In response to my blog yesterday noting that the cultural left opposes democracy in the Muslim world, several people expressed indignation. One challenged me to provide a single example. Others lugubriously noted that they favored the idea of democracy but alas it wasn't succeeding in Iraq. Certainly it does seem odd that a left which is always calling for "more democracy" in America would resist democracy in Muslim countries.
Yet it's true, and my book The Enemy at Home provides chapter and verse. For instance, the leftist author Robert Fisk resolutely opposed America's attempt to introduce democracy in Afghanistan. Incredibly Fisk said that the Taliban government should be kept in power because it had nothing to do with 9/11. Leftist Howard Zinn also equated America's displacement of the Taliban and holding of free elections with the 9/11 attacks themselves, as though both were equivalent crimes. Leftist legal scholar Richard Falk called for a "negotiated settlement" with the Taliban in order to protect the country's "sovereign rights." If leading leftists such as Edward Said, Toni Morison, Jesse Jackson, Barbara Ehrenreich, Jane Fonda and Jim McDermott had their way, the U.S. would not have overthrown the Taliban government and Afghanistan would not have had free elections.
Immediately following the U.S. invasion of Iraq, leftist philanthropist George Soros warned that "I would consider Iraq the last place to choose for a demonstration project" in democracy. Why the Iraqis were ineligible to rule themselves, Soros did not say. When Iraq had its first free election, columnist Bob Herbert said it meant nothing because "a real democracy requires an informed electorate" while the Iraqi people were "woefully uninformed," apparently because they didn't make the choices that Herbert wanted. Leftist columnist Robert Dreyfuss said the Iraqi elections were invalid because "the Sunni community was tricked into voting" and moreover the elected Sunnis "do not represent the resistance." Apparently Dreyfuss thinks car bombers need representation too! Ivan Eland wrote in The American Prospect, "Spreading democracy doesn't reduce terrorism and, if anything, actually makes it worse." How democracy promotes terrorism, Eland neglected to explain.
Notice how the cultural left routinely condemns Bush for "hypocrisy" in using the rhetoric of democracy while the U.S. is allied with secular despots, but very rarely do leftists call for free elections in countries like Syria, Egypt or Saudi Arabia. There was even some cheering on the left when Turkish generals threatened a coup to subvert the elected government from holding free elections a few months ago. So why does the left hate democracy in the Muslim world? The reason is simple. Muslims are socially conservative and generally want a greater role for Islam in their private and public lives. Consequently Muslim democracies are likely to be more conservative socially than they are when secular despots rule them. The left fears Muslim democracy because it is terrified of Muslim values, especially sharia or Muslim holy law. Feminists and gays are not likely to fare very well under Muslim holy law.
When Iraqis rejected secular candidates and voted for a party that pledged to have sharia, at least in some forms of domestic law, the New York TImes howled that democracy could be "consigning Iraqi women to a life of subjugation." Columnist Maureen Dowd warned that "the Iraqi election may actually be making things worse" because "it is going to expand the control of the Shia theocrats." These complaints might have some plausibility if women or Sunnis were not permitted to vote. But women and men both voted for the Dawa party, and so essentially the Times and Dowd were arguing that if Iraqis don't want equal roles for men and women, their democracy is a sham.
Bush's attempt to introduce democracy to Iraq, and to expand the role of democracy in Egypt, Lebanon and Pakistan, is a brave and noble experiment. It might fail, and past historical experience is not promising. But if Bush succeeds we could see the beginning of an historical transformation no less significant than the transformation of the old Soviet Union. No wonder the left, not usually given to supplication, is praying very ardently this Christmas season that Bush does not succeed. If democracy fails, in Iraq and elsewhere, there is the added benefit that Democrats will have a better chance to take the White House in 2008.
Mo Rocca has appeared on a bunch of shows, including 'The Daily Show,' 'I Love the 80s,'...
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Why the Left Hates Democracy
Posted Dec 28th 2007 1:32PM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Breaking News, Iraq, Cultural Left, Islamic Radicals, Controversy
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Reader Comments ( Page 26 of 27)
376. #209.......Can you find one word that says its ok to murder for oil?
I am a christian and pro life. Thats all life.
Now, the point was that oil is one of the life bloods of our economy. And the life blood of other nations.
What I imply is that when some despot wants to destroy western civilization it is easy . Just cut off oil. How many do you suppose would die if
that happened? That would also lead to other major conquences.
Travel would eventually stop, food scarce, businesses bankrupt, and in all effects, many would die just as if a bomb were dropped.
A decision would have to be made. Would you want to make it???
I don't thik we could ever beat Sadam's record for killimg children.
And there would still be, if we weren't there,
a killing regime which beat with rods, cut out tongues, electrocuted men, put them through shredders, torture chambers, beheadings, neglected
animals in zoos, crimes against women to numerous to mention and look those facts up with your other facts. Oh, I forgot hands cut off and all without anesethics.
And never mistake this, his goal was to do that to
any and all of us if he had the chance.
I wish those children were safe in their mother's arms as I wish for any child. But the reality is that King Soloman couldn't figure this one out to
EVERYONE'S benefit and security.
I don't have all answers and if we lose our own children in the future.
This is too complex and in a world full of evil
who knows who is the more or most evil.
Does killing some, save many? That is the ultimate question.
The best we can do is pray for wisdom.
Was 600,000 lives worth freeing our slaves?
I'm done for now. I am just glad God didn't appoint me as judge over the earth.
A.V.Brown at 6:31AM on Jan 1st 2008
377. 370. Cliff - One other thing: All the United States Supreme Court did was slap down the Florida Supreme Court, which was acting as a rogue court, had exceeded it's authority and was changing election law
xxxx
absolute pure foxfart sniffing. Get that on the Bill Islamoreilly show?
I have spent plenty of my time in life as a litgation manager on issues before appellate and state supreme courts. Buies is a far better jurist than any he faced including anyone on the supreme court.
His argument was PURELY STATUTORY and was unassailable.
It's as simple as this: you get two from column A or two from column B, per florida law, not one from each, as Katherine Harris attempted to foist off.
NO responsible state supreme court justice could refute his own statute.
That would make him a liberal left wing activist.
The US supreme court had NO jurisdiction over a purely states' rights issue, and if you say otherwise, you're a god damned left wing comsymp NUTCASE!
READ the USSC decision - what was there reason for awarding the election to Bush and wiping their asses on Florida jurisdiction and stuatute? It would inflict a hardship on George Bush.
I have no patience with you fuzzy thinking so-far-right-you're-left hippie comsymp chickenhawk kumbaya singing america sellouts.
Look what you've done to government and society. Red China owns us.
Clif Kuplen at 12:46PM on Jan 1st 2008
378. The extremes remain as Communism and Fascism, both of which are so far to the left and right of center respectively, that they actually have much in common with each other
xxx
That's about as misinformed as anything I've read here yet, from Ken Berg.
Ken, there are similarities between totalitarian socialism and fascism in terms of the plight of the common individual but the two similar failed utopian small government philosophies are Communism and Libertarianism.
Communism works fine for communities that are small enough that everyone literally knows everyone else, but for anything larger, it fails.
Libertarianism has always failed. It is older than communism and has nothing but failure as a track record.
This confusion of types of totalitarianism seems to be a tactic of the far right neoliberal republicanist party. Republicanism/neoliberalism is the reason responsible republicans are abandoning their party until it's detoxified and suitable for habitation by patriotic americans.
Clif Kuplen at 1:00PM on Jan 1st 2008
379. "Whose side are you on?" --DENA
I don't have time to read everyone's comments today because I'm busy. But DENA, I am SOOOO glad you asked!
That question alone exposes you for the regpugnant fascist that you are! For you see, only a fascist divides the world into "sides" because a fascist needs an opposing "side" to rationalize and justify their actions.
And that was exactly my point! Your side rationalizes that you're killing in the name of justice while the other side rationalizes that they're killing in the name of justice. Meanwhile, both sides go on killing...killing innocent people, including children.
So, rationalize your killing however you need just to help you sleep at night. You still epitomize fascism: unquestioning nationalism.
Whose side I am on?
I'm on the "side" that wants to justify and rationalizes NOT killing innocent people. And I'm proud of that. In fact, I'd be ashamed of myself if I were on ANY other side.
See, DENA, the world's patience with war-mongering barbarians like you has grown short. We're tired of the killing in the name of God, oil, money, water, democracy, or just for the shits and giggles of it all.
THAT'S whose side I'm on! And I've got a lot of great company on this side...and I'm sure you'll rationalize and justify the notion of killing us all.
Paul at 3:17PM on Jan 1st 2008
380. "Dr. Dobson had to be included in your organizations? We demand Jerry Falwell, ( yes, he is dead now) were being forced down your throats? We could hear the Screams for miles." AV Brown
AV Brown...
If you could list just one organization that receives public funds and STILL excludes either of those individuals then you would have a valid point.
For you see, it is neither fair nor just to demand that citizens in the US pay taxes which fund (in part) any organization to which they cannot belong. The BSA excludes homosexuals. Homosexuals pay taxes. Taxes partially fund the BSA. Homosexuals should be permitted to join an organization that they partially fund.
Prohibiting them from joining the BSA is neither fair nor just. Prohibiting them from joining is just like the local Country Club demanding that you pay dues to fund their fairway maintenance while prohibiting you from using the facilities that you actually pay to maintain.
Now honestly, does that sound fair to you?
If the BSA wants to exclude homosexuals then they should stop accepting tax money from homosexuals. They should stop using facilities that homosexuals (in part) fund with their hard-earned tax dollars.
But on a deeper level, if the BSA GENUINELY believed in God, and GENUINELY believed in God's power to change a homosexual into a heterosexual then the BSA would ENTHUSIASTICALLY welcome ALL homosexuals and the opportunity to work God's magic on a another sinful soul!
Their reluctance to allow homosexuals, however, clearly betrays the BSA's core belief that homosexuality cannot actually be "cured" as Christianity professes. And the BSA is afraid that they might have to acknowledge that many of us are actually bisexual, by no choice of our own.
Paul at 4:45PM on Jan 1st 2008
381. Millions of Christians in the USA do NOT subscribe to the decadent hedonism exported by Hollywood. We love, honor, and serve God. We value strong families. We do our very best to live morally clean, honorable lives as he has taught us to do. Surely there must be a way to get the word out to Muslims who see America as the embodiment of evil --largely because of the arrogant, godless, wicked image put forth as "America" by the arrogant, godless, wicked, leftist media--that the "real" America is none of those things. The real America is God-fearing, family-loving, and honorable. "Real" Americans respect virtue and integrity. They don't swear. They don't fornicate, and they certainly don't commit adultery. They work hard to support their families, they pray with their kids, and they are grateful to God Almighty for the opportunity to serve their families, friends and communities.
How can we help our jihadist "enemies" understand that real Americans are just as sickened and appaulled at the wanton wickedness thrust upon us by "our" media as the devout Muslims are?
It is not America that is the "Great Satan." It is the servant of the Dragon that is --the morally bankrupt media machine.
Karen Phelps at 8:46PM on Jan 1st 2008
382. 380. Millions of Christians in the USA do NOT subscribe to the decadent hedonism exported by Hollywood. We love, honor, and serve God.
xxxx
and elect hollywood stars like Reagan and Schwarzeneggar and accept endorsements by the likes of Chuck Norris.
I don't know why the neoliberal right is so enamored by the hollywood culture. Sonny Bono and George Murphy are a couple more of these neoleftcoast hollywood political flyweights that the libertarian fascist right is so hell bent on imitating.
Most of us do not approve of decadent hedonists like Jack Abramoff, who created sweatshops and sex slave rings in the south pacific, or predators like Larry Craig or Mark Foley or johns like Vitters.
In general, the democratic party has looked down on that kind of hypocrisy. Even though Vitters perpetrated a criminal act and clinton for example did not, the republicanists were apparently so glad he wasn't gay they gave him a standing ovation for breaking the law and not answering for it.
Once again in slow motion: a standing ovation for breaking the law and fornicating with a whore. Great family values, huh.
Not that I care all that much, but that's going to be a damn strange trophy on his mantelpiece right next to the crucifix, huh.
I'm sure it's cute when republicanists do it though.
Your hollywood monkey boy Ron Reagan is the original reason we've been victimized by Osama bin Laden. OBL wrote that when Reagan cut and ran from Lebanon, that was what emboldened him to confront the United States.
Reagans mussoliniist/libertarian economic policies were the beginning of the undoing of the United States.
Before reagan we were the largest creditor nation on earth and afterwards the largest debtor despite the fact he raised taxes SIX times and STILL looted the treasury.
Now we're on our way to third world status with poor national health, inadequate literacy, trillions in debt to the CHINESE COMMUNISTS and an economy that exports more raw materials than manufactured goods.
Haiti, here we comes! Thanks, republicanists!
You love honor and serve yourselves and pick only the scripture that suits your needs. If you think fundamentalism is anything other than a small splinter of americans, you are greatly mistaken.
I don't see much more than the attitude of the pharisees in statements like that and I'd like to think civiliziation has come a little farther in the past 2000 years.
Which is on of the million reasons why I'm not a dominionist or part of the treasonous hollywood worshipping far right!
Clif Kuplen at 10:43PM on Jan 1st 2008
383. Can the Hubble see to the end of space and through all dimensions of space?
xxx
yep. Are you saying something else?
Clif Kuplen at 10:59PM on Jan 1st 2008
384. "In this case, the admin operates with impunity because they weren't lawfully elected in the first place "
Once again I will act in the words of one individual "Intellectually dishonestly"
They are still hung up on their perception of what transpired eight(8) years ago. The can not let go.
Talk about "being stuck in the past"
M2D5 at 8:30AM on Jan 2nd 2008
385. They are still hung up on their perception of what transpired eight(8) years ago. The can not let go.
Talk about "being stuck in the past"
xxxx
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Perhaps you've heard of the failures in Iraq based on the selective memory of people like Cheney who knew full well the consequenses of toppling Hussein in 1990 but conveniently 'forgot' when it was profitable.
Who do you think is dumb enough to believe that bullshit?
If you have nothing but short term memory I'm not the least bit surprised. Republicanists are known more for their bumper sticker mentality, greed, deviousness and treachery (even to the point of treason) than for their intellect.
Anyway it's a typical right wing neoliberal canard. You have blamed bill clinton for every trespass your party is guilty of. We don't buy that bullshit either.
Election fraud, not voter fraud, which is miniscule, is the major issue in perpetuation of democracy. Election rigging is the longtime provence of the republicanists. Remember Watergate? Naw, didn't happen last week...
The Goodling testimony against the AG's office and affirmation of the practice of widespread caging brings that to the fore.
Stalin knew that he who controls the counting controls elections, and there's not much difference between his agenda and methodology and the rove/neoliberal republicanist so-far-right-they're-left agenda.
The corruption of the republicanist party and the out and out treasonous 'win by any means possible' agenda is part of the third world syndrome that comes from letting unrestrained capitalism infiltrate and redirect constitutional government and SETTLED LAW as has been done since Reagans' time.
Mussoliniist on the inside, communist on the outside. Death to the middle class.
There's no chance ANYONE is going to forget! One way or the other, this country is going back to center.
Clif Kuplen at 1:13PM on Jan 2nd 2008
386.
DINESH,
WHERE YOU EDUCATED? RUSH LIMBAUGH UNIVERSITY?????
Njcronk at 10:15PM on Jan 2nd 2008
387.
HOWARD ZINN FOR PRESIDENT.
Njcronk at 10:18PM on Jan 2nd 2008
388. #384
"Election fraud, not voter fraud, which is miniscule, is the major issue in perpetuation of democracy. Election rigging is the longtime provence of the republicanists. Remember Watergate? Naw, didn't happen last week...
"
First I am not a Replublican, so that shoots down most of your rant regarding how Republicans are the real evil doers.
Secondly, I watched watergate unfold, it had to do with illegal wiretapping, breakins, campaign dirty tricks , and the subsequent attempted coverup. It brought down Nixon and rightly so.
As far a crooked elections go, I am born and raised in Massachusetts where the art of crooked elections was raised to an art form.
Lastly, how come when someone may differ from your viewpoint it requires an automatic assumption on your part as the political affiliation and or mindset? I have read many of your postings Clif, and I find them interesting to read and quite amusing at times. I think that you may share a lot in common with "Rhodalee" but not as far out.
M2D5 at 8:02AM on Jan 3rd 2008
389. Lastly, how come when someone may differ from your viewpoint it requires an automatic assumption on your part as the political affiliation and or mindset?
xxx
That would depend on how they differ and from what position they wish to argue, or if they'd simply prefer to dissemble and play the dozens, like the guy who had no clue regarding the statutory argument before the florida supreme court that was televised.
I think there are some absolutes related to fundamentalist dogma, and I believe there are political absolutes as well regarding dogma and reality. Way o' the world.
If I anticipate them from having read the same 'you are me' talking points that seem to hem everyone in, it saves time.
If I'm wrong, all they have to do is reply and illustrate why or call me a big fat poopyhead. Usually it's just the latter.
I'm no more inflammatory than d. the g., a. of p.a and p of i. or whoever wants to play the dozens.
I do capitalize on the fact that d. the g. has no understanding of american humor and his place in it, but who wouldn't?
the point of watergate was to rig the election, like I said. I'm not sure how your post relates to that other than to illustrate the means.
I spent seventeen years in massachusetts. I know more about corruption there than you are likely to and am in another state because of it and what I tried to do about some of it. I wrote a book about the experience, but it's not for publication, just to remind me.
As far as what you are, I'm not your political keeper. You're welcome to believe what you want and vote like you want but I'm especially interested in votes determining elections. Presumably every american should be, but read here and you'll find out otherwise.
Clif Kuplen at 12:09PM on Jan 3rd 2008
390. #389
"I spent seventeen years in massachusetts. I know more about corruption there than you are likely to and am in another state because of it and what I tried to do about some of it. I wrote a book about the experience, but it's not for publication, just to remind me."
I am impressed. At least I would be , if I were to place some creditability in your statements. Unfortunately, the internet allows individuals to acquire bits of information and to be whatever their imagination can come up with. Just like Rhodalee. Your statements definitely would be more credible if it were not for some of your posting that do seem over the top sometimes.
M2D5 at 2:15PM on Jan 3rd 2008