31. How “sher” are you that Shermer “respects what Christianity has done to shape our civilization and our world”? Perhaps he’s just caving to his kids, the same as any other secular Dad whose kids bug him until he buys. Today’s blog isn’t quite as insightful or thought provoking as most others but hey, it’s Christmas. What I’m mainly focused on is the last paragraph and Dinesh’s observation that many nominal Christians have also forgotten the “message” of Christmas. In fact, if I’d written the last paragraph, I’d have said “many nominal Christians have forgotten the Messiah of Christmas”. I’ve just come from the mall and save for that elderly Salvation Army gentleman trumpeting a few carols; one would never know what all the buzz is about. O.K., so His birth was not actually December 25th. So what? That’s when Christians choose to celebrate it and we need to remember, and proclaim, what and Who we are commemorating. It’s not the message; it’s our MESSIAH.

fanmanaf1 at 5:04PM on Dec 21st 2007

32. 8.

Religion has shaped the way everybody looks at the world, whether good or bad. Immoral theists and Immoral athiests, good point, but without hard evidence, I will have to say that comment is just a shot in the dark. Next, you have to understand the true meaning of belief and non-belief. But the weakest points in your whole argument to discredit theists is when you said "that this life is the purpose of our existence" and also "a sad and twisted view of morality and the meaning of humanity."

Just the words "purpose" and "meaning" used in the same context implies a synonomous relationship. And any look into a dictionary would show you that these words go together with other words like design, end and things of that nature. Well if there is a meaning of humanity, surely humans could not have created the meaning because that would imply invention. And definitely we know that something cannot invent/create itself. True, we have a desire of what we want the end to be, but that in no way makes it our purpose.

Therefore, simple logic will conclude that there is no purpose or meaning of humanity. There is only a desire of humanity. But if you really think my response is a load of BS, join the other side. Which are the Christians or other theists who believe in purpose and meaning of life. Remember, somebody or something has to give the meaning and it can't be the object itself. Don't confuse purpose with goals or you have already weakened your argument for no god.

jasondrhm at 5:07PM on Dec 21st 2007

33. Dinesh is not stupid. He sounds stupid, but he isn't.

He's evil.

He knows what he's doing. He's thriving off the controversy, a la Ann Coulter. He doesn't even believe half the crap he spews. His type of person is like a tick sucking on the lifeblood of America. The more he promotes division and hatred, the more hateful people buy his books. Mostly hateful christians, by the way. Not the Botts type Christian with a capital "C" either. The "small 'c'" type christians. The hypochrists.
Now, THEY'RE stupid. They are the kind of stupid that thinks menses is a club for smart people and Sherlock Holmes is a housing development. Easy to lead, and easy to get to buy books. Just point them at an "enemy" and piss them off, and they become like a pcak of raving hounds.

Brian at 5:12PM on Dec 21st 2007

34. Well if there is a meaning of humanity, surely humans could not have created the meaning because that would imply invention. And definitely we know that something cannot invent/create itself. True, we have a desire of what we want the end to be, but that in no way makes it our purpose.
-------------------
I think that there is a spiritual basis to all matter and energy, or if you will, that all the universe is is thought, but we think that it's real and solid and tangible, since we're just thoughts too... This is NOT the same as believing in your silly anthropomorphic version of a deity.

With this in mind, I can see that my purpose in life is my personal evolution in both knowledge and my ability to love. To get better at both, as it were. To learn to change and grow. To help others with this, if I can. Since we're all one, and all that.

This is SO different from being religious or a christian that I usually just say that I'm an atheist. It's a lot easier for simple people to understand. And I don't believe in any god, so it's accurate enough. To me, believing in a god seems really primitive. Ooga Booga stuff. I went from being a catholic christian to an agnostic to an atheist to a mystic. And it's not over yet. I enjoy the journey.

The goal of this life is to evolve. Not as in darwinian evolution, but personal evolution. Growth. That should be our purpose.

The better we are as individuals, the better the world will be. Simple logic. Even eric might have a hard time finding the appropriately verbose and cryptic disproff of that one...

Why is this what I consider our purpose? Because it makes sense. If we have a purpose, what nobler one could there be? Praising an egotistical god that needs such praise and sadistically punishes those that do not comply? Yuck! How shallow! I think not. Ooga Booga.

Brian at 5:34PM on Dec 21st 2007

35. Remember Lehrer? He's a bit of a relic, like the Monty Python and the Rocky Horror movies. When I was eighteen and a freshman at Dartmouth I found Lehrer and Monty Python very sophisticated and amusing. Most of us, however, outgrow the juvenile sense of humor that they represent.

xxxx

I guess that means he grew old enough to become the butt of the jokes.

Tom lehrer and the python boys like the marx brothers loved the deflated platitude and the cowpie-in-the-face to the anal retentive puffed up authority figure. Wouldn't groucho have loved denise the groinless?

If you're a real life Margaret Dumont I guess it's pretty humiliating to always find out about it the next day or a week later or something.

In typing that, I just got a mental flash on Harpo, denise and pelvic atheism.

Oh, back to christmas. We usually bake a christian baby but there are vegetarians this year so we're having evangelical eggplant and pentecostal potatoes, but only after we thoroughly waterboard them and make them abandon their faith.

Later we'll gather round the flaming yule dog and entertain each other with non denominational polynomials and perhaps a solemn seasonal plumbing and insulation hymn.

Then as the evening progresses we'll sing the traditional atheist carols

Oxygen to the world

Pennsylvania Town Of Bethlehem

Stay Home, All Ye Faithful

Hark the Steroid Angels sing

Silent Spring

Have yourself a merry little christian (whoa! was that lightning?)

Away in a Macy's

Then we'll print out a pie chart to show how much fun we had.

Clif Kuplen at 5:36PM on Dec 21st 2007

36. LOL @ "Away in a Macy's"

I WILL spend my evening coming up with the rest of the lyrics.

K at 5:41PM on Dec 21st 2007

37. Cliff, my wife and I are dying on the floor laughing. Thanks for the comic relief.

My wife suggests that to the tune of "Away in a Manger" you could instead have the lyrics "Two Gays Rape a Stranger..."

She's tired, poor thing.

Brian at 5:44PM on Dec 21st 2007

38. "Controversy" indeed. Mr. D'Souza, you've certainly found your niche in the blogging world. You’re posts are usually very entertaining. No, that is not a "clever" way of calling you stupid, which seems to be a popular thing to do on this blog, even by those decrying your use of ad hominem attacks. On the contrary, you've proven to be quite the fox. Recognizing that creating a lively and sustained debate required writing from the theist's position was very astute. And with your conservative politics, few would doubt the authenticity of the beliefs you claimed. You knew the only way for you to cash in on the atheist-book trend was to try to add balance to the discussion. How many book deals, debate invitations, and blog hits would you have if you followed in the footsteps of Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens? The market for atheist books may have reached the saturation point. You wouldn’t be able to make use of the popularity of those atheists at debates if you took the same position as they. Most of the Christians would avoid your blog like the plague, while atheists would quickly tire of your preaching to the choir, especially with no theists to chastise. The theists who frequent your blog want to hear someone with academic credentials proclaim the truth of their beliefs, while many of the atheists simply want to affirm their lack of belief by shooting down what some view as the best the theist camp has to offer. These blogs allow theists and non-theists to pat themselves on the back, each group believing they are taking the intellectual high ground. “Poor, deluded atheists (or theists),” they say. Your posts are expertly crafted to allow plenty of room for bashing by atheists, while not appearing to be at all flawed to the theist taking a cursory glance at your post, not wishing to dissect your arguments because they favor the conclusions. Many of the atheists seem blissfully unaware that you are intentionally providing the ammunition they need to criticize you. Some of the theists just seem downright ignorant. You’ve managed to exploit both groups. I often wonder how much of what you write reflects the beliefs you truly hold. Whatever you believe, it seems doubtful that the arguments you put forth, taken at face value, are an accurate representation of your abilities. Where some see stupidity and thoughts devoid of reason, I see a crafty plan. I suspect the real Dinesh D’Souza is laughing all the way to the bank. Controversy is the lifeblood of your career and you’ve mastered the art of stirring up a hornet’s nest.

James at 5:44PM on Dec 21st 2007

39. "I personally celebrate the winter solstice:

Merry Solstice, everyone."

And a happy Solstice to you, too, Linda. I am celebrating that today with a very good friend, cooking like mad and listening to George Winston's December...great stuff.

Cheers!
Brandon

brandon at 5:45PM on Dec 21st 2007

40. Ryan Anderson posted:

Seriously... Life of Brian should be required viewing in Public School.

*snicker*

Man in crowd V: Look!
Crowd: Oh, ooh!
Man in crowd III: He has given us a sign!
Man in crowd V: He has given us...his shoe!
Man in crowd III: The shoe is the sign! Let us follow his example!
Man in crowd IV: What?
Man in crowd III: Let us like him, hold up one shoe and let the other one be upon our foot, for this is his sign that all who
follow him shall do likewise!
Man in crowd III: No, no, no, the shoe is a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance!
Woman in crowd II: Cast off the shoes! Follow the gourd!
Man in crowd V: No, let us gather shoes together! Let me!
Woman in crowd: Oh, get off!
Man in crowd IV: No, no, it is a sign that like him we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head!
Man in crowd V: Give me your shoe!
Man in crowd IV: Get off!
Woman in crowd II: Follow the gourd, the holy gourd of Jerusalem!
Gourdy part of crowd: The gourd! The gourd!
Man in crowd VI: Hold up the sandal, like he has demanded us...
Man in crowd III: It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
Man in crowd VI: It's a sandal!
Man in crowd III: No, it is not! It is a shoe!
Woman in crowd II: Cast it away!
Man in crowd III: Put it on!
Man in crowd IV: Now clear off!
Man in crowd V: Take the shoes and follow him!
Woman in crowd II: All thee who follow the gourdie!

Merry [insert whatever suits you] everyone! And Happy New Micro-Aeon!

torquemada at 5:52PM on Dec 21st 2007

41. My granddaughters eyes really bugged out when she finally broke open the D'Souza pinata.

JefFlyingV at 5:53PM on Dec 21st 2007

42. as an athiest i celebrate christmas anyway i want to. who buys d'souza's books, by the way? has anyone here ever gone to one of his debates? the poor man really does need to get a life.

rose at 5:56PM on Dec 21st 2007

43. I think that there is a spiritual basis to all matter and energy, or if you will, that all the universe is is thought, but we think that it's real and solid and tangible, since we're just thoughts too... This is NOT the same as believing in your silly anthropomorphic version of a deity.

_______________________

Well then Brian, you've certainly done your homework. Spiritual rather than religious or Christian is a good point, but all in all you say some of the same things. Just go about it differently.

Ha ha Ooga Booga, well since you think my post implies I'm Christian, I will continue on that route. The Christian Ooga Booga or the Thought Ooga Booga. Come on man, you just admitted that there is something higher than humans. If we are in a thought, then there has to be something to have the thought.

This is NOT the same as believing in your silly anthropomorphic version of a deity? Ha, whoever said that was the deity's only form? And to deny the deity of another or many forms only denies the deity of being all powerful. So your assumption that the diety has only human characteristics means nothing, because if you had to give up your erroneous assumption(based upon the fact that it is false, because the information you got that the deity has human form is also the same deity considered omnipotent) you would agree that your spiritual view is one and the same of a deity view.

jasondrhm at 6:05PM on Dec 21st 2007

44. James, you are of course correct. And I've realized that for a while now. That's what I refer to when I call DD a "tick"...

I still will tell the christians what I think of them, though. If for no other reason, just to tell someone on that side of the fence about what they're doing to the country and the world, even if they don't listen, or can't because they're addled, or whatever. It's just too frustrating NOT to post.

And also, they are entertaining, in a twisted way. Funny.

But not very funny, it's true. Who can laugh for long at such ignorance? I never realized just how many people in this country were completely ignorant of science, logic, reason, or even basic grammar and vocabulary, until I started blogging at MSNBC and here. Now I can understand WHY someone like George W. Bush was elected president. It would have remained a mystery to me if I had never known how many people are blinded by their faith. I was assuming that he'd rigged the election, but now I can see that he didn't have to. He simply took advantage of a previously rigged system, already in place... Christianity!

So it's educational for me. So much stupidity would have been incomprehensible to me if these kind people hadn't provided me with much-needed knowledge of how they think. Or rather, don't. They believe. No thought required.

Brian at 6:06PM on Dec 21st 2007

45. Brian posted:

I went from being a catholic christian to an agnostic to an atheist to a mystic. And it's not over yet. I enjoy the journey.

The goal of this life is to evolve. Not as in darwinian evolution, but personal evolution. Growth. That should be our purpose.

The better we are as individuals, the better the world will be. Simple logic.

*******

Can I get a hallelujah from the congregation!

torquemada at 6:14PM on Dec 21st 2007