Teaching as a Form of Indoctrination

Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...

Mo Rocca Feed

Teaching as a Form of Indoctrination

Posted Dec 13th 2007 7:23AM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Islam, Christianity, Controversy, Atheism

Philosopher Daniel Dennett wants to force all parents, even parents who home-school their offspring, to give up their children to educators like himself. For what purpose? To expose the children, Dennett argues, to "uncontroversial" facts about the world's religions. Listen to Dennett make his case in a short segment from our recent debate in Boston, and then you can hear my answer to him.

In his book on religion, Dennett writes, "How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It's one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in?" Dennett insists that "parents don't literally own their children the way slaveowners once owned slaves, but are, rather, their stewards and guardians, and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."

During our debate, Dennett asked me what part of his proposal I disagreed with. Well, I agree with him that one of the purposes of education is to expose young people to facts and ideas that they do not get at home. But I disagree with Dennett's presumption that parents are typically the indoctrinators while educators are always the liberators. Notice how derisively and condescendingly he talks about religion. His derision is entirely unsubstantiated by facts. He mocks the Vatican and wonders if it will one day become a museum, and he wonders if Mecca is headed for repossession as "Disney's Magic Kingdom of Allah." Sure enough, a good part of the audience is moved to snickers and laughter. This is bigotry posing as intellectual sophistication. Dennett has taught the undergraduates well: chuckle at anyone who takes religion seriously and this is how you will be considered an enlightened, mature person.

We should turn Dennett's questions on him and apply them to professors: "How much do we regard children as being the property of their teachers? Should secular educators be free to impose their anti-religious beliefs on young people? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? Universities don't literally own undergraduates the way slaveowners once owned slaves but are, rather, their stewards and guardians and ought to be held accountable by outsiders for their guardianship, which does imply that outsiders have a right to interfere."

For legislators, alumni and parents, probably the best way to hold universities accountable is through financial leverage. The way I do it is to take on self-satisfied pedants like Dennett and expose them, in front of their own students, as intellectual emperors without clothes. Watch the Dennett debate and you will see how the snickers and applause of the skeptics eventually gives way to a sullen silence. These students are desperately in need of an alternative to the strident secularism of Dennett and his colleagues. True liberation for young people means freedom not only from the ignorant fundamentalism that Dennett rails about, but also freedom from the secular fundamentalism that he and many others in the academy sadly embody.

Permalink
Email this
Linking Blogs
Comments [520]
Share this
- Add this post to...
- Netscape
- Digg
- Del.icio.us

Reader Comments ( Page 7 of 35)

Previous 15 Comments | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

91. Richard,

If you are truly interested in converting me, Then explain in detail and provide evidence were the law came from that regulates the systematic universe.
Also how did matter appear from zero substance?

Observant at 2:53PM on Dec 13th 2007

92. 76. Who can we blame for Goth?

Mokele-Mbembe at 2:17PM on Dec 13th 2007
------------------------------
A cute joke there, but actually, we can also thank christianity for goth.

Goth takes influences from gothic novels such as dracula, and vampire myths in general, and utilizes dark clothing and symbols of paganism or psuedosatanism. It's a reaction AGAINST christian oppressiveness, much as LaVey's brand of non-theistic Satanism was. Neither would exist without christianity. Neither would have even started without the original oppression and disapproval and demonization of others by the christians, who always claim absolute moral authority.

There... :-)

Brian at 2:56PM on Dec 13th 2007

93. Penn and Teller are great, tho I always watch with an open mind because I suspect they cherry pick to support their postitions like anybody else does (Michael Moore for instance). To my mind, give me Mr. Deity any day! Not for the faint of heart or those without a sense of humor about their creator (like my in-laws).

And I guess I haven't done a very good job of indoctrinating my children, because despite years of pleading, punishing, yelling, bargaining, berating and asking, they STILL leave their dishes downstairs for me to find DAYS later crusted with food.

Pray for them ( or me whichever makes you feel best )

pamela at 2:56PM on Dec 13th 2007

94. Not one has been proven.
Life from non-life. bang without matter, you have been conned. - Observant

Just like god has not been proven, right? Actually not quite. The evidence for that which you claim not to be proven is vast and overwhelming. Whereas the evidence for the god you believe in, is no different and no better then the proof of unicorns, leprechauns and gremlins.

So you accuse of atheists of being conned by overwhelming scientific evidence, while you have been conned by baseless supposition.

Next time you need medical attention, don't let the EMS guys con you into thinking you need treatment. Don't let the nurses con you into thinking you need an IV. Don't let the Doctor con you into thinking you need a transfusion or to have the burst appendix removed, or to swab your injury with a balm or germ killing disinfectants.

It's a trick!!! Everyone's out to get you!!! Don't fall for the con of science!!!!!!

fabio at 2:58PM on Dec 13th 2007

95. Has anyone seen SICKO?
The documentary shows how American health care is bad. But it also shows how the educational system in America is F**ked! If children can't properly get a free education in America how is anyone to stop the bigots from spreading the disease that is religion?

goddess1prevail at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007

96. For those of you that believe parents shouldn't instill a worldview in their child (if that's even possible). . . Do you believe that parents should teach children right from wrong? How would you propose a parent goes about keeping their child from believing as they do? If they attend church, do they get a baby sitter for their child? How does this work practically?

Karla at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007

97. I recommend all go see Brians you tube video. It is well worth the time.
Theists shouldn't view it however, they might find it disturbing.

Richard at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007

98. 88. Richard,

If you are truly interested in converting me, Then explain in detail and provide evidence were the law came from that regulates the systematic universe.
Also how did matter appear from zero substance?

Observant at 2:53PM on Dec 13th 2007
------------------------
But, but...

YOU can't prove any of what you believe WHATSOEVER!!! At least scientists can prove a LOT of what they think is true, and while they don't have all the answers, at least they're LOOKING for them. Until they find them, they say "we don't know that yet, but we're working on it" not "god must have done it" or they wouldn't have learned ANYTHING EVER!

You guys are really utter morons. There's no nice way to say it.

Brian at 3:01PM on Dec 13th 2007

99. They're all gonna laugh at you!
They're all gonna laugh at you!
Laugh at you...laugh at you....laugh at you......

the mother from Carrie at 3:06PM on Dec 13th 2007

100. 93. I recommend all go see Brians you tube video. It is well worth the time.
Theists shouldn't view it however, they might find it disturbing.

Richard at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007
---------------------------
Thanks, Richard! However, I think the christians really SHOULD watch it, in spite of it disturbing them...
Here's the link again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y&feature=related

Brian at 3:07PM on Dec 13th 2007

101. Brian,
I watched the video the whole way through. It certainly makes an impact. Those were brutal times and the OT Hebrews certainly took the law seriously. Obviously we wouldn't condone punishment of that sort today. But they did then and it was recorded in the OT. I wouldn't rewrite history to avoid it, I also wouldn't read it to my kids.

As a Christians we (try to) follow the teachings of Christ. Jesus changed this way of thought. Concerning the sabbath he pointed out that it would be ridiculous to leave your animal in a ditch die if he fell in on the sabbath. He stopped the group of men from stoning the adulterous woman pointing out that we are all guilty of something. He said to "love your enemies", not harm their families. His use of analogy and story telling, and the fact that by the time he died his disciples weren't hobbling cripples should tell anyone with common sense that he didn't mean for anyone to literally cut off their own arm or pluck out their own eye.

So yeah interesting movie, more like propaganda from what I can see. But you buy into that 100%. High fives all the way around huh?

And for the record. You want to take kids away from Christian parents and place them in what, some sort of state care? Wow.

bigTuna at 3:09PM on Dec 13th 2007

102. Goddess,
I can already tell that health and education are in the crapper. I just don't want to endure 2 hrs or Michael Moore. There are barely any adults that are smarter than 5th graders.

Mokele-Mbembe at 3:13PM on Dec 13th 2007

103. Do you believe that parents should teach children right from wrong? How would you propose a parent goes about keeping their child from believing as they do? If they attend church, do they get a baby sitter for their child? How does this work practically?

Karla at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007
---------------------------
Of course parents SHOULD teach the difference between right and wrong, but what happens when the parents involved aren't clear of these differences themselves due to their own religious indoctrination?

I don't know the answer. It does seem too extreme to take the children away from them, or to force the children to learn other views, but what alternative is there when a social poison is being slowly injected into our country?

If we had known about that Matthew Murray's parents were TORTURING him all these years with their religion, we still couldn't have taken him away and allowed him to have his own life. But we should have been able to. There should be laws when it's abuse like that. Regardless of what religion the parents use as an excuse.
If we had known in advance that the muslim father was going to kill his daughter for not wearing her veil, would we have taken action? Probably not. After all, it's his religion, and HEAVEN FORBID that we get involved in THAT!

Brian at 3:14PM on Dec 13th 2007

104. Do you believe that parents should teach children right from wrong? How would you propose a parent goes about keeping their child from believing as they do? If they attend church, do they get a baby sitter for their child? How does this work practically?

Karla at 3:00PM on Dec 13th 2007
---------------------------
Of course parents SHOULD teach the difference between right and wrong, but what happens when the parents involved aren't clear of these differences themselves due to their own religious indoctrination?

I don't know the answer. It does seem too extreme to take the children away from them, or to force the children to learn other views, but what alternative is there when a social poison is being slowly injected into our country?

If we had known about that Matthew Murray's parents were TORTURING him all these years with their religion, we still couldn't have taken him away and allowed him to have his own life. But we should have been able to. There should be laws when it's abuse like that. Regardless of what religion the parents use as an excuse.
If we had known in advance that the muslim father was going to kill his daughter for not wearing her veil, would we have taken action? Probably not. After all, it's his religion, and HEAVEN FORBID that we get involved in THAT!

Brian at 3:15PM on Dec 13th 2007

105. Fabio,

This is were you dont get it.
Medical Science is wonderful, SCIENCE IN GENERAL
has been a blessing for all.

But you and others contend macro evolution has been proved, when in fact it has not.

Observant at 3:15PM on Dec 13th 2007

Previous 15 Comments | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments

Add your comments

Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.

When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.

To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br> tags.

Mo's Video

The Sound of a Smoke-Free Barack...
Almost two years ago we speculated on how Barack Obama's voice would change if he stopped smoking. ...

Coming Soon

Most Commented On

Coming Soon

Mo's Bio

Mo Rocca appears on a bunch of shows, including CBS News Sunday Morning (with the indescribably wonderful Charles Osgood), The Tonight Show on NBC, and NPR's Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! He's a sometime judge on Iron Chef and was featured on Telemundo's Amore Descarado. Last year he starred on Broadway in the 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee. His expose "All the President's Pets" was published by Crown in 2004.