How do atheists celebrate Christmas? I posed that question to my friend Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic, during our recent Cal Tech debate. (My two debates with Shermer will soon be up on the web and I'll link to them on this blog.) Shermer replied that he puts up Christmas trees, and his kids sing Christmas carols--even the religious ones--and he exchanges gifts just like everyone else. Here is a guy who is not a believer but who at least respects what Christianity has done to shape our civilization and our world.
Then there's Christopher Hitchens, whom I've known over the years and like just as much. Hitchens, alas, seems to be letting his atheism get to him. First, the poor man is never seen without a drink. As a wine aficionado myself, I cannot begrudge Hitchens his affection for the spirits. In fact, a priest friend of mine once observed that wine is evidence of how much God loves us. It seems odd, however, that Hitchens feels the need to imbibe even when he's on national television or giving a public speech. If you watch our debate on C-Span or on my website dineshdsouza.com, you'll see that Hitchens reaches for his glass with the same alacrity that fundamentalists reach for the Bible.
Recently Hitchens appeared at a "secular Christmas party" thrown by the libertarian magazine Reason. Many libertarians are basically conservatives who are either gay or druggies or people who generally find the conservative moral agenda too restrictive. So they flee from the conservative to the libertarian camp where much wider parameters of personal behavior are embraced. To the sensible idea of political and economic freedom many libertarians add the more controversial principle of moral freedom, the freedom to live however you want as long as you don't harm others. Hitchens, needless to say, is at home in this group.
Hitchens' contribution to the party was to read an irreverent Christmas ditty by the lyricist Tom Lehrer. Remember Lehrer? He's a bit of a relic, like the Monty Python and the Rocky Horror movies. When I was eighteen and a freshman at Dartmouth I found Lehrer and Monty Python very sophisticated and amusing. Most of us, however, outgrow the juvenile sense of humor that they represent. Hitchens also offered a brief summary of his view that God is a celestial dictator. He portrayed God as a kind of Kim Jong-il and Jesus as a kind of little Kim waiting to inherit the throne. So here we see another portrait of Atheist Christmas: bitter guys making sophomoric jokes and staggering out of the room inebriated.
Yes, I agree that many nominal Christians have also forgotten the message of Christmas. Even so I wonder: what's the atheist equivalent of Christmas? Darwin's birthday? For many libertarians I suppose it's the day they get their tax refunds.
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How Atheists Celebrate Christmas
Posted Dec 21st 2007 2:42PM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Christianity, Controversy, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 3 of 54)
31. I personally celebrate the winter solstice:
Merry Solstice, everyone.
Linda at 4:50PM on Dec 21st 2007
32. Wid D'turkeys' D'souza and D'bate D'bible and pray for D'christians that have been D'eceived,and about D'freshman at D'art-mouth, who writes D' rubbish b'cause he celebrates D'pagan ritual and immagine he knows D'god,who is jus waitin for D'stupid Homosapiens to make noises on another D'ay in D'life of D'universe.D'ats how I D'ecide to spend D'christmas D'souza,d'ats how.
Kevin at 4:57PM on Dec 21st 2007
33. and if Dinesh thinks Monty Python is "juvenile" then he's a bigger idiot then I original thought he was.
Seriously... Life of Brian should be required viewing in Public School.
Merry Solstice
Ryan Anderson at 4:56PM on Dec 21st 2007
34. Hitchens could be hammered out of his mind, staggering, slurring, slobbering, incoherant drunk, and would still make more sense than Dinesh Dsouza.
Richard at 4:58PM on Dec 21st 2007
35. 8.
Religion has shaped the way everybody looks at the world, whether good or bad. Immoral theists and Immoral athiests, good point, but without hard evidence, I will have to say that comment is just a shot in the dark. Next, you have to understand the true meaning of belief and non-belief. But the weakest points in your whole argument to discredit theists is when you said "that this life is the purpose of our existence" and also "a sad and twisted view of morality and the meaning of humanity."
Just the words "purpose" and "meaning" used in the same context implies a synonomous relationship. And any look into a dictionary would show you that these words go together with other words like design, end and things of that nature. Well if there is a meaning of humanity, surely humans could not have created the meaning because that would imply invention. And definitely we know that something cannot invent/create itself. True, we have a desire of what we want the end to be, but that in no way makes it our purpose.
Therefore, simple logic will conclude that there is no purpose or meaning of humanity. There is only a desire of humanity. But if you really think my response is a load of BS, join the other side. Which are the Christians or other theists who believe in purpose and meaning of life. Remember, somebody or something has to give the meaning and it can't be the object itself. Don't confuse purpose with goals or you have already weakened your argument for no god.
jasondrhm at 5:07PM on Dec 21st 2007
36. How “sher” are you that Shermer “respects what Christianity has done to shape our civilization and our world”? Perhaps he’s just caving to his kids, the same as any other secular Dad whose kids bug him until he buys. Today’s blog isn’t quite as insightful or thought provoking as most others but hey, it’s Christmas. What I’m mainly focused on is the last paragraph and Dinesh’s observation that many nominal Christians have also forgotten the “message” of Christmas. In fact, if I’d written the last paragraph, I’d have said “many nominal Christians have forgotten the Messiah of Christmas”. I’ve just come from the mall and save for that elderly Salvation Army gentleman trumpeting a few carols; one would never know what all the buzz is about. O.K., so His birth was not actually December 25th. So what? That’s when Christians choose to celebrate it and we need to remember, and proclaim, what and Who we are commemorating. It’s not the message; it’s our MESSIAH.
fanmanaf1 at 5:04PM on Dec 21st 2007
37. Dinesh is not stupid. He sounds stupid, but he isn't.
He's evil.
He knows what he's doing. He's thriving off the controversy, a la Ann Coulter. He doesn't even believe half the crap he spews. His type of person is like a tick sucking on the lifeblood of America. The more he promotes division and hatred, the more hateful people buy his books. Mostly hateful christians, by the way. Not the Botts type Christian with a capital "C" either. The "small 'c'" type christians. The hypochrists.
Now, THEY'RE stupid. They are the kind of stupid that thinks menses is a club for smart people and Sherlock Holmes is a housing development. Easy to lead, and easy to get to buy books. Just point them at an "enemy" and piss them off, and they become like a pcak of raving hounds.
Brian at 5:12PM on Dec 21st 2007
38. Well if there is a meaning of humanity, surely humans could not have created the meaning because that would imply invention. And definitely we know that something cannot invent/create itself. True, we have a desire of what we want the end to be, but that in no way makes it our purpose.
-------------------
I think that there is a spiritual basis to all matter and energy, or if you will, that all the universe is is thought, but we think that it's real and solid and tangible, since we're just thoughts too... This is NOT the same as believing in your silly anthropomorphic version of a deity.
With this in mind, I can see that my purpose in life is my personal evolution in both knowledge and my ability to love. To get better at both, as it were. To learn to change and grow. To help others with this, if I can. Since we're all one, and all that.
This is SO different from being religious or a christian that I usually just say that I'm an atheist. It's a lot easier for simple people to understand. And I don't believe in any god, so it's accurate enough. To me, believing in a god seems really primitive. Ooga Booga stuff. I went from being a catholic christian to an agnostic to an atheist to a mystic. And it's not over yet. I enjoy the journey.
The goal of this life is to evolve. Not as in darwinian evolution, but personal evolution. Growth. That should be our purpose.
The better we are as individuals, the better the world will be. Simple logic. Even eric might have a hard time finding the appropriately verbose and cryptic disproff of that one...
Why is this what I consider our purpose? Because it makes sense. If we have a purpose, what nobler one could there be? Praising an egotistical god that needs such praise and sadistically punishes those that do not comply? Yuck! How shallow! I think not. Ooga Booga.
Brian at 5:34PM on Dec 21st 2007
39. Remember Lehrer? He's a bit of a relic, like the Monty Python and the Rocky Horror movies. When I was eighteen and a freshman at Dartmouth I found Lehrer and Monty Python very sophisticated and amusing. Most of us, however, outgrow the juvenile sense of humor that they represent.
xxxx
I guess that means he grew old enough to become the butt of the jokes.
Tom lehrer and the python boys like the marx brothers loved the deflated platitude and the cowpie-in-the-face to the anal retentive puffed up authority figure. Wouldn't groucho have loved denise the groinless?
If you're a real life Margaret Dumont I guess it's pretty humiliating to always find out about it the next day or a week later or something.
In typing that, I just got a mental flash on Harpo, denise and pelvic atheism.
Oh, back to christmas. We usually bake a christian baby but there are vegetarians this year so we're having evangelical eggplant and pentecostal potatoes, but only after we thoroughly waterboard them and make them abandon their faith.
Later we'll gather round the flaming yule dog and entertain each other with non denominational polynomials and perhaps a solemn seasonal plumbing and insulation hymn.
Then as the evening progresses we'll sing the traditional atheist carols
Oxygen to the world
Pennsylvania Town Of Bethlehem
Stay Home, All Ye Faithful
Hark the Steroid Angels sing
Silent Spring
Have yourself a merry little christian (whoa! was that lightning?)
Away in a Macy's
Then we'll print out a pie chart to show how much fun we had.
Clif Kuplen at 5:36PM on Dec 21st 2007
40. LOL @ "Away in a Macy's"
I WILL spend my evening coming up with the rest of the lyrics.
K at 5:41PM on Dec 21st 2007
41. "Controversy" indeed. Mr. D'Souza, you've certainly found your niche in the blogging world. You’re posts are usually very entertaining. No, that is not a "clever" way of calling you stupid, which seems to be a popular thing to do on this blog, even by those decrying your use of ad hominem attacks. On the contrary, you've proven to be quite the fox. Recognizing that creating a lively and sustained debate required writing from the theist's position was very astute. And with your conservative politics, few would doubt the authenticity of the beliefs you claimed. You knew the only way for you to cash in on the atheist-book trend was to try to add balance to the discussion. How many book deals, debate invitations, and blog hits would you have if you followed in the footsteps of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens? The market for atheist books may have reached the saturation point. You wouldn’t be able to make use of the popularity of those atheists at debates if you took the same position as they. Most of the Christians would avoid your blog like the plague, while atheists would quickly tire of your preaching to the choir, especially with no theists to chastise. The theists who frequent your blog want to hear someone with academic credentials proclaim the truth of their beliefs, while many of the atheists simply want to affirm their lack of belief by shooting down what some view as the best the theist camp has to offer. These blogs allow theists and non-theists to pat themselves on the back, each group believing they are taking the intellectual high ground. “Poor, deluded atheists (or theists),” they say. Your posts are expertly crafted to allow plenty of room for bashing by atheists, while not appearing to be at all flawed to the theist taking a cursory glance at your post, not wishing to dissect your arguments because they favor the conclusions. Many of the atheists seem blissfully unaware that you are intentionally providing the ammunition they need to criticize you. Some of the theists just seem downright ignorant. You’ve managed to exploit both groups. I often wonder how much of what you write reflects the beliefs you truly hold. Whatever you believe, it seems doubtful that the arguments you put forth, taken at face value, are an accurate representation of your abilities. Where some see stupidity and thoughts devoid of reason, I see a crafty plan. I suspect the real Dinesh D’Souza is laughing all the way to the bank. Controversy is the lifeblood of your career and you’ve mastered the art of stirring up a hornet’s nest.
James at 5:44PM on Dec 21st 2007
42. Cliff, my wife and I are dying on the floor laughing. Thanks for the comic relief.
My wife suggests that to the tune of "Away in a Manger" you could instead have the lyrics "Two Gays Rape a Stranger..."
She's tired, poor thing.
Brian at 5:44PM on Dec 21st 2007
43. "I personally celebrate the winter solstice:
Merry Solstice, everyone."
And a happy Solstice to you, too, Linda. I am celebrating that today with a very good friend, cooking like mad and listening to George Winston's December...great stuff.
Cheers!
Brandon
brandon at 5:45PM on Dec 21st 2007
44. Ryan Anderson posted:
Seriously... Life of Brian should be required viewing in Public School.
*snicker*
Man in crowd V: Look!
Crowd: Oh, ooh!
Man in crowd III: He has given us a sign!
Man in crowd V: He has given us...his shoe!
Man in crowd III: The shoe is the sign! Let us follow his example!
Man in crowd IV: What?
Man in crowd III: Let us like him, hold up one shoe and let the other one be upon our foot, for this is his sign that all who
follow him shall do likewise!
Man in crowd III: No, no, no, the shoe is a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance!
Woman in crowd II: Cast off the shoes! Follow the gourd!
Man in crowd V: No, let us gather shoes together! Let me!
Woman in crowd: Oh, get off!
Man in crowd IV: No, no, it is a sign that like him we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head!
Man in crowd V: Give me your shoe!
Man in crowd IV: Get off!
Woman in crowd II: Follow the gourd, the holy gourd of Jerusalem!
Gourdy part of crowd: The gourd! The gourd!
Man in crowd VI: Hold up the sandal, like he has demanded us...
Man in crowd III: It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
Man in crowd VI: It's a sandal!
Man in crowd III: No, it is not! It is a shoe!
Woman in crowd II: Cast it away!
Man in crowd III: Put it on!
Man in crowd IV: Now clear off!
Man in crowd V: Take the shoes and follow him!
Woman in crowd II: All thee who follow the gourdie!
Merry [insert whatever suits you] everyone! And Happy New Micro-Aeon!
torquemada at 5:52PM on Dec 21st 2007
45. My granddaughters eyes really bugged out when she finally broke open the D'Souza pinata.
JefFlyingV at 5:53PM on Dec 21st 2007