. Davis’ remark that religiosity has taken over American schools. If anything, it has been pushed to the margins of serious inquiry, in favor of things like birth control education at the kindergarten level. Also, I hope Larry was joking when he suggested that American students would do better to study “the real world of Stocks, Ipods, design of sub microscopic computer chips, nanotechnology, Helicopter Flight paths and vector diagramming.” These admittedly wonderful technological advancements have been made only in the past 10 to 15 years. Will such transient education help young people when, for example, a death in the family compels reflection on the meaning of life? Will such learning teach them how to be mentally nimble enough to cope when today’s technology becomes tomorrow’s museum exhibit?
Emma, Dinesh isn’t saying that atheist parents don’t have a righ to teach their children as they see fit. What he’s saying is that university professors shouldn’t act as though atheism is any more objective than traditional ethics and religion. Linda, this speaks to your point about teaching children than no belief is ok. You should read Allan Bloom’s book “The Closing of the American Mind.” He posits that this is exactly the sort of education people get out of high school and college in the U.S. – children are taught, through the lens of relativism, that all lifestyles and cultures are equal, and that we therefore shouldn’t even try to analyze their comparative benefits and drawbacks. We should just accept that “everything is relative.” But does a difference of opinion prove that there is no truth? If that’s the case, people could just start killing and stealing from other people as they please, since one person’s claim to life is only relative to someone else’s desire to take it from him. Allan Bloom says that American teenagers enter college without even a prejudice to rebel against! – they are simply prepared to admit that there is no truth. Relativism is this “closing of the American mind,” in that it stifles debate on the assumption that as long as difference and exception exists, there can be no inquiry into the nature of that difference. What Mr. D’Souza wants to expose is the illusion of secular objectivity espoused by academic leftists, who constitute the vast majority of university humanities and social science departments. These liberals use the “parent as steward” argument to smokescreen a hidden agenda.
bship at 12:42PM on Dec 13th 2007
44. I, as a Christian, am sorry that we haven't done a better job of showing the world that a life with Jesus is the only life worth living. - Karla
The only life worth living? So anyone who doesn't live their life with Jesus, have no life worth living? So their lives are worthless?
I guess it's easier to ignore, dismiss and maybe even exterminate people when you don't consider their lives to be worth anything anyway.
Thank you for explaining why religion - and in this case Christianity - is the greatest evil in the world.
fabio at 12:50PM on Dec 13th 2007
45. The moral standard has become "you can't prove i did it".
You may be right that this is what the moral standard has become. But why do you think it comes from the schools? I think it comes from the top-down as in any organization. This has been the moral standard of the white house/administration for the last 7 years.
I also believe this is where the increased violence and gunplayin our society comes from as well. It always works top-down in ANY organization.
America's Most Gangsta at 12:51PM on Dec 13th 2007