Asked by a British member of Parliament if he is one of those atheists who wants to get rid of Christian symbols especially during the Christmas season, atheist Richard Dawkins replied that he is not. Dawkins said that he himself sings Christmas carols and that he considers himself a "cultural Christian." Just as many Jews regard themselves as Jewish, defend Jewish interests and cherish Jewish culture while not participating in Jewish religious rituals, Dawkins says that he respects the fact that the history and traditions of the West are shaped by Christianity. Dawkins says he's not one of those who wants to purge the West of its Christian traditions. The main threat to Christian symbols, Dawkins argues, does not come from atheists like him but rather from Muslims and members of other faiths.
Now this is quite remarkable. In The God Delusion, Dawkins portrayed the Christian God as a wicked, avaricious, capricious, genocidal maniac. Dawkins even blasted Jesus for such offenses as speaking harshly to his mother. Yet if the Jewish and Christian God was such a monster, what sense does it make for Dawkins to embrace the cultural influence of that deity? It would be like someone saying, "Hitler was a murderous maniac, but I am a cultural Nazi. No, I don't embrace the specifics of Nazi doctrine, but I appreciate what fascism has done to shape German culture. Let's give up the specifics of the Hitler program, but let's also keep Nazi culture along with the fuhrer's imagery on our coins and monuments."
Dawkins is not an unintelligent man, so what's going on here? One possibility is that Dawkins now recognizes that today's atheists who want to get rid of Christian symbols are just as intolerant as Christians who in the pst sought to deny atheists a voice in the public arena. So Dawkins' statement can be read as a critique of intolerance and political correctness.
A second possibility is that Dawkins now sees the Muslim threat to the West--and especially European culture--as more serious than the prospect of a second Christian Inquisition, so he has decided to ally with the Christians against the Islamic radicals. Other atheists like Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens are now admitting that atheist attempts to equate Islamic extremism with Christianity are bogus. The real threat doesn't come from Presbyterianism or Anglicanism but from a radical Islam that wants to obliterate Western civilization.
I suspect that these two factors may have played a role, but the main reason for Dawkins' remarkable self-identification as a cultural Christian is that he has slowly come to realize that even the values that he cherishes--values such as individual dignity, science as an autonomous enterprise, the equal dignity of women, the abolition of slavery, and compassion as a social virtue--came into the West because of Christianity. I have been hammering this point in my debates with leading atheists, and it's possible that one of the Oxford historians came up to Dawkins and said, to his horror, "You know, Richard, that D'Souza chap has a point."
Okay, so let's give this biologist credit for learning a little history. Still, the deeper question remains. If the God of the Old and New Testaments is such a bad character, how come his cultural influence is so positive? Absent a good answer to this question, we must reconsider the premise: perhaps the God of the Old and New Testaments is not the evil figure portrayed in atheist propaganda. On the contrary, perhaps all our Western notions of good and bad derive from no source other than this Christian God. This certainly was Nietzsche's view, and he knew a lot more about the subject than Richard Dawkins. Wouldn't it be interesting if Dawkins continues his intellectual growth and reverses his old misunderstandings? Then he can reissue his book: Overcoming My Delusions: Confessions of a Cultural Christian.
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Richard Dawkins Calls Himself A "Cultural Christian"
Posted Dec 31st 2007 2:07PM by Dinesh D'Souza
Filed under: Christianity, History, Controversy, Atheism
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Reader Comments ( Page 4 of 57)
46. Emily; we offer actual biblical references to support our point and you ask why we "presume" to know more about the bible?
I can't speak for anyone else on this board, but my knowledge of the bible is what made me realize it's merely a compilation of historical documents.
Ryan Anderson at 5:10PM on Dec 31st 2007
47. More importantly, where did you earn your doctorate in theology? Did you and Rita study together?
If you don't have a doctorate in theology or Biblical studies then your analogy [This would be like me going up to a physicist and arguing about quantum mechanics.] holds no water because you are NOT like the physicist who has studied for years AND has the degrees to prove his/her frequently tested knowledge of quantum mechanics.
Paul at 5:11PM on Dec 31st 2007
48. Well said Tom. I've heard this phenomenon refered to as "irritanment"
Ryan Anderson at 5:13PM on Dec 31st 2007
49. Oh, wait a second! I get it now!
You read the Bible just like the rest of us poor schmucks do, but you somehow reap an understanding of it far superior to the rest of humanity's understanding!
Hey, don't radical Muslims think EXACTLY like that when it comes to their sacred Qur'an?
Paul at 5:18PM on Dec 31st 2007
50. Emily, your ignorance is showing. Slavery is condoned in the bible.
And yes, you are trying to threaten me with dire consequences after I die. Do you know how childish and idiotic that is, Emily? Any clue? Look: you may be scared of the boogeyman, like a terrified little child who's just snuck down to watch the late-night horror flick and is now too scared to sleep, but I'm an adult. I'm not taken in by your boogeyman. It's just a myth.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 5:23PM on Dec 31st 2007
51. Hey Fundies (Rita, Emily)
The bible is a compilation of plagiarized stories with the names of the gods and heroes changed. Yahweh changed his name in Moses' era. Before that he was a jealous mountain dweller who in exchange for proper worship gave the wandering Israelites all the land in the prosperous Levant! What a materialistic god!
Jesus was a failed messiah who was charged with sedition and hung on a cross as others who opposed Roman rule did. The messiahship was a Jewish invention then the Christians came along and stole it from the Jews and changed it to fit their needs. A messiah is supposed to restore an earthly kingdom for the Israelites, as king. Nothing more.
Read the histories of the Mesopotamian peoples, the Hittites, the Egyptians, the Aramenaens, the Persians, the Canaanites and so much more. Read about the political situations of the times, the culture and other religions. Don't blind your self with a fictitious book. History, archeology, linguistics have all debunked the bible of its godly authorship!
goddess1prevail at 5:26PM on Dec 31st 2007
52. Actually, Emily, both the OT and jesus said to keep all 613 laws.
You really need to read the bible, Emily.
Knight_of_BAAWA at 5:25PM on Dec 31st 2007
53. Emily reply to,
Any Christian who studies the bible knows that the ten commandments are null and void! Even the old testament states that they are, in essence, null and void.
-----------------------------------------
Emily hi, The only part of the law that was done away with was the sacrificial law.
You will find in the New Testament Jesus taught the ten comandments.
Under the Law it was impossible for a person to live in the flesh and not transgress the law.
The Law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Grace.
Under the law, the blood sacrifices covered the sins of the people , in that it was week, were by it could not take away sins.
Thru the blood sacrifice of Jesus, we are able to receive foregiveness of sins. not to be remembered against us no more.
The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. We don't live under the law, were in it taught do and live, or don't do and die.
A perfect example of this is when Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultrey, under the law she would have been stoned to death.
Under the New Testament or Grace plan she received mercy.
Observant at 5:26PM on Dec 31st 2007
54. So observant you are. You take every word of the bible as truth? Are you related to Milton Bradley? It must've been rough for those people alive 6,000 years ago to share the earth with dinosaurs.
Greg at 5:32PM on Dec 31st 2007
55. God-less one,
The devil is doing his job well.
He has been able to decive you, with not much effort.
Observant at 5:32PM on Dec 31st 2007
56. We cannot prove god doesn't exist (some atheist will disagree with me).
You cannot prove god does exists.
The one thing we can do, is prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Bible (or the quran, or the illiad, etc...) is a work of man.
I challenge anyone to prove, using the scientific method, that it is divinely inspiried.
Just to be clear... "using the scientific method" means you cannot cite where the bible says it's divinely inspired as evidence that it's divinely inspired.
Ryan Anderson at 5:32PM on Dec 31st 2007
57. 40. This is amusing, why do atheists presume to know more about the bible than Christians? =D
I just want to point out ... what Rita does or doesn't know about the bible doesn't matter, from a Christian perspective. From an atheist's perspective, its gold, because you can pervert the Word and she might not be as well studied as some other Christians. ;) From a CHRISTIAN perspective (pay attention, atheists) it doesn't matter. Rita is saved. She's going to heaven. You're not (if you were to die right now in your sin, that is). That's the way it goes.
She humbled herself, made a decision for Christ, and now she will be in paradise forever with the LORD. It honestly does not matter if she ever cracks open the bible and reads a single word, because the bible says, she will be saved. Its funny though that you atheists would "preach" at her to read the bible, "not just passages that your preacher picks out for you." Obviously, as atheists you read the bible with an agenda, to pick out perceived contradictions, because you're reading something you can never understand, BECAUSE you are an atheist. For a Christian to read the bible, they will be edified; for an atheist, he will be stupefied.
If you atheists are so learned and studied in the bible, someone please paste what the bible says about non-believers who read its content? I'm curious if anyone even has a clue about that, and if so, what you think about what the BIBLE has to say on this matter?
Frank, what you stated is not only completely untrue, but actually completely contradicts the very ESSENCE and CORE of Christianity. You have absolutely no scriptural basis for anything you posted. It would appear that you are another (typical) atheist who argues what you do not understand. To argue against Christianity and against the bible, you must first study and understand it. Doesn't that just make logical sense to you? This would be like me going up to a physicist and arguing about quantum mechanics. I can easily misquote a bunch of books and start babbling about a few tidbits I read here and there, but the fact is that I (much like you, here, now, at this very moment) would have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about and am just arguing for argument's sake.
"Read the very end of Revelations and again, you will see that every word of the Bible, including the Old Testament, is to stand forever. That includes every twisted, barbaric law of the OT." Clearly, you have not studied the new testament and know very little about Christianity to make this statement.
Any Christian who studies the bible knows that the ten commandments are null and void! Even the old testament states that they are, in essence, null and void. Those ten commandments are what is keeping you, Frank, from entering the kingdom of God. If you could keep all ten of those commandments on your own, you could be in heaven for eternity. Compare those commandments to your life and you will see that you haven't kept them, that's because you're incapable, you are a sinner. God already knew this, as the bible says in the old and new testament, "There is none who does good, No, not one." You aren't worthy to enter heaven and you never will be. This is why Jesus had to die, because He is perfect and sinless, and He had to take on all of your iniquity so that you could stand before the Father clean and without sin, covered by His precious blood.
Emily at 4:57PM on Dec 31st 2007
--------------------------------------------------
Everything you just stated is complete, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou rhetoric. Whatever you believe - you're going to believe regardless of whatever fact, evidence, scripture etc. is placed before you.
Since you make yourself out to be a biblical scholar then please cite any - ANY - biblical scripture to support ANYTHING you just stated. Especially the statement about the Ten Commandments being null and void. Please, please cite what chapter and verse that attests to the Ten Commandments or the Old Testament as being "null and void". That seems to be your personal revelation, but in reality, and, according to scripture in Matthew and Luke, you are committing blasphemy.
Cite the scripture, chapter and verse. It should be easy for you, right?
Frank at 5:34PM on Dec 31st 2007
58. You know, there is a great deal of science to disprove the theory of evolution (i.e., the human eye, flagellum) but many atheists don't want to acknowledge any of it, because it might prove the bible to be true, which would make the Christian God real.
__________________
Emily, the absence of evidence supporting one theory does not render another valid. Why don't you acknowledge that beliefs can never be verified via the scientific method, drop the "the bible is true" language and let the rest of us enjoy our freedom NOT to believe whatever it is you believe. That way, we can co-exist peacefully and start focusing on the matters that affect all of us NOW.
emma at 5:35PM on Dec 31st 2007
59. jesus said we live under the law, UnObservant. Do you not believe jesus' words?
Knight_of_BAAWA at 5:40PM on Dec 31st 2007
60. Yes, Emily, atheists are stupified when they read the bible. Stupified is when your brain turns to mush, and you are bewildered. To turn stupid is to be stupified. Stupified is to blunt the faculty of perception. That is surely what happens when I open the bible. I am thrown into stupification. That is the only credible explanation I can come up with for ANYONE buying the bullshit that is in the bible.
Nancy at 5:42PM on Dec 31st 2007